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Old 03-15-2005, 04:24 PM   #1
jblaine
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Default The Hydra Thread

This thread is to consolidate Hydra discussion. Please do not litter it with "Which is better UTEC or Hydra" posts. While a perfectly valid question, this thread is for those who either already own a Hydra or who have a very specific question about the capabilities of the Hydra.

This top post is just a thread primer. Let's get the discussion going!

NOTICE: The following information is not from Element Tuning's mouth unless explicitly tagged in quotes attributed to Element Tuning. It is to be used at your OWN RISK.

NOTICE: Just because I have collected this information and this thread is under my name does not in anyway suggest I have any idea what I am doing.

Non-NASIOC Online ResourcesFocused "How To" Posts of Note
  • Boost Control by bboy. Link is to his single post. It's around 50% down page 2 in this thread if you care to find it that way.
  • Decel Fuel Cut by bboy. Link is to his single post. It's around 50% down page 5 in this thread if you care to find it that way.
NASIOC Threads of NoteQuestions and Answers

Q: What keys alter cell values in increments?
A: PageUp / PageDown

Q: What does "Some passwords do not match" mean when I try to Download to ECU?
A: Various maps/sections allow for password protection. By default, Element Tuning (and/or your Hydra tuning shop) password protects some of the maps to save you from shooting yourself in the foot in areas you most likely should not be touching. The above message in the question is not an error and can safely be ignored. If you need access to password protected maps, you should contact Element Tuning with your serial number and discuss your needs.

Q: How can I see what maps/sections are password protected?
A: Settings menu -> Setup tab -> Check Status. See also FAQ at manufacturer's website.

Q: When I go to Settings -> Injection, enter values larger than 5 or less than -5 for trim and click enter, the number displayed reads 5. Why?
A: Phil says, "The maximum you can trim individual cylinders is +/- 5% which is a very large difference."

Q: I don't have MS Excel and that appears to be the only way to save logged data. W T F ?
A: Contact the manufacturer and ask for software version 2.14v11 (or newer). It has the ability to "Export to Notepad" where you can then save your log files and view them in any tool of choice, such as Open Office.

Q: Although USB-to-serial adapters are not recommended by Hydra EMS, are there any known to work okay?
A: It has been reported that the iConcepts PDA Serial to USB Adapter as well as the IO Gear unit. It should be noted, however, that using a USB-to-serial adapter will cause "slightly slower datalogging capabilities and roaming capabilities on the main fuel and timing maps". It is also reported that PCMCIA serial cards work very well without the above performance issue.

Various Notes
  • The "Closed Loop Limit" map is not in effect while Autotune is enabled (even though you have to Enable Closed Loop and Enable Autotune for doing autotuning...). A little confusing.
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Last edited by jblaine; 07-25-2005 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 03-24-2005, 12:44 PM   #2
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Thanks for consolidating this information!

Phil
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Old 03-28-2005, 12:01 PM   #3
jblaine
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Phil, when can we roughly expect Element Tuning Guide 3? It's been a long time since 1 and 2. Any idea what it will cover?
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Old 03-28-2005, 12:20 PM   #4
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It's been half way completed for about 1.5 months. I promise I will finish the tuing guide series and not leave it at only 2. I sidelined it temporarily so I could travel and tune Hydras around the country.

Thanks,
Phil
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Old 03-28-2005, 12:22 PM   #5
jblaine
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Thanks, Phil. I figured it was just a matter of being busy, but it is great to hear that you are dedicated to working on it further and it's not going to just fall off the face of the earth. It is sorely needed
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Old 04-01-2005, 08:38 PM   #6
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Alright, I'll get the ball rolling with a question I emailed to Phil 20 mins ago on a Friday night at 8:15PM

During initial setup, after install of physical parts, and just after WB02 calibration exactly as the directions state...

I saved my map to my laptop.

I exited "Maps"

I clicked Download to ECU, then Download (1st time ever)

I got an error message about "Some passwords are not the same" and that some of my maps may not be transferred. I clicked OK. Stuff transferred and I was left at the main/first screen.

ANSWER: According to Hydra EMS North America, Phil's default is to disallow editing of some maps (maps 95% of you will never need to touch). The error above is caued by the password protection on some maps. It is actually fine.

