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Old 01-22-2013, 02:05 PM   #451
Element Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewski79 View Post
Good news: The 2.7 software development is finished. I got the phone call from Andrew today around 12:30pm stating the engineers had fixed the last of the bugs/issues and that I could pick the car up. I don't have the 2.7 in my car for the time being as Andrew wanted to finish the wiring harness. I don't have a timeline of when the 2.7 will be ready for release to market. Maybe Phil can chime in on this.

Also, I will continue to update if I come across any more information.

Thanks,
Chris
Chris,

Good to hear, I know they said the ABS was tricky on this car as it was using so many sensor inputs. The Hydra 2.7 has been available for the 08+ STi but in "parallel" and now we can sell it as a stand-alone. This means a cheaper price for the 08+ WRX and STi owners!

Anyone can purchase the 08-2010 or the 2011+ STi Hydras but now have the option of full stand-alone or parallel.
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:06 PM   #452
Element Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpturbo View Post
Phil will have a few cars to tune at the time!!! I know a few....
Let me know whenever your cars are ready and I'll make this happen before I get too far into the race season.
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:06 PM   #453
Element Tuning
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Default Cold Start Hydra 2.7

Inability to cold start with the Hydra EMS has been brought up numerous times so I thought I would address this and offer some tips to anyone that might be having some issues.

Element Tuning demonstration for 20 degree cold start using 2.7 Hydra EMS. The cold start was performed on a 2005 Subaru Legacy GT running an Element Tuning Pro Comp Engine equipped with big valve heads (+1mm, multi-angle valve job, bowl blend, OEM cams, Forged pistons) and 816cc fuel injectors.


Outside air temp is 20 F and the engine block and engine bay are showing 3C (it's possible the sensor calibration is slightly off or more likely it's a function of the engine bay being heated in the sun under a black hood due to a green house type effect).

As you can see the engine fires right up with proper cranking voltage and proper tuning. Even my 10:1 compression race car fires up in 30 degree weather using only a mini Odyssey battery. In that case your tuning needs to be 100% as you won't have more than 1 or two tries to start due to how small the battery is.

The number one reason for cold start issues is a lack of cranking voltage. The Hydra has many more processors and more powerful processors than OEM and they require over 10 volts to boot while cranking the engine. If you are having issues starting, make note of the battery voltage in your real time display. No amount of tuning will start a car with inadequate cranking voltage. We recommend a high end battery and when I say high end battery, a battery with a lot of lead in it. This would be something like a Diehard Platinum or if you are trunk installing go up to a larger battery (we typically use Toyota Tundra batteries for trunk installs) as the more lead plates you have the higher the voltage (cold cranking amps do not tell the whole story).

If voltage is acceptable then you can move onto tuning the many "starting" maps the Hydra provides. In most cases if the engine does not crank over in 2-3 seconds you're simply not delivering enough fuel and an adjustment to the "start primer," "cranking enrichment," or "coolant temp trim" fuel maps are in order.

For more information of starting the car please visit www.elementtuning.com and view our "technical" page for tuning tips.

Thanks,
Phil Grabow

Last edited by Element Tuning; 01-22-2013 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:50 AM   #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post
Chris,

Good to hear, I know they said the ABS was tricky on this car as it was using so many sensor inputs. The Hydra 2.7 has been available for the 08+ STi but in "parallel" and now we can sell it as a stand-alone. This means a cheaper price for the 08+ WRX and STi owners!

Anyone can purchase the 08-2010 or the 2011+ STi Hydras but now have the option of full stand-alone or parallel.
Thanks for clearing that up Phil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post
Let me know whenever your cars are ready and I'll make this happen before I get too far into the race season.
Keep me in the loop of dates so I can clear my schedule and jump in on that.

Chris
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:54 PM   #455
Element Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewski79 View Post

Keep me in the loop of dates so I can clear my schedule and jump in on that.

Chris
Chris,

Email me at elementtuning.com and I'll put you on the list for "Bay Area" tuning.
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:05 PM   #456
Element Tuning
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Default Dialing in the Post Start maps

Part 2 sub freezing cold start with Hydra EMS. Making adjustments to "Post Start" enrichment maps and sensor calibrations. Getting the engine to start is only step one but dialing in the few minutes after the engine starts is what I cover in this video.


I don't always post up the latest information here so "Like" us on Facebook and follow there for not only Hydra related updates but race coverage etc. http://www.facebook.com/element.tuning

Thanks,
Phil Grabow

Last edited by Element Tuning; 01-24-2013 at 03:14 PM.
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:53 PM   #457
King Tut
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Can't wait for more information on Hydra for the BRZ.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:16 PM   #458
Joelo_00
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BRZ development already started?
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:06 PM   #459
Element Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelo_00 View Post
BRZ development already started?
Started? More like almost done In all seriousness it has taken a lot more R&D than initially anticipated but we have a full plug and play stand-alone EMS for the FRS/BRZ that runs simultaneous direct and port injection. We've had to redesign some hardware to run all of that along with the quad variable cam setup and that has created some hurdles.

