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Old 03-13-2005, 09:25 PM   #1
jamesfacts
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Lightbulb Anyone running water injection NA?

I'm planning on a EJ20K swap in the not-to distant future, and when I do it, I'll definitely be adding a water injection setup.

This got me to thinking... is there any benefit to adding to W/I while I'm still NA? I might as well drop the coin now, and enjoy it for longer, right?

Thanks,
James
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Old 03-14-2005, 02:57 PM   #2
jamesfacts
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Almost 50 views... no response? C'mon, someone must like the idea of running near-race gas for hardly anything.
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Old 03-14-2005, 03:24 PM   #3
mamiyarz67
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i thought water injection was to quelche high temp systems (ie Big Turbos) and therefore have nil-effects to us cold TBI NA users
no?
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Old 03-14-2005, 04:01 PM   #4
powerlabs
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Back when I had my J tube intake the air filter was right under one of the hood vents and when it rained hard my car would idle like crap, lose power and stall. Some times it wouldn't even start. How is that for water injection?
J/K. The reason it does that is because water hitting the MAF will make it think your car is injesting the maximum amount of air possible and run ultra rich. On a serious note though, I don't see how water injection would benefit a stock N/A motor. Maybe if you had 12:1 compression you could use it to cool the intake charge and avoid detonation, but even then you might be looking at 3 - 5HP increase over stock. Not worth it IMHO.
If you are going through the trouble, why not try NITROUS injection?
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Old 03-14-2005, 05:55 PM   #5
jamesfacts
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Why would water hit the MAF? I'm talking about a TB injected spray. I don't think it would be that difficult to setup.

I'm under the impression that using WI is equivent to a 5-10 octane boost. Seems to me that would be useful for any car.
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Old 03-14-2005, 06:01 PM   #6
Storm
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W/I while not forcing induction is not a good idea. The only thing you might accomplish is steam cleaning your combustion chamber.

+5-10 octane points doesn't matter as long as water is still not flammable last time I checked. That is just it's equivilant resistance to detonation.


Jay Storm

Last edited by Storm; 03-14-2005 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 03-14-2005, 08:06 PM   #7
powerlabs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by americanyouth
Why would water hit the MAF? I'm talking about a TB injected spray. I don't think it would be that difficult to setup.

I'm under the impression that using WI is equivent to a 5-10 octane boost. Seems to me that would be useful for any car.
Water hit my MAF because it came in through my filter. I said that as a joke; it was not relevant to the topic. The part that was relevant was saying that the car does not need it to prevent detonation, and for that reason it will do absolutely nothing for power. Increasing octane into infinity on a car that does not need any more than 85 octane will net first a zero increase of power, then a DECREASE in power as higher octane fuels are harder to ignite and slower burning. This has been discussed before with some ignoramus who put leaded racing gas on his near stock 2.5RS and said "Oh my god, it flies". I kindly pointed out that the only reason why he felt he was flying is because his wallet was $5/gallon lighter. The weight reduction must have made it accelerate more, and it will accelerate even better when he lightens his wallet some more for 2 new oxygen sensors and a new catalytic converter that got clogged up by lead.
Rising octane without increasing boost, compression, or ignition timing: Pointless waste of time and money. Thus my suggestion that you should only consider it if you were running a 12:1 compression, highly advanced ignition timing race engine. Then you might be looking at no more then 10HP increase from those two mods alone.
But hey, its your time and money; if you do it make sure to get 2 dyno graphs (with and without injection, all else the same). I would love to read about it, and would like it even more if you could prove me wrong.
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Old 03-14-2005, 11:50 PM   #8
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Anyone know if premium gas + ECU reset in that NA motor results in more power on the dyno or G-tek? If it does, WI is likely to help. If not, it probably won't. My other NA car does run stronger on premium (used to, and would again if I replaced the knock sensor).

Anyway if the car runs more advanced timing with premium gas + ECU reset, it will probably do the same with WI. If it doesn't advance the timing to compensate, I think you will have less power. From what I've read, water/alcohol mix is better for power.

More here

Last edited by davidji; 03-14-2005 at 11:58 PM.
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Old 03-15-2005, 12:00 PM   #9
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I believe it was I-Speed that said that going from 87 to 89 yielded some marginal gain. So maybe you could run 87HP with water injection and gain 1-2HP? Not worth it IMHO. I'd rather just run 89. I-Speed also said that going higher than 89 made no difference, and the gains from running 89 are hardly even worth the extra cost.
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Old 03-15-2005, 12:39 PM   #10
jamesfacts
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Hmmm. Thats a little dissapointing. Jay, Powerlabs, I was planning on using an ITC as well (probably should have mentioned that). Doesn't that sound like it should be making more power?

Thanks for the link DAvid, looks like I've got some research to do.
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Old 03-15-2005, 12:43 PM   #11
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My understanding from watching and talking to guys with water injection is that from turbos producing so much airflow in that it creates a lot of heat from the combustion and pinging will occur. However, water injection adds a small amount of water through the fuel injectors (?) I think and when it is combined with the large amount of compressed air, it creates a cooler combustion. This reduces pinging and the need for high octane fuel (allowing guys to run on pump with no race gas to get high boost). On an NA car I bet this would suck unless you had a compression of 13+:1. I don't even know that it would work then either. It is not a bad idea, I mean the theory is sound in a sense, but theory and practice have proven to be different in many situations.
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Old 03-15-2005, 02:49 PM   #12
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had it on my car for about 10k. no real difference. CEL came on twice after installed, and never once before. car passed e check still! i had it on before my turbo setup was installed(sounds backwards right?). my setup was vaccum lined in, not throttle body injection. it actually gave me better mpg on highway, did nothing for city driving.
seems to be better off on any forced induction application. i've heard of corvettes with like 20psi and no intercooler! aquamist has a good website about it. it was less than $20 for parts(DIY kit), so i wasn't out lots of cash when i ditched it(filling up too often). i may try it again now i'm turbo'd! we'll see.
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Old 03-15-2005, 03:26 PM   #13
peter head
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Quote:
Originally Posted by americanyouth
Hmmm. Thats a little dissapointing. Jay, Powerlabs, I was planning on using an ITC as well (probably should have mentioned that). Doesn't that sound like it should be making more power?

Thanks for the link DAvid, looks like I've got some research to do.
Try the following link:
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=451

You can add nitromethane with water injection (with methanol) and it appeared that you can gain over 10% of power. Crazy but workable.
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Old 03-15-2005, 05:23 PM   #14
Blurvision
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The purpose of using WI with a forced induction car is to reduce air intake temps and raise octane to prevent knock and allow more of a safety margin. It is not a power adder like N2O. Using WI on an NA car is pointless - the intake temps are not any where close to those of Forced Induction cars. Even with raised compression the intake temps will not get hotter. NA simply doesnt need this.
-mark
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