Last edited by jblaine; 04-02-2005 at 07:26 AM.
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Old 04-01-2005, 11:52 PM   #7
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jblaine - with the igntion on, go into select, settings, and hit the setup button. In there, you'll see a button called "check status"

Hit that, and see what "matches" and what "fails".
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Old 04-01-2005, 11:53 PM   #8
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Did that.

Everything fails.
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Old 04-02-2005, 12:02 AM   #9
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Damn seems like they are more trouble than they are worth?!?!?! To me it seems, If your not a master tuner, this thing should be left alone IMOP, But Its a powerfull tool, and they should really program the Crusie Control back into it!!!
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Old 04-02-2005, 12:03 AM   #10
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Check your PMs, I have an idea for you
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Old 04-02-2005, 12:06 AM   #11
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Thanks DC -- got PM. Email sent.
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Old 04-02-2005, 12:07 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi_Guy04
Damn seems like they are more trouble than they are worth?!?!?! To me it seems, If your not a master tuner, this thing should be left alone IMOP, But Its a powerfull tool, and they should really program the Crusie Control back into it!!!
It's a simple map/password problem. I am grumpy, but it's really no big deal. I'm the one who did the install at 6PM on a Friday night.
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Old 04-02-2005, 12:08 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi_Guy04
Damn seems like they are more trouble than they are worth?!?!?! To me it seems, If your not a master tuner, this thing should be left alone IMOP, But Its a powerfull tool, and they should really program the Crusie Control back into it!!!
Its not a matter of putting the cruise control back into it, its a matter of getting it in there. There are safeties built into the unit, and cruise control pretty much eliminates those safeties if it was used.

The problem that jblaine is having is not related to tuning at all. Its a password problem. Once the unit is setup properly for idle, vacuum controls, acceleration parameters (all the stuff that Phil does for us), its no harder to tune than any other engine management.
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Old 04-02-2005, 07:27 AM   #14
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Well, aside from a low battery and no charger I think I am on track now. I screwed around enough to get my saved initial map working and it reports some things password protected and some not (matches/fails). Updated original post above with more information/answer.
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Old 04-02-2005, 07:49 AM   #15
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Updated top post with pretty lists and colors for easier reading. Added Q/A section.
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Old 04-02-2005, 07:55 AM   #16
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thanks for doing this jeff. good luck!

ken
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Old 04-02-2005, 08:20 AM   #17
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New Q: When I enter "10" into the fuel trim for inj1 - inj4 and click enter, why does it read '5'? It reads '5' no matter what I put, after clicking enter.
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Old 04-02-2005, 09:21 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblaine
New Q: When I enter "10" into the fuel trim for inj1 - inj4 and click enter, why does it read '5'? It reads '5' no matter what I put, after clicking enter.
The maximum you can trim individual cylinders is +/- 5% which is a very large difference.

Thanks,
Phil
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Old 04-02-2005, 11:22 AM   #19
jblaine
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EDIT: Update at bottom of post.

Thanks Phil.

I can't get this pig to start for anything with charged battery still. I feel like I am kind of running blind here though. Is there anything at all you can tell me about the map loaded into this thing initially? What size injectors was it mapped for?

No matter how far I swing rich or lean in cranking enrichment and start primer, I cannot seem to get the car to do anything but crank. The RPMs on dash and in the software blip up around 120RPM or so now and then during cranking.

I have tried as high as 40 cranking enrichment (20C) and as low as 10.

I have tried corresponding start primer as high as 2.5 and as low as 1.5 (20C).

I have also tried trim of -5 and the default 0.

I have also tried removing fuel from the main fuel map in the current trace site.

No sputter, no pops, and AFR during cranking goes to 8.6:1 no matter the changes above in any direction.

Is it safe to say at this point I have cylinders full of fuel and I am just soooo far off rich-wise that I need to take more drastic measures in the main fuel map?

UPDATE: Okay, with enough fuel pulled out of the main map and -5 trim on all injectors, I am seeing 10-11:1 AFR at crank now. Still nothing but cranking. No sputtering, no start.

Last edited by jblaine; 04-02-2005 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 04-02-2005, 12:57 PM   #20
Element Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblaine
EDIT: Update at bottom of post.

Thanks Phil.

