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Old 02-21-2005, 04:14 PM   #1
DarthChicken
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2006 ariel atom
wrb/bbs gold frame

Default hydra autotune - jpgs of it in action

I've seen enough questions about "how well does the autotune work", so I figured I could put some screenshots up for everybody.

Yesterday, Perrin, myself and Gixxerjb went on a fun run (or as Gixxer calls them, a "rip"... a funrun sounds too pansy for him ). A rip it was... no doubt about that.

Anyway, I started off with a base map that I'd worked up the night before. I decided that I wanted to run my car a bit leaner through the midrange (about .5 A/F leaner) and top end (about .3 leaner), so I change the A/F chart, made some guestimates, and ended up with this map



After driving for about 45 minutes, the map looked like this



Every so often (when we'd stop for breaks) I'd upload the map, save it off, and download it back to the hydra. Here's what they looked like





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Old 02-21-2005, 04:16 PM   #2
DarthChicken
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At the end of the day, the map looked like this



I then went home, and did some cleanup work on it. The easiest way is by looking at the 3d chart, and rotating it so you can see where the odd low and high spots are. Here's an example



This is with the autotune rate set at 16. IMO, anything faster than that, and the map gets too much taken out at one time, and it gets really messy. You can't tell what its trying to do
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Old 02-21-2005, 04:19 PM   #3
DarthChicken
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Hopefully this helps some people understand the limitations of the autotune. It works great, but while you're doing this, I DID get some knock. I pulled out quite a bit of fuel though, so thats to be expected. I have my knock settings set very conservative for this sort of tuning though, so it immediately starts pulling partial degrees of timing out before any harm is done.
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Old 02-21-2005, 07:58 PM   #4
jblaine
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Cool
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Old 02-21-2005, 08:36 PM   #5
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Darthchicken,

Thanks for posting that. If you look closely you can see the "trench" where the autotune was removing fuel to hit your new target. Looks to me like you were going pretty fast.

It doesn't look like you're hitting full boost very early though....must be that big old turbo I also see the "hump" around 2500-3000 rpm which I notice on most of the very large turbocharged setups. Iím seeing it most pronounced with +60 lbs compressors and it becomes less pronounced the smaller the compressor.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
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Old 02-21-2005, 10:16 PM   #6
DarthChicken
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Yes, thank you for confirming today that my car is acting "normal" with that 2800rpm hump (that's where mine is at). As I said earlier today to you, I thought for a long time there was something wrong with my throttle pump settings

You can also see where this turbo starts running out of breath, at 5800-6000rpm, as the fuel drops off pretty quickly.

I was getting full boost around 4200rpm in 4th when I started, that's improved a bit with the "work" that occured yesterday. Gotta love this kind of "work" though - when my headers get back from the ceramic guys, I'll be doing some more "work". The hope is to open things up a bit on the top end, otherwise I'll be turning this turbo and putting a larger exhaust housing on it
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Old 02-22-2005, 08:10 PM   #7
Element Tuning
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4200 rpm is not bad at all actually.

The right size exhaust housing makes all the difference in the world on pump gas but it wonít be as responsive which can take the ďfunĒ out of a street car. The increased power and reliability far out way the negatives if you're a greedy power monger like me but unfortunately it will increase lag by about 300-400 rpm. Itís always better to go with a larger exhaust housing if youíre seeking more power than it is to push a small housing beyond its ďreliableĒ limit.

By the way the latest 2.17 software has smoothing features, short cut keys, block edit, block entry, and easier navigation of the 3D map for editing. You must get the hardware reflashed (2.14 compatible but not 2.12) however to use it while online tuning.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
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Old 02-22-2005, 08:46 PM   #8
DarthChicken
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Where can you get that software? I haven't found a place to download it anyplace.

Also, does the ECU still have to be sent back to hydra to be reflashed to the newest firmware, or do you have that ability now? It would be great to be able to drive my car up to Seattle for the dyno day, and have you just plug in and flash through the serial port. Or am I dreaming?

(if they don't provide the commercial tuners with that ability, at some point you could conceivably end up tuning 3 or 4 different versions, with their own "features")
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Old 02-22-2005, 09:35 PM   #9
SilverSurfer04STi
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Speaking of dyno days (sorry to threadjack) I heard that Phil is doing a dyno day at Godspeed sometime soon. Is this true Phil? If so, WHEN???
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Old 02-22-2005, 11:04 PM   #10
offset
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSurfer04STi
Speaking of dyno days (sorry to threadjack) I heard that Phil is doing a dyno day at Godspeed sometime soon. Is this true Phil? If so, WHEN???
I would so much like to know this as well. Dayton is a little far from Godspeed, but it would be well worth the drive to dyno my new Hydra with Phil there.

offset
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Old 02-23-2005, 08:30 AM   #11
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Exactly. I can drive 5 hours for good tuning...
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Old 02-23-2005, 10:48 AM   #12
Element Tuning
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Yes, I will be at Godspeed tuning at the end of March. Right now itís tentatively scheduled for March 25th and 26th but I believe both days are already full. At this point getting an Element Hydra by then will be the difficult part but if you place your order through Dan, he may add another day to my trip.

Iíll try to post up the new software today sometime at www.elementtuning.com. At this point I do not have the ability to hard code the processors so it will have to be sent to Hydra EMS for a reflash.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
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Old 02-23-2005, 12:38 PM   #13
SilverSurfer04STi
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So the 25th and the 26th are already full. Chripes.
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Old 02-23-2005, 12:48 PM   #14
4830DeuceWRX
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So far over my head...good thing i didnt tune my car
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Old 04-26-2005, 05:19 PM   #15
jblaine
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I have a nice hump via autotune from 2800-3000 too, on a WRX stock turbo no less. What causes this?
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Old 04-26-2005, 06:09 PM   #16
DarthChicken
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At first I thought it had something to do with throttle pump, but then I remembered having a lean issue at 3000rpm with the big maf when I was first learning how to tune one of those. I think the bigmaf just causes the lean issue to show itself a bit better.

My guess is something with the heads or cams. Some sort of weird airflow "thing" happening at that RPM.
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Old 04-26-2005, 06:42 PM   #17
offset
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What kind of headers do you have again? And I would assume stock cams, correct.

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Old 04-26-2005, 07:06 PM   #18
DarthChicken
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For me, V7 heads and cams, including AVCS. I've ended up with this same curve with both the stock headers, and the GTSPEC2 copy I have on now.

Doesn't seem to be turbo dependent, injector dependent, intake dependent, engine dependent, header dependent, cam, head.. etc...
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:09 PM   #19
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Stock cams, heads, exhaust manifold, intake manifold...
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