I was testing just the other day but now I'm waiting on a few more updates so I can move forward with my calibrations so hopefully we'll have this available in the near future.
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:20 PM   #460
Element Tuning
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Default Video: Hydra EMS running in BRZ FRS FT86

Here's a little to wet your appetite for the stand-alone Hydra EMS for the BRZ/FRS/FT86

It's real!

Youtube:

Thanks,
Phil Grabow
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:10 AM   #461
Crashed_Again
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Has anyone installed a Hydra 2.7 Hybrid for a WRX running AVCS?
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Old 03-28-2013, 12:50 PM   #462
Element Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashed_Again View Post
Has anyone installed a Hydra 2.7 Hybrid for a WRX running AVCS?
Yes this is the most common sale for 02-05 WRX customers and Hydras. So AVCS heads or full STi LB swaps are no problem. Keep in mind this is a custom Hydra so make sure you call me and don't just order the 02-05 WRX unit as it's not capable of closed loop AVCS. What you'll need is a hybrid STi/WRX Hydra.

Thanks,
Phil Grabow
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Old 04-06-2013, 03:50 PM   #463
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Hi

Would I be losing any of the OEM accesories if I chose to run a hydra on a 06 WRX limited? (Auto HVAC, Cruise Control etc)


Thanks
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:39 PM   #464
Element Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeWRB View Post
Hi

Would I be losing any of the OEM accesories if I chose to run a hydra on a 06 WRX limited? (Auto HVAC, Cruise Control etc)


Thanks
For now just the cruise control is disabled. We are in the process of developing cruise control as an upgrade option for the Hydra EMS 2.7+
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:57 PM   #465
sperry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post
Yes this is the most common sale for 02-05 WRX customers and Hydras. So AVCS heads or full STi LB swaps are no problem. Keep in mind this is a custom Hydra so make sure you call me and don't just order the 02-05 WRX unit as it's not capable of closed loop AVCS. What you'll need is a hybrid STi/WRX Hydra.

Thanks,
Phil Grabow
Hey Phil,

I've got a Hydra 2.5 setup for an '02 WRX cable throttle + AVCS. How bad is the upgrade path? Any way to update the 2.5 to a 2.7, or am I looking at a whole new unit?
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Old 04-10-2013, 07:39 PM   #466
Element Tuning
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The upgrade path is really straight forward with the cable throttle cars so even older units like the 2.5 can be upgraded.. Just keep in mind 2.7 requires new tuning, when you upgrade through us we'll provide a new base map, but tuning is so much easier/faster while also being more advanced.

If you have new parts, want to run E85, or tune your car often, it's a no brainer, upgrade to 2.7 and you will not regret it!

Last edited by Element Tuning; 04-10-2013 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:10 PM   #467
sperry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post
The upgrade path is really straight forward with the cable throttle cars so even older units like the 2.5 can be upgraded.. Just keep in mind 2.7 requires new tuning, when you upgrade through us we'll provide a new base map, but tuning is so much easier/faster while also being more advanced.

If you have new parts, want to run E85, or tune your car often, it's a no brainer, upgrade to 2.7 and you will not regret it!
What's the upgrade process and cost? I'm assuming I'll need to send you my 2.5. Like I said, it's for an '02 WRX w/ '04 AVCS (I reused the TGV wiring for the AVCS control on the engine harness). Also, I've got the wideband option already.

My car is currently running off the stock ECU while I break-in my recently rebuilt motor and pass smog. The map on my Hydra 2.5 isn't for the current motor, so there's no huge loss with needing new maps since I'll have to retune for this motor anyway.

Current setup:

'02 WRX intake manifold/throttle body (cable throttle)
TGV deletes
2.5L EJ257 block, forged pistons (stock compression)
'04 STi heads
Deatchwerks 800cc top-feed injectors w/ Perrin fuel rails
KSTech CAI intake, Perrin turbo inlet (silicone), Perrin FMIC
GT52 turbo
ported/polished OEM headers, GS crosspipe, Perrin UP, TurboXS DP, Prodrive cat-back
Halman MBC

So, nothing unusual or too extreme... The only oddity is that I live at about 4200' altitude. Got a base map that should be close?

