VF-34 vs VF-30 vs TD05H 16g - Page 2

MINO · 03-19-2005, 08:44 PM

Here's my runs with the 16g.
Starting with my current tune. This dyno does 235-245 whp for stock STIs.
91 Octane.
HKS Header
m2 uppipe
(both wrapped)
APS 3 in TBE
STI injectors, walbro fp
16g (ported)
20w 50 oil
Ecutec
max 16.5psi
(this chart also illustrates the importance of using the correct length of vacuum line. The ports are poorly angaled for the factory lines)
1 step colder iridium ngks
My tuner stated that, in his experience, the 16g has a better curve than the vf 30-34 but the vf has more at the top.

Previous run.
Minus the header. Using a Unichip 17psi, godspeed dp and kakimoto.
This dyno was not calibrated correctly at the time. I'm not sure what to compare it to other than the other 16g on this chart. He was running TXS
FMIC, Shorty, TBE and a mix of race gas (probably 95-96):

I've seen a current graph for his car with 300whp on deadbolts site.
hope this helps.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

jaypine · 03-19-2005, 09:02 PM

The two posted above are the ones I have. Similiar to the VF30/34. Most claim that it spools the same or faster with more midrange and top end. Plus it's upgradeable and rebuildable.

unkadave · 03-19-2005, 09:08 PM

I had the vf34 because it spooled faster. It was really weak compared to a vf22 in a similar car. Got the vf22, P and P'd, put down 278whp. Loved it. I never noticed any lag, difference. But the vf22 did not act like a little girl at 5k to 7k, like the vf34 did.

I did chew it up trying the secret ecu reset. Five seconds of, 5psi at 2,500 in third though.

line · 03-19-2005, 10:43 PM

unkadave you have a dyno for that setup sounds pretty nice. Also does the P&P VF-22 spool about the same as the VF-34?

Uncle Scotty · 03-19-2005, 11:49 PM

...what is it with all the kiddies lately neeeding dyno validation, here????

...it's as bad as wanting 'BOV's and CAI's

BigClunke · 03-19-2005, 11:51 PM

i think i have heard that the 16g responds better to race gas and higher boost. i think more people need to start using the 16g before we start to develop a real knowledge base. so many people have used the vf series that we have tons of info on what works and dosent. the big 16g seems very impressive and i think the true potential will be revealed with a bit of time.

Uncle Scotty · 03-20-2005, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigClunke

i think i have heard that the 16g responds better to race gas and higher boost. i think more people need to start using the 16g before we start to develop a real knowledge base. so many people have used the vf series that we have tons of info on what works and dosent. the big 16g seems very impressive and i think the true potential will be revealed with a bit of time.

the TD05-16G was the stock turbo on at least one of the JDM STi's...v4, IIRC....and the TD05 is widely used in other countries and according to John Banks, there are more than one or 2 running 11's with them, no giggle gas, in the UK and the DSM world if FULL of 16G's.......

......so what's your point????

azn2yunr · 03-20-2005, 01:41 AM

i already posted in responce but maybe i can be of more help.

on paper (compressor chart) the 16g out pulls the 22.

16g is rebuildable and upgradeable. 22 or 34 is not.

there is no noticeable difference in boost responce between vf3* and the 16g. heck there was no noticeable spool difference on my car from when it was stock with a vf11 and its an auto. its not like i am waiting for it to spool or anything. and its extremely streetable.

it pulls at 15psi and could probaly go higher and hold its pressure all the way to redline.

they were used on v2 stis - v4 and on 1996 wrx's. they were rated at 280 hp afaik and i have seen with my own eyes a 96 wrx swap (stock) match up with an 02 wrx that was fairly modded (utec, aps fmic, vf23, ect ect) at the track running similar times (within .5xx sec) not to mention the swaped car was a gc using a 1.8 tranny.

......sooooo. just get the 16g and if you dont like it send it to deadbolt and upgrade it. than youll be so far out of range of any vf3* turbo

soundwave · 03-20-2005, 02:03 AM

EcuTek reflash by Gruppe-S
Ported VF34 turbo
Wrapped Gruppe-S V2 headers
Helix TMIC
Helix uppipe
Helix catless downpipe
Stromung 3" dual tip catback

Using 91 octane

MINO · 03-20-2005, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty

...what is it with all the kiddies lately neeeding dyno validation, here????

...it's as bad as wanting 'BOV's and CAI's

I agree, Uncle. I also find it foolish for people to ask for specific peak "whp".
I like to see an overall curve myself.

sandiegowrx · 03-20-2005, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty

...what is it with all the kiddies lately neeeding dyno validation, here????

...it's as bad as wanting 'BOV's and CAI's

yeah... especially since a nice before and after dyno plot with a respectable tuner is as worthless as a bov... I would rather have someone tell me about their brothers girlfriends second cousin who had 16g and how he said it felt faster than this other guys friend of a friend that he knew in highschool that had a vf22... but the 16g was in a dsm...

Uncle Scotty · 03-20-2005, 03:55 AM

My point is that the kiddies just gotta have their dicks dyno'd to prove something....well....boiz....go buy all the stuff.....and pay to ahve it done and then you WILL KNOW.

Crying about all this god damned 'dyno this and dyno that' is ridiculous.....GO PAY FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

nfx · 03-20-2005, 06:58 AM

running VF34 with fmi,motec,3",550 injectors,high flow fuel pump

it makes 18psi @ 3000rpm on 4th & 5th gear

car does 12.4-12.6 @ 111-115mph on street fuel
to this day I have not seen a VF22 or TD05,16g doing these trap speeds....20g is a different story tho

ps.dynos are for tuning....dragstrip for "how quick the car is"

deskwarmer · 03-20-2005, 07:51 AM

Quote:

My point is that the kiddies just gotta have their dicks dyno'd to prove something....well....boiz....go buy all the stuff.....and pay to ahve it done and then you WILL KNOW.

Geez, this guy sounds like he's answered too many questions lately.

Anyways, I would think spending a couple hundred bucks for a turbo is something most people want to do after some research. I don't how helpful the data you will get from this thread will be, but why hammer a guy for trying to make some kind of analysis of his options? I would think these forums are meant for these types of purposes. Why upgrade on a hint of whats best and not try to learn from whats been done?

jaypine · 03-20-2005, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfx

ps.dynos are for tuning....dragstrip for "how quick the car is"

Ageed, if you want to compare turbos, comparing timeslips & ETs would be better than comparing dynos. There is little or no standardization with dynos.

line · 03-20-2005, 11:27 AM

The dyno being for tuning is a great point, but it can be helpful to see the curves and the area under the curve not the final numbers. I would love for 16g, VF-30/34, P&P VF-22, and anyone else that thinks they have a setup that would mean my needs to tell me as much info as they have on there setup.

Im looking for about 260-280whp with a turbo that will spool as soon as possible and give me the most usable power(a nice beefy middle). If you know of anything that would meet there requirements let me know

P.S. nfx, your setup sounds amazing and its crazy you are getting that spool with a FMIC, you must have an amazing tune.

Diode663 · 03-20-2005, 12:00 PM

Motec and amazing tune.

unkadave · 03-20-2005, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by line

unkadave you have a dyno for that setup sounds pretty nice. Also does the P&P VF-22 spool about the same as the VF-34?

Yes 278whp 215?torque. Hard to read

sandiegowrx · 03-20-2005, 12:49 PM

All of the turbos you listed are good turbos and will get you to your goal. It also depends on how much $ you want to spend. There isn't as much info available for the 16g as there is for the vf34. There's just not enough people with them yet... although that is changing rather quickly. Despite this, I'd say just get the Super16g. It apparently has the spool of a regular 16g which is arguably as quick as the vf34, and it almost has the top end of the 18g. This should easily get you to your HP goal on pump gas.

unkadave · 03-20-2005, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfx

running VF34 with fmi,motec,3",550 injectors,high flow fuel pump

it makes 18psi @ 3000rpm on 4th & 5th gear

car does 12.4-12.6 @ 111-115mph on street fuel
to this day I have not seen a VF22 or TD05,16g doing these trap speeds....20g is a different story tho

ps.dynos are for tuning....dragstrip for "how quick the car is"

On a WRX?? 12.4 @115 VF34

?????????

My vf34 started running out of air at 5k.

sandiegowrx · 03-20-2005, 01:22 PM

his sig says GC8

line · 03-20-2005, 02:02 PM

sandiegowrx: you inf says you have a VF-34 and your still recommendin the 16g. Are you thinking about aking a swap your self?

I do love the idea of being about to upgrade my turbo and rebuild it very cheaply. Right now the 16g is winning in my book but I still want to see more info and hear more of what everyone thinks.

Uncle Scotty · 03-20-2005, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unkadave

On a WRX?? 12.4 @115 VF34

?????????

My vf34 started running out of air at 5k.

Like I say... and like I've said....it's all in the right combination of supporting mods and the tune....but nobody seems to believe me so I'm done here....

There ARE stock turbo cars running 12's.....so a 12.4/115 on a 34 is news????

Diode663 · 03-20-2005, 02:21 PM

There ARE stock turbo cars running 12's.....so a 12.4/115 on a 34 is news
I belive you, but can you provide a link to this car and its mods?

Uncle Scotty · 03-20-2005, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diode663

There ARE stock turbo cars running 12's.....so a 12.4/115 on a 34 is news
I belive you, but can you provide a link to this car and its mods?

DO YOUR OWN GOD DAMNED RESEARCH

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03-19-2005, 08:44 PM	#26
MINO Scooby Specialist Member#: 12841 Join Date: Nov 2001 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: jchattdesign.com	Here's my runs with the 16g. Starting with my current tune. This dyno does 235-245 whp for stock STIs. 91 Octane. HKS Header m2 uppipe (both wrapped) APS 3 in TBE STI injectors, walbro fp 16g (ported) 20w 50 oil Ecutec max 16.5psi (this chart also illustrates the importance of using the correct length of vacuum line. The ports are poorly angaled for the factory lines) 1 step colder iridium ngks My tuner stated that, in his experience, the 16g has a better curve than the vf 30-34 but the vf has more at the top. Previous run. Minus the header. Using a Unichip 17psi, godspeed dp and kakimoto. This dyno was not calibrated correctly at the time. I'm not sure what to compare it to other than the other 16g on this chart. He was running TXS FMIC, Shorty, TBE and a mix of race gas (probably 95-96): I've seen a current graph for his car with 300whp on deadbolts site. hope this helps. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

03-19-2005, 09:02 PM	#27
jaypine Scooby Newbie Member#: 50398 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cincinnati-Dayton Vehicle: 2003 WRX Wagon Silver	The two posted above are the ones I have. Similiar to the VF30/34. Most claim that it spools the same or faster with more midrange and top end. Plus it's upgradeable and rebuildable.

03-19-2005, 09:08 PM	#28
unkadave * Banned * Member#: 55525 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Careful with that Ax,.. Earl Vehicle: 02 wrx wgn 2.5 Keep Right	I had the vf34 because it spooled faster. It was really weak compared to a vf22 in a similar car. Got the vf22, P and P'd, put down 278whp. Loved it. I never noticed any lag, difference. But the vf22 did not act like a little girl at 5k to 7k, like the vf34 did. I did chew it up trying the secret ecu reset. Five seconds of, 5psi at 2,500 in third though.

03-19-2005, 10:43 PM	#29
line Scooby Specialist Member#: 76189 Join Date: Nov 2004 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: WRX: Parking Lot Racer in Training	unkadave you have a dyno for that setup sounds pretty nice. Also does the P&P VF-22 spool about the same as the VF-34?

03-19-2005, 11:49 PM	#30
Uncle Scotty NASIOC Supporter Member#: 16200 Join Date: Mar 2002 Vehicle: OK Houston we have an Uncle	...what is it with all the kiddies lately neeeding dyno validation, here???? ...it's as bad as wanting 'BOV's and CAI's

03-19-2005, 11:51 PM	#31
BigClunke Scooby Newbie Member#: 52488 Join Date: Jan 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: MI Vehicle: 2003 WRX MT WRB	i think i have heard that the 16g responds better to race gas and higher boost. i think more people need to start using the 16g before we start to develop a real knowledge base. so many people have used the vf series that we have tons of info on what works and dosent. the big 16g seems very impressive and i think the true potential will be revealed with a bit of time.

03-20-2005, 01:41 AM	#33
azn2yunr Scooby Specialist Member#: 67229 Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: SLC Vehicle: 9295 BC/gm6 winestone/funky blue	i already posted in responce but maybe i can be of more help. on paper (compressor chart) the 16g out pulls the 22. 16g is rebuildable and upgradeable. 22 or 34 is not. there is no noticeable difference in boost responce between vf3* and the 16g. heck there was no noticeable spool difference on my car from when it was stock with a vf11 and its an auto. its not like i am waiting for it to spool or anything. and its extremely streetable. it pulls at 15psi and could probaly go higher and hold its pressure all the way to redline. they were used on v2 stis - v4 and on 1996 wrx's. they were rated at 280 hp afaik and i have seen with my own eyes a 96 wrx swap (stock) match up with an 02 wrx that was fairly modded (utec, aps fmic, vf23, ect ect) at the track running similar times (within .5xx sec) not to mention the swaped car was a gc using a 1.8 tranny. ......sooooo. just get the 16g and if you dont like it send it to deadbolt and upgrade it. than youll be so far out of range of any vf3* turbo

03-20-2005, 02:03 AM	#34
soundwave Scooby Specialist Member#: 30370 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: i-club.com Vehicle: 2011 STi	EcuTek reflash by Gruppe-S Ported VF34 turbo Wrapped Gruppe-S V2 headers Helix TMIC Helix uppipe Helix catless downpipe Stromung 3" dual tip catback Using 91 octane

03-20-2005, 03:55 AM	#37
Uncle Scotty NASIOC Supporter Member#: 16200 Join Date: Mar 2002 Vehicle: OK Houston we have an Uncle	My point is that the kiddies just gotta have their dicks dyno'd to prove something....well....boiz....go buy all the stuff.....and pay to ahve it done and then you WILL KNOW. Crying about all this god damned 'dyno this and dyno that' is ridiculous.....GO PAY FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

03-20-2005, 06:58 AM	#38
nfx Scooby Newbie Member#: 42960 Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: OZ Vehicle: GC8 wrx blck	running VF34 with fmi,motec,3",550 injectors,high flow fuel pump it makes 18psi @ 3000rpm on 4th & 5th gear car does 12.4-12.6 @ 111-115mph on street fuel to this day I have not seen a VF22 or TD05,16g doing these trap speeds....20g is a different story tho ps.dynos are for tuning....dragstrip for "how quick the car is"

03-20-2005, 11:27 AM	#41
line Scooby Specialist Member#: 76189 Join Date: Nov 2004 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: WRX: Parking Lot Racer in Training	The dyno being for tuning is a great point, but it can be helpful to see the curves and the area under the curve not the final numbers. I would love for 16g, VF-30/34, P&P VF-22, and anyone else that thinks they have a setup that would mean my needs to tell me as much info as they have on there setup. Im looking for about 260-280whp with a turbo that will spool as soon as possible and give me the most usable power(a nice beefy middle). If you know of anything that would meet there requirements let me know P.S. nfx, your setup sounds amazing and