I can't get this pig to start for anything with charged battery still. I feel like I am kind of running blind here though. Is there anything at all you can tell me about the map loaded into this thing initially? What size injectors was it mapped for?

No matter how far I swing rich or lean in cranking enrichment and start primer, I cannot seem to get the car to do anything but crank. The RPMs on dash and in the software blip up around 120RPM or so now and then during cranking.

I have tried as high as 40 cranking enrichment (20C) and as low as 10.

I have tried corresponding start primer as high as 2.5 and as low as 1.5 (20C).

I have also tried trim of -5 and the default 0.

I have also tried removing fuel from the main fuel map in the current trace site.

No sputter, no pops, and AFR during cranking goes to 8.6:1 no matter the changes above in any direction.

Is it safe to say at this point I have cylinders full of fuel and I am just soooo far off rich-wise that I need to take more drastic measures in the main fuel map?

UPDATE: Okay, with enough fuel pulled out of the main map and -5 trim on all injectors, I am seeing 10-11:1 AFR at crank now. Still nothing but cranking. No sputtering, no start.
The map that's in the unit you purchase is for a 2.5L WRX with 800cc injectors so this would not be a good starting point for a 2.0 WRX running stock injectors

I'll email you something closer but again I don't have a map for stock WRX injectors.

Thanks,
Phil
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Old 04-02-2005, 01:36 PM   #21
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Thanks Phil - got the map and replied. At least I know what I am starting from now in the map you sent me. Getting myself into a rough guess area with a map of known cc is much easier than having no idea what I am working with to start.

I plugged in the stock ECU and took the car around the block (a mile) to flush things out.
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Old 04-02-2005, 05:00 PM   #22
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I have to be doing something funamentally wrong, flapping around in the dark here. I don't mind publicly humiliating myself if it means some sort of progress.

It seems to me that nothing I do changes my AFR significantly while cranking.

With the Hydra and a map for 550cc injectors, It just sits there and hovers around 9:1 when one would expect it to be at least as lean as 12-13:1 (because I have 440cc injectors). Globally alter/scale the map for 440cc injectors? Hovers around 9:1 still.

Putting my stock ECU back in, the car cranks right up and is firing on all cylinders.

I have tried increasing all fuel map values by as little as 3% and as much as 20%. Still reads roughly 9:1 during crank and never starts.

I have tried decreasing (against all logic) all original fuel map values by as little as 3% and as much as 20%. Still reads roughly 9:1 during crank and never starts.

I've recharged my battery 5 times in the last 22 hours... If I could just get the thing to SPUTTER or COUGH I'd be happy.

I just don't get it. I am missing something.

EDIT: For what it's worth, all injector trims are 0, and all start primer / cranking enrichment is left alone as instructed by Phil. I have been tweaking only the fuel map to try to get this thing to cough, wheeze, anything. The WB02 was calibrated and the L/R WB HEGO are selected... dunno what else to list here.

EDIT 2: I even tried dropping all cranking enrichment values to 0. Did nothing of significance for my problem.

Last edited by jblaine; 04-02-2005 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 04-03-2005, 01:08 AM   #23
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Are you sure you have spark?

I would change my oil if I were you, there is probably a ton of fuel in it.
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Old 04-03-2005, 07:01 AM   #24
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I'm not sure of anything other than my stock ECU starts the car right up. That's about the only consistent piece of information I have been able to gather in 2 days.

I agree re: fuel. I will do that once I can even get the thing to start and idle.

EDIT: I mean re: fuel in oil.

Last edited by jblaine; 04-03-2005 at 07:10 AM.
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Old 04-03-2005, 07:54 PM   #25
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7:45PM - Zero progress. With the 550cc map I have, I have tried just about everything imaginable in the range of +3% to +25% injector on-time and 0-30 for cranking enrichment values. At least 50 combinations. Not a single sputter or cough. Stock ECU starts the car right up, so it's nothing mechanical in my car. I am at the end of the road with ideas to try.

Phil has told me I am on my own with my stock injectors, so if anybody is waiting for Phil to chime in, don't -- let me hear your ideas.

It is beyond me how one can have a map for 550cc injectors and try for 3 days to get the car to give a SINGLE significant combustion event... unless the Hydra or harness is bad.
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