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Old 09-04-2004, 04:41 PM   #1
Matt Monson
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Default Ignition woes...

Well,
yesterday as I was finishing up getting the needed wiring out of the WRX harness I noticed that their are two connectors for the ignitor. I had been doing this kind of blindly because I lost my digital FSM for the GC/GF WRX and only had the pinouts and wiring to work from. Anyways, long story short, I realized that the USDM ignitor is not compatible with the EJ20G's coil on plug ignition. I have a WTB thread posted in the classifiieds for an ignitor, but am open to other cost effective solutions. I am using a 1994 JDM WRX ECU for this conversion...

As a side note, if I can work this out, the car will be running by the end of the week. The wiring is about 2/3 done and the engine is back in the car and all hooked up...
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Old 09-07-2004, 12:23 PM   #2
Jaxx
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sent you the FSM
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Old 09-08-2004, 12:08 PM   #3
Matt Monson
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Jaxx you rock.
So no one here has encountered this issue before??? I have had several suggestions made on other boards, but want to know if anyone has actually made it work
1. Splice the wires from the USDM 2 channel ignitor and feed them to the ECU
2. Run 2 USDM 2 channel ignitors parallel.
3. Run an SVX 6 channel ignitor off of only the needed 4 channels.

Anyone try any of these on a coil on plug ignition?
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Old 09-08-2004, 03:10 PM   #4
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is is a wasted spark or not?
i know of a place that sells used jdm wrx ignitors for our motor .. but they recomended aftermarket ignitors instead .. may also try talking to mr crawford ..or these guys http://www.outbackmotors.com/

iirc they recomended a msd unit ?
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Old 09-08-2004, 04:53 PM   #5
Matt Monson
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It is not a wasted spark. It is the coil on plug ignition...

I am selling this thing as soon as it is finished, so I am looking for the most cost effective solution to this. A used WRX ignitor would be my first $$$ choice as I don't have the money to throw at an msd unit.
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Old 09-08-2004, 05:09 PM   #6
Matt Monson
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called outback motors, they dont' stock them. Any other thoughts?
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Old 09-08-2004, 05:59 PM   #7
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Hey Matt,

I guess I'm not quite sure what the problem is. You have the 94 ECU, and you have the 94 ignition setup. Why can't you get it to work as stock?

As for alternatives, you should be able to use a US coil igniter pack and wire 2 of the ignitor channels together for wastespark goodness. Unless Subaru has changed the type of ignitor used, there really isn't a reason this won't work (electrically speaking). For reference, a new RS ignitor is ~$130.

You should check on scoobynet. I know the UK guys replace the COP system with a certain bosch ignitor from AUS and some coil pack that I don't remember (I'm full of help huh?). You could ask there.

-Rob
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Old 09-08-2004, 06:00 PM   #8
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they used to, bummer .. i will give the straight here.. i don't 100% understand how they work so i am of little help

the important part of the FSM


can any one post the same for a usdm wrx ignitor?

Last edited by Jaxx; 09-08-2004 at 06:10 PM.
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Old 09-08-2004, 06:13 PM   #9
Matt Monson
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OK,
Ignition 101...

USDM Legacy and Impreza(non-wrx) models use a wasted spark ignition. This uses a coil pack mounted on top of the manifold that generates the spark. As a result, the ignitor is a 2 channel ignitor that feeds power to 2 cylinders through each channel to generate the spark in the cylinder in question. Since the coil pack is firing extra times beyond the needed spark, thus the term wasted spark ignition

The old JDM Legacy and Impreza turbo models use a coil on plug igntion, just like the modern USDM WRX's do. Each individual spark plug gets it's own coil. This uses a 4 channel ignitor that has a 1-1 relationship with each cylinder. 1 channel, one coil and one spark per cylinder.

I have a USDM 2 channel ignitor in my car. My ECU and wiring harness expect a 4 channel ignitor. Having chewed on it for the afternoon, I don't want to mess with the wasted spark conversion. I need to find a 4 channel ignitor that will work or go the SVX route and just leave 2 channels unused...
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Old 09-08-2004, 06:16 PM   #10
Matt Monson
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Jaxx,
I didn't see that diagram before I started writing my response above. That is the same diagram I have and like it suggests, I have 2 connectors(B12 and B27) on the WRX wiring harness that I patched in to work with with respect to wiring. I do have a 2002 USDM WRX FSM at home that I have looked at. It is also a coil on plug ignition, but from what I have read, they have changed the design once again and use single channel ignitors built into the coil and no longer use a remotely mounted 4 channel ignitor...
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Old 09-08-2004, 06:18 PM   #11
Matt Monson
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'73 914 and 2012 BRZ

