Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday April 18, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-04-2005, 08:45 PM   #1
Guru Imakuni
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 58773
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Western MA
Default Lightweight pulley info please

Right now I'm looking at a Perrin Lightweight Crank Pulley (which I believe I could get for $98 shipped with a coupon) and an Agency Power Lightweight Crank Pulley for $99 shipped.

It doesn't mention it on the RalliTek site but by visiting this other site you can see that the Agency pulley weighs 1.1lbs where as the Perrin weighs 1.2lbs. It's all about weight, but with one tenth of a pound is it negligible? It doesn't add up either when it says the Perrin is more than 4lbs lighter than stock (which I'm sure they rounded down to the nearest whole number) but apparently the Agency is 8lbs lighter than stock? So does anyone know the weight of the stock pulley? I'm getting a weight difference between 5.2lbs up to 9.1lbs!

Is Agency Power just as good as Perrin too? The Agency is slightly lighter but I think the Perrin would hold a bigger resale value. Or does that not even matter because it will work with everything from a 2.5RS engine to an EJ20 so I'd never even need to sell it if I do a swap down the road? Thanks!
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Guru Imakuni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2005, 10:07 PM   #2
BlkTS02
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 50142
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: West TN
Vehicle:
2002 2.5TS
MBP

Default

Search for Mr. Josh pulley. You will not be dissapointed.

I held both the Mr. Josh and perrin in my hands side by side. I can honestly say I think the Mr. Josh is manufactured a little better.

1.2 v 1.1 lbs. Is that extra .1 lbs worth the $25 difference? IMHO no.
BlkTS02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2005, 10:46 PM   #3
tora
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 5851
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:
09 Forester XT
+ NA Miata

Default

Keep in mind that a pulley will actually do little to nothing for your car. Despite lots of "dyno tests" on Subies you might be lucky to gain "release" 1hp only in first gear.
Waste o' money IMO unles you want your engine bay to look perty.
tora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2005, 11:02 PM   #4
BlkTS02
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 50142
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: West TN
Vehicle:
2002 2.5TS
MBP

Default

tora, have you driven a car with one?

I found it makes the engine more responsive to throttle inputs and helps improve clutch feel and action.
BlkTS02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2005, 11:07 PM   #5
Guru Imakuni
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 58773
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Western MA
Default

BlkTS02, the extra .1 lb off would only be $1 more for me. It was just the quality I was worrying about but you answered my question in a way.

Thanks for the info tora. I wasn't expecting much out of it but it's one of the few NA mods that will fit my budget (so obviously turbo is out of the question).

I am a bit confused though. After looking up the Mr. Josh Pulley it looks like it got fantastic reviews. On Mr. Josh's site it says an average gain of 8 whp! I'm getting conflicting statements though. Eight whp seems ridiculous but is it really only like 1 hp?
Guru Imakuni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2005, 11:11 PM   #6
Tim Sanderson
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6486
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: S.E. wisconsin
Vehicle:
00 Impreza 2.5 RS
Blue Ridge Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlkTS02
tora, have you driven a car with one?

I found it makes the engine more responsive to throttle inputs and helps improve clutch feel and action.
Finding a car with a light weight pulley as it's only mod to test drive and compare is not likely.

If a lightened flywheel makes a difference, then a lightened pulley should too.
Tim Sanderson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2005, 11:12 PM   #7
tora
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 5851
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:
09 Forester XT
+ NA Miata

Default

I will try to find a link to a thread about it, most of the dyno results have many other factors not related to the pulleys.
tora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2005, 11:14 PM   #8
tora
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 5851
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:
09 Forester XT
+ NA Miata

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Sanderson
Finding a car with a light weight pulley as it's only mod to test drive and compare is not likely.

If a lightened flywheel makes a difference, then a lightened pulley should too.
Are you serious? Can you please provide some reason why the two are comparible? Huge weight difference, size difference, connection to the motor difference etc.