Feel free to reply here, or PM or email me (sperry at doink.net). Thanks!
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:41 PM   #468
HawkeyeWRB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post
For now just the cruise control is disabled. We are in the process of developing cruise control as an upgrade option for the Hydra EMS 2.7+
Thats great to hear, any idea on cost and when it should be available?
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:10 PM   #469
Element Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sperry View Post
What's the upgrade process and cost? I'm assuming I'll need to send you my 2.5. Like I said, it's for an '02 WRX w/ '04 AVCS (I reused the TGV wiring for the AVCS control on the engine harness). Also, I've got the wideband option already.

My car is currently running off the stock ECU while I break-in my recently rebuilt motor and pass smog. The map on my Hydra 2.5 isn't for the current motor, so there's no huge loss with needing new maps since I'll have to retune for this motor anyway.

Current setup:

'02 WRX intake manifold/throttle body (cable throttle)
TGV deletes
2.5L EJ257 block, forged pistons (stock compression)
'04 STi heads
Deatchwerks 800cc top-feed injectors w/ Perrin fuel rails
KSTech CAI intake, Perrin turbo inlet (silicone), Perrin FMIC
GT52 turbo
ported/polished OEM headers, GS crosspipe, Perrin UP, TurboXS DP, Prodrive cat-back
Halman MBC

So, nothing unusual or too extreme... The only oddity is that I live at about 4200' altitude. Got a base map that should be close?

Feel free to reply here, or PM or email me (sperry at doink.net). Thanks!
Yes I have a base map that will work well for you.

http://www.hydraems.com/upgrade/25/ and look at USDM 02-05 WRX

Prices are there and you'll need the "GAMMA" but you'll only have simple AVCS control and not dual input closed loop AVCS control since that's part of the DBW board only on the 04+ STi Hydra units. Since it's a older 2.5 the latest DBW circuit board will not be compatible.

Thanks,
Phil Grabow
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:12 PM   #470
Element Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeWRB View Post
Thats great to hear, any idea on cost and when it should be available?
Honestly I don't have a real answer for either question. I do know provisions are being made in areas of the coding for this. I will have it long before anyone sees it so I'll give people plenty of notice it's in works.
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:42 PM   #471
HawkeyeWRB
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Thanks a lot, please keep us updated
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Old 04-16-2013, 02:36 PM   #472
sperry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post
Yes I have a base map that will work well for you.

http://www.hydraems.com/upgrade/25/ and look at USDM 02-05 WRX

Prices are there and you'll need the "GAMMA" but you'll only have simple AVCS control and not dual input closed loop AVCS control since that's part of the DBW board only on the 04+ STi Hydra units. Since it's a older 2.5 the latest DBW circuit board will not be compatible.

Thanks,
Phil Grabow
Awesome, thanks for the info Phil.

I'll be contacting you guys via email!
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Old 04-20-2013, 06:54 PM   #473
theotherguy
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Are the pinouts on a hydra 2.1 the same as the pin outs for a hydra 2.5? I have both and I'd like to remove the hydra 2.1 for a sohc engine in a 2001 RS and reuse the adapter harness on a hydra 2.5 for a wrx engine and re-install it into the 2001 RS. The sohc engine is broke and I have a complete wrx motor ready to go.
Thanks
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Old 04-22-2013, 02:17 PM   #474
Element Tuning
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Originally Posted by theotherguy View Post
Are the pinouts on a hydra 2.1 the same as the pin outs for a hydra 2.5? I have both and I'd like to remove the hydra 2.1 for a sohc engine in a 2001 RS and reuse the adapter harness on a hydra 2.5 for a wrx engine and re-install it into the 2001 RS. The sohc engine is broke and I have a complete wrx motor ready to go.
Thanks
Yes the wiring used for the 99-01 RS 2.1 Hydra is the same as the 2.5 Hydra for 99-01 RS.

WRX Hydra will work in the RS as long as you are running the WRX engine, not an RS engine. RS engines require different cam/trigger signal conditioning, therefore the EMS is physically different.
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:53 PM   #475
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So I am setting up my 2.7 in my SVX and I'm not positive I have the correct values for the subaru coolant temp sensor and GM IAT sensor calibration. Below are the values I am using, can you let me know if these are correct for the subaru and GM sensors? (I know the GM IAT used to be a selection in 2.6, and they changed it for 2.7)

Subaru coolant temp sensor
265.99/261.49/256.99/252.49/247.99/212/190.4/172.4/154.4/141.8/134.6/107.6/95/77/41/-4

GM IAT
265.99/261.49/256.99/252.49/247.99/212/190.4/172.4/154.4/141.8/134.6/107.6/95/77/41/-4

I'm pretty sure they are not correct seeing as they are the same for each sensor...

Both "CTS pull-up enable" and "ATS pull-up enable" are checked and I do get readings from each sensor, I just don't think they are correct. Thank you for your help, and once I finish a bit more work you will have a PM about buying your time for a tune.
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