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob
Hey Matt,

I guess I'm not quite sure what the problem is. You have the 94 ECU, and you have the 94 ignition setup. Why can't you get it to work as stock?
-Rob
Because I don't have the ignitor!!! I think part of the confusion here is that the coil pack and the ignitor are NOT the same thing.
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Old 09-09-2004, 12:32 AM   #12
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how about using 2 dual channel ignitors?
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Old 09-09-2004, 11:25 AM   #13
rob
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oops, yeah I was assuming the ignitor was built in. I can get the part # off the one on my clip if that helps.

Here is the for the '02 US WRX;
http://home.comcast.net/~r.files/WRX...tor_wiring.jpg

Curious why you passed on the WS conversion?

-Rob
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Old 09-10-2004, 12:59 PM   #14
Matt Monson
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob

Curious why you passed on the WS conversion?

-Rob
too much wiring. I am aiming for simplicity here.

The 2 2 channel ignitors in series solution has been suggested elsewhere. This may be the route I go. But I actually think modifying the harness to run the single SVX 6 channel ignitor using only 4 channels may be a cleaner route. I can use the JDM harness then, which already has enough wires and is already connected coils on the engine and connected to the ECU, and just change the connectors.
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Old 09-10-2004, 04:17 PM   #15
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in parallel not serial right SVX sounds like it shoudl be fine
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Old 09-11-2004, 06:55 PM   #16
Matt Monson
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Rob,
That part number would be help. I have talked to a couple of importers that are checking for me. But I may have to get a new one through SOA, and the part number would make that possible.

I priced the SVX one at the junkyard yesterday. $150 frickin dollars. I know I can do better than that or I will go new...

p.s. The wiring is done. I am dying to turn this thing over!!!
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Old 09-12-2004, 01:45 AM   #17
rob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson
Rob,
That part number would be help. I have talked to a couple of importers that are checking for me. But I may have to get a new one through SOA, and the part number would make that possible.

I priced the SVX one at the junkyard yesterday. $150 frickin dollars. I know I can do better than that or I will go new...

p.s. The wiring is done. I am dying to turn this thing over!!!
ok. I'll see if I can pull it tomorrow. Can you give me a headstart on where it's located?

-Rob
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Old 09-13-2004, 01:11 PM   #18
Matt Monson
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RH side near the MAF sensor and boost control solenoid. It should be the only sensor over there that has two connectors running from it. IIRC, one is a 5 pin and the other is a 4 pin...
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Old 09-15-2004, 01:19 AM   #19
rob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson
RH side near the MAF sensor and boost control solenoid. It should be the only sensor over there that has two connectors running from it. IIRC, one is a 5 pin and the other is a 4 pin...
Wow, that was a little bugger to find. It's mounted to the backside of the bracket for the solenoid against the fender. I don't know how much it's going to help you though. I couldn't get a usuable subaru part # off of it.

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Old 09-15-2004, 12:55 PM   #20
Matt Monson
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That's it. And if I am not mistaken, the DO5404 should be enough for Subaru to look it up...
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Old 09-15-2004, 01:15 PM   #21
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I had one of these blow up also. I ended up bypassing the igniter and put on the coil packs from the latest Wrx (EJ207).

Part # for the ignitor is 22438AA110 . Thats for the 93-96 EJ20G.
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Old 09-16-2004, 12:49 PM   #22
Matt Monson
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verIII,
Don't those run like $300 each x4!!! I am looking for the cheapest reliable solution to get it running so I can sell it. But thank you for the PN...
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Old 09-16-2004, 01:15 PM   #23
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I got a set from a wrecker which I know is rare. It was the lesser of both evils . Trying to source out the JDM ignitor or coil packs that is not available in North America . At least the USDM Wrx ones were readily available.
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Old 09-16-2004, 01:22 PM   #24
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well from diagram above it woudl be just one ..

FWIW i have 4 coils if any one wants them i am not using them with the tec
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Old 09-16-2004, 02:22 PM   #25
Matt Monson
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Jaxx,
The '02+ USDM WRX has the ignitor built into the individual coils. Otherwise I would have purchased a USDM ignitor a week ago.

I will let you know if I need some coils. Until I turn it over, I have no idea if I have any bad coils. Impatiently waiting...
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