And yes, I had one on my RS. Asides from an intake it was the only mod on the car. It revved faster at idle, first felt a slight smoother gain nothing beyond that. If you can show me hard evidence that it makes ANY difference on our 2.5 I'd love to see it.

EDIT: Read this thread (scroll down...maybe page 2) if you want some mathematical info.. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=697173
tora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2005, 11:25 PM   #9
BlkTS02
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 50142
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: West TN
Vehicle:
2002 2.5TS
MBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tora
Are you serious? Can you please provide some reason why the two are comparible? Huge weight difference, size difference, connection to the motor difference etc.
Decrease of rotating mass.
BlkTS02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2005, 11:35 PM   #10
tora
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 5851
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:
09 Forester XT
+ NA Miata

Default

Read the thread, the amount of mass lost, and the rotational velocity, and the actual straing that it would put on the engine, and the distance of the weight from the center point, it all adds up to be so minimal that the gains are next to nothing. It's a feel good mod because when you are at idle it rev's more responsively, but under stress it does hardly a thing, especially once you are out of first gear. Read ANDYS responses. The guy is a physics/math whiz...and if you want to arge that logic go for it.
tora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2005, 11:46 PM   #11
Tim Sanderson
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6486
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: S.E. wisconsin
Vehicle:
00 Impreza 2.5 RS
Blue Ridge Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tora
Are you serious? Can you please provide some reason why the two are comparible? Huge weight difference, size difference, connection to the motor difference etc.

And yes, I had one on my RS. Asides from an intake it was the only mod on the car. It revved faster at idle, first felt a slight smoother gain nothing beyond that. If you can show me hard evidence that it makes ANY difference on our 2.5 I'd love to see it.

EDIT: Read this thread (scroll down...maybe page 2) if you want some mathematical info.. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=697173
Well let's calm down a notch.

No, I can't provide proof. I must be and idiot.

I fully and completely retract my last threads statement And apoligize for making such a ludicrous and unfounded statement. Please ignore my statement so as not to believe it or be swayed in any way shape or fashion into thinking that it may positively affect your vehicles performance. If anyone should read my statement and find themselves thinking that perhaps they might have been affected by it I cannot be held responsible for their letdown when they find out that I may have been wrong.

Please forgive me, I am truly ingorant.
Tim Sanderson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2005, 11:49 PM   #12
BlkTS02
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 50142
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: West TN
Vehicle:
2002 2.5TS
MBP

Default

You asked "...why the two are comparable", I answered it.

I agree that it's mostly (if not totally) a "feel" mod. Well, I happen to like the feel it gives to my car.

I don't know about you, but I spend alot more time pulling away from stoplights and driving through traffic than redlining 4th on a track (or off track). So if something for relatively little money will improve the drivability of a car, I'll do it.
BlkTS02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2005, 11:52 PM   #13
Guru Imakuni
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 58773
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Western MA
Default

Seems like it's split down the middle. I don't have money to start building up exhaust, cams, etc. so I was looking at the pulley to get a litle more oomph at but even if I made 8 whp off of one I may not even notice it. Unfortunately the NA engines can be a lot harder to work with and for the money I'd have to go turbo. That's still a long ways away though.

I should probably stop looking at power and more into the suspension. I wonder where $100 can get me...

Thanks for the info anyhow guys.
Guru Imakuni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2005, 12:11 AM   #14
t3hWIT
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 58779
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: **** Town
Vehicle:
95 STi RA (rhd)
98 Tacoma (300k Club)

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Sanderson
Well let's calm down a notch.

No, I can't provide proof. I must be and idiot.

I fully and completely retract my last threads statement And apoligize for making such a ludicrous and unfounded statement. Please ignore my statement so as not to believe it or be swayed in any way shape or fashion into thinking that it may positively affect your vehicles performance. If anyone should read my statement and find themselves thinking that perhaps they might have been affected by it I cannot be held responsible for their letdown when they find out that I may have been wrong.

