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Old 07-30-2005, 07:28 PM   #151
chucktoo
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Default MAP over 30 psig.

Hi Phil

Do you have recomended MAP for going above 3 bar ?

This is my compressor map, I would like to be able to run above 30 psig.
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Last edited by chucktoo; 07-30-2005 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 07-30-2005, 07:41 PM   #152
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One quick question to all of you Hydra guys.

What are you pulling vacuum-wise at idle?

I just reversed my manifold and am pulling around 17-18inHg, but I think it should be more. Stock ECU probably pulls more vac and I know where it should be with it, but wont idle on my car right now. Hydra runs different timing/idle speed at idle which would/should produce different idle vacs.
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Old 07-30-2005, 09:12 PM   #153
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Do you have recomended MAP for going above 3 bar ?

This is my compressor map, I would like to be able to run above 30 psig.
[/quote]

Let me know how large your hot side is. We made just shy of 600 whp yesterday at only 27-28 psi. The problem was the hot side was so large we could not produce more boost pressure. It took us a while to figure this out between me using a knock headset, fuel pump, and the exhaust noise I couldn't hear much else so I didn't notice the wastegate wasn't even opening.

We were seeing gains of 15 whp per 1 psi of boost so if we could have produced 30 psi power should have been in the 620 whp range. There is also the possibility that the compressor was being out flowed as it was a GT35R rated at 65 lbs and we were making about 600 whp.

My point is don't change the MAP sensor just yet as a turbocharger that large may not require or be able to produce higher than 30 psi. If you do decide to go with a larger 5 bar MAP sensor you can use the AEM sensor. If you only plan on running 32-35 psi you would be better off with the current sensor as you will loose resolution with the 5 bar map sensor as you’ll have larger load spreads between load sites. Tuning will also be more difficult as all load sites will shift making any base map questionable.

Also make sure you have 1000cc injectors with that turbocharger. I just tested them on this client’s car, they idled perfectly with the Hydra, but we saw 89% IDC at this power level. AFR was 12.5:1.

Thanks,
Phil
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Last edited by Element Tuning; 07-30-2005 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 07-30-2005, 09:14 PM   #154
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Hi Phil

Hot side is T-4 twin scroll - if I remember ~.82 AR.

Can go down to ~.6 AR hotside if needed - do have a ~9000 rpm red line.

Injectors are UR 1000 cc.

Last edited by chucktoo; 07-30-2005 at 09:20 PM.
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Old 07-30-2005, 10:12 PM   #155
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Is the Hydra for the '05 Legacy GT availible yet?? Will the STi Hydra work?? I need a standalone solution for my LGT really badly......


-Matt
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Old 07-30-2005, 11:32 PM   #156
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Oops
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Old 07-31-2005, 11:28 AM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaggyGT
Is the Hydra for the '05 Legacy GT availible yet?? Will the STi Hydra work?? I need a standalone solution for my LGT really badly......


-Matt
I've tested the Element Hydra for the 05 STI on my 5EAT Legacy GT and I really wish I could run it but the CAN (Body) computer actually controls the data transfer from the transmission computer to the ecu. The car ran incredibly well but it shifts to hard without proper compensation for shift points. We have ways around this but it’s unlikely we’ll release this to the public.

This does not pose a problem for the 5MT but the CAN computer has its hand in the console computer and the coolant gauge. The coolant temp reads properly in the Hydra but the gauge doesn't report the proper reading. For a race car, install a coolant gauge and go at it but for a street you would have to run a parallel system with the OEM so you could pass that data along to the CAN computer. The console computer doesn’t report gas mileage.

In the future the Hydra will be 100 % compatible with CAN systems including the 5EAT.

Thanks,
Phil
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Old 07-31-2005, 11:33 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgknestrick
One quick question to all of you Hydra guys.

What are you pulling vacuum-wise at idle?

I just reversed my manifold and am pulling around 17-18inHg, but I think it should be more. Stock ECU probably pulls more vac and I know where it should be with it, but wont idle on my car right now. Hydra runs different timing/idle speed at idle which would/should produce different idle vacs.
That's correct, idle speed and AFR will effect the vacuum reading but I see between 20 and 17 in/hg on my boost gauge. When the car is fully warmed up I see about 18 in/hg at 950 rpm with an AFR of 14.5.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
240.246.0302

Last edited by Element Tuning; 07-31-2005 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 07-31-2005, 11:47 AM   #159
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Thanks Phil, I was hoping to hear from other people here too so that I had some data, just not one reading.

My car is running very strong at 15 psi now with the FP3065. Lag is the same as my SBR GT30-12! Hopefully we'll be seeing you soon for some tweeking.
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Old 07-31-2005, 11:57 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning
I've tested the Element Hydra for the 05 STI on my 5EAT Legacy GT and I really wish I could run it but the CAN (Body) computer actually controls the data transfer from the transmission computer to the ecu. The car ran incredibly well but it shifts to hard without proper compensation for shift points. We have ways around this but it’s unlikely we’ll release this to the public.

This does not pose a problem for the 5MT but the CAN computer has its hand in the console computer and the coolant gauge. The coolant temp reads properly in the Hydra but the gauge doesn't report the proper reading. For a race car, install a coolant gauge and go at it but for a street you would have to run a parallel system with the OEM so you could pass that data along to the CAN computer. The console computer doesn’t report gas mileage.

In the future the Hydra will be 100 % compatible with CAN systems including the 5EAT.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
240.246.0302

Mine is a manual transmission. So do you have an option for me? I sent you an e-mail, I am VERY serious about putting a Hydra in my car even if my car is a test dummy. Please help me out.

-Matt
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Old 07-31-2005, 12:02 PM   #161
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wgknestrick: roughly 14.5inHg for me at 1000RPM and 14.7:1 ... time to do a compression test
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Old 07-31-2005, 12:19 PM   #162
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A lot depends on elevation and temperature as well Jblaine...I pull anywhere from 460mm HG to 515mm HG, depending on temperature.
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Old 07-31-2005, 01:02 PM   #163
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Thanks guys, I guess the Hydra just wants to pull slightly less vac at idle compared to the stock ECU. Hydra seems to be 18-20inHg while stock seems to be 20-22inHg
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Old 07-31-2005, 01:18 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgknestrick
Thanks guys, I guess the Hydra just wants to pull slightly less vac at idle compared to the stock ECU. Hydra seems to be 18-20inHg while stock seems to be 20-22inHg
I see around 20 in/hg with the Hydra when I lower my idle speed to around 750 but with my virtually solid transmission mount it's so much smoother at 950 rpm. On most customers cars unless they are heavily modified 850 rpm works nicely. By increasing your idle RPM you're introducing what is basically a vacuum leak by opening the ISC valve or in your case your throttle plate. Your results are normal based on all the STI I've custom tuned with the Hydra.

Jblaine,

Try taking your vacuum source directly from the manifold and see if your vacuum reading changes. I had the purge control one way valve go bad which resulted in a vacuum leak. I think you have a JDM manifold and may not have this. I see slightly less vacuum on the 2.0 and significantly less on the JDM swaps most likely due to lower compression, bigger valves, intake ports and cams.

Thanks,
Phil
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Old 07-31-2005, 03:47 PM   #165
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Quote:
Mine is a manual transmission. So do you have an option for me? I sent you an e-mail, I am VERY serious about putting a Hydra in my car even if my car is a test dummy. Please help me out.



-Matt
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Old 07-31-2005, 06:14 PM   #166
Element Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaggyGT
Mine is a manual transmission. So do you have an option for me? I sent you an e-mail, I am VERY serious about putting a Hydra in my car even if my car is a test dummy. Please help me out.

-Matt
Matt,

Your answer is in the post:

"This does not pose a problem for the 5MT but the CAN computer has its hand in the console computer and the coolant gauge. The coolant temp reads properly in the Hydra but the gauge doesn't report the proper reading. For a race car, install a coolant gauge and go at...."

If you really want it now you will loose these two items, cruise control, and OBD2. At some point I'll be testing the parallel system but there is no specific time frame on this.

Thanks,
Phil
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Old 07-31-2005, 07:30 PM   #167
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Eh with a standalone the need for OBD-II is not really necessary, is it? And as for the cruise, what the heck is that??? I have had a CEL on since I installed the GT30R, Magnus Intake, TGV Deletes, ect. and with the '05s when the CEL is the cruise does not work. I can also deal with having an aftermarket temp guage in the car.

Can you send me a PM or e-mail on how much and if you have a unit currently availible? My e-mail is shaggygt@suby-performance.com .

Thanks a ton for your help. I would rather have a Hydra in my car any day over the crappy UTEC I am currently running. It would be nice to have a car that can actually idle again....

-Matt

Last edited by ShaggyGT; 07-31-2005 at 08:30 PM. Reason: added more info....
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Old 07-31-2005, 08:05 PM   #168
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The current setup is this:

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Old 07-31-2005, 08:27 PM   #169
chucktoo
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Hi Phil

I assume the Speedo in Legacy Gt AT worked Ok since I think it's CAN bus signal comes from the ABS ?

The water temp was a new one but no big deal since we have to change the radiator any way so we could add an extra temp sensor till you hook into the CAN bus.

Hopefully Doug will be installing one in my OBXT in the next month or so with dual 2D Aquamists . Just wanted to make sure he could tune over 30 psig , not a problem.
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Old 08-01-2005, 10:37 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblaine
The current setup is this:

Ok, I'm not sure your can run the purge control solenoid without the one way valve as I don't know what kind of pressure it's designed to handle. Just as a test, disconnect the purge control solenoid from the vacuum lines so that the Hydra and your boost gauge line go directly to the manifold (purge open to atmosphere).

Phil
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Old 08-01-2005, 10:42 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucktoo
Hi Phil

I assume the Speedo in Legacy Gt AT worked Ok since I think it's CAN bus signal comes from the ABS ?

The water temp was a new one but no big deal since we have to change the radiator any way so we could add an extra temp sensor till you hook into the CAN bus.

Hopefully Doug will be installing one in my OBXT in the next month or so with dual 2D Aquamists . Just wanted to make sure he could tune over 30 psig , not a problem.
Yes, everything other than what I mentioned worked appropriately. As for your car I thought it was an XT vs. and Outback so I'll have to do some research. Do you have the ECM I/O diagram you could send me?

Thanks,
Phil
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Old 08-04-2005, 06:31 PM   #172
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Phil, with the line off the intake manifold going only to my boost gauge and Hydra unit (solenoid vac line dangling in air), the car barely idles due to 15.2:1 AFRs. I will put it back the way I had it, but that's the result of the test...
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Old 08-04-2005, 08:10 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblaine
Phil, with the line off the intake manifold going only to my boost gauge and Hydra unit (solenoid vac line dangling in air), the car barely idles due to 15.2:1 AFRs. I will put it back the way I had it, but that's the result of the test...
That might be part of the problem. This means your purge control solenoid is open during idle when we usually don't open it until in cruise. Email me a copy of your map again so I can see how it's configured in your outputs.

Since most setups will idle the car in the 460-535 mm/hg load sites we open the purge control between 99 and 399 mm/hg.

Temporarily tune your AFR down to 14.5 without the purge hooked up and take a vacuum reading again.

Thanks,
Phil
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Old 08-04-2005, 10:57 PM   #174
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Phil.

Do you know what the story with Andrew Nam is? My case is a bit complicated.

Readers digest:
Basically he set up a custom hydra for an STi swap into my '98 RS. The unit was delivered almost 6 months ago. The car still has not started. The unit is recieving all the proper signals/power/ground (at least according to the pinout I was provided). It's also not communicating with the laptop. No ignition primary or injector pulse is being sent. Now he is not returning any of my e-mails or calls from the shop the car is currently sitting at.

Last edited by no-coast-punk; 08-04-2005 at 11:09 PM.
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Old 08-04-2005, 11:32 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no-coast-punk
Phil.

Do you know what the story with Andrew Nam is? My case is a bit complicated.

Readers digest:
Basically he set up a custom hydra for an STi swap into my '98 RS. The unit was delivered almost 6 months ago. The car still has not started. The unit is recieving all the proper signals/power/ground (at least according to the pinout I was provided). It's also not communicating with the laptop. No ignition primary or injector pulse is being sent. Now he is not returning any of my e-mails or calls from the shop the car is currently sitting at.
Sorry but I can't help you with your RS troubles. I don't have exclusivity on RS units and have never tuned one. I can tell you Andrew has been in Chicago for the last week or so setting up a dealership.
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