Please forgive me, I am truly ingorant.
smartarse

how about we try this mod, as it will allow you to rev higher with the momentum of the following trick.


it might b a lil easier to just try this in your head


remove the radiator fans. locate some duct tape and a brick. tape the brick to the pulley. now start the car and rev the shiz outta it.

didnt work too good, eh?

well, one the tape prolly wouldnt hold. two, the car would rev like crap.

why?

because its added weight. those couple pounds add up when the part starts spinning, weighing down the crank, which uses more power to turn that heavy part that could be better used turning the wheels, therefore making the car rev slower.

nah nah. you really want a gain? remove the pulley entirely. not only do you remove the weight, but you also remove those pesky excessories. then you'll really notice some gains and easier revving.



Tora, use some common sense. Unorthodox is in buisness for a reason. call them. they'll straighten things out.
t3hWIT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2005, 12:14 AM   #15
t3hWIT
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 58779
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: **** Town
Vehicle:
95 STi RA (rhd)
98 Tacoma (300k Club)

Default

one last thought. its not always about horsepower. in this case, try throttle response.

my carbon fiber hood didnt do anything for the cars output. it did however slightly decrease my times on the straight and liven the car up around the turns.
t3hWIT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2005, 12:18 AM   #16
mbroadhe
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 71215
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lat.- 40.69N Long.- 75.22W
Vehicle:
2001 Forester

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru Imakuni
I should probably stop looking at power and more into the suspension. I wonder where $100 can get me...

Thanks for the info anyhow guys.
Two words : Rear Swaybar
I put a 20mm RSB off a 2002 WRX on the Forester and it has been one of the "best bang for the bucks" mod I have done.
mbroadhe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2005, 12:22 AM   #17
tora
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 5851
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:
09 Forester XT
+ NA Miata

Default

Did you read the thread I linked to yoursystemishellalouderthanmine? They are in business because for some cars the pulley does in fact make some noticeable improvements. There are a LOT of products on the market that do little to nothing for your car but people make money off them. Even the turbonator or whatever. Just because someone makes money off it I'm supposed to believe it works? Show me a dyno run where ONLY a crank pulley was used and made large gains on a 2.5 NA with NO other factors (change in timing, air.fuel mixture etc). I've talked to companies that make pulleys and NONE have a logical explanation for how there pulley makes power for a EJ25. You loose mass so......you gain power. ok, but how? And to compare it to a flywheel is apples and oranges, that's like comparing the flywheel to a regular wheel. Granted, the loss of weight benefits the vehicle but how it does so is very different and changes very different characteristics of the car. No one has come up with anything logical for the pulley and how it affects the vehicle. i post a link to a thread with a very logical/scientific explanation and no one seems to take the time to read it. The guy who posted this thread was asking for info on the pulley, I would like to provide him with something better than "I have one and my car feels fastar!".

Oh, and MYSYSTEMZLOUDAR, it's not EXCESSORIES, it's ACCESSORIES! werd to yo mama and her system.
tora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2005, 12:24 AM   #18
tora
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 5851
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Vancouver
Vehicle:
09 Forester XT
+ NA Miata

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbroadhe
Two words : Rear Swaybar
I put a 20mm RSB off a 2002 WRX on the Forester and it has been one of the "best bang for the bucks" mod I have done.
Thank you, a much better use for your Hundie.
Or try Grp.N engine or tranny mounts. They won't make your car fasTar but it will feel a lot better. Or trya free mod, lose some weight out of your car like your rear seats, spare tire and jack etc etc. That will actually make MORE difference than the pulley and it costs you NOTHING.
tora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2005, 09:09 AM   #19
t3hWIT
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 58779
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: **** Town
Vehicle:
95 STi RA (rhd)
98 Tacoma (300k Club)

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tora
Oh, and MYSYSTEMZLOUDAR, it's not EXCESSORIES, it's ACCESSORIES! werd to yo mama and her system.
wow that was lame. i remember the last time i took offense to those "yo mama" jokes. i was like... 12.
t3hWIT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2005, 10:26 AM   #20
pdi180
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 77540
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Omaha NE
Vehicle:
2002 Legacy L Sedan
Silver

Default

Slightly going off (or back to) topic... If you are looking to spend a lot less, check the classifieds, Perrin's usually go for about 80 and Mr Josh go for about 50.

Also, there is a group buy going on for a lightened crank pulley for 80 shipped new. I cannot recal the brand, but I found that the best deals can usually be found right here and not necessarily off another website.
pdi180 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2005, 11:29 AM   #21
BlkTS02
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 50142
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: West TN
Vehicle:
2002 2.5TS
MBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru Imakuni
I should probably stop looking at power and more into the suspension. I wonder where $100 can get me...
Steering rack bushings.

$30 from most places. I'd put it right up there with a bigger rear sway bar for "bang for the buck" mods.

But that's compared to a take-off OEM 20mm RSB. Considering most aftermarket RSB's are somewhere around $150 minimum, then it's easily the most cost effective mod.
BlkTS02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2005, 11:35 AM   #22
BlkTS02
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 50142
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: West TN
Vehicle:
2002 2.5TS
MBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tora
Show me a dyno run where ONLY a crank pulley was used and made large gains on a 2.5 NA with NO other factors (change in timing, air.fuel mixture etc).
Show me a dyno graph where any mod other than an engine swap or turbo kit install makes "large gains on a 2.5 NA with no other factors."

BTW, you're not going to change anyones point of view by insulting them.
BlkTS02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2005, 12:05 PM   #23
Guru Imakuni
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 58773
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Western MA
Default

mbroadhe, I already have a WRX (sedan) RSB installed. I didn't notice much if anything from it. I was kind of pissed too. Got it for $50 and $10 shipping. The next day I saw a "WTB: RSB" thread. Guy got an STi RSB for $50 shipped!

BlkTS02, I'll look into steering rack bushings.

tora, would WRX engine mounts offer me anything? Or would it just make things worse?

Pulleys may be a mod that gives up more power the more mods you have. Kind of like you'll get more power if you get an Accessport and then an exhaust rather than exhaust first.
Guru Imakuni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2005, 12:32 PM   #24
jeisen
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 27258
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Towaco, NJ
Vehicle:
who dat be dat was?

Default

I still believe tires are the best bang for the buck upgrade out there. Spend an extra $100 on tires and you might really see some gains. Also it might not be the case for everyone, but if one were to lose 10lb in the gut or butt, It might give as much gain as a pulley, etc. Instead of looking for cheap little mods that might not do anything, I would reccomend you just save your money and when you have enough get the parts that you really want.
jeisen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2005, 09:22 PM   #25
SpeedbeeqS
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 26664
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The UC, Utah
Vehicle:
1999 Impreza 2.5 RS

Default

Does a flywheel actually make a gain in power? No. Does a pulley give it more horsepower? No. They make it accelerate quicker, and that is all.
SpeedbeeqS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Under pulley VS Lightweight Pulley Siphoyn North West Impreza Club Forum -- NWIC 16 11-10-2008 05:52 PM
Perrin lightweight pulley VS Cobb pulley? Fab's STI Newbies & FAQs 29 09-25-2007 02:15 PM
WTB/WTT: Underdrive Alternator pulley (&belt?) or lightweight pulley trade tooocool49723 Private 'Wanted' Classifieds 1 01-06-2005 05:25 PM
Underdrive Pulleys/Lightweight Pulleys UGotBoost? Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 3 10-22-2003 10:32 AM
STi Lightweight Pulleys Piyoscuby Vancouver Impreza Club Forum -- VIC 9 05-03-2001 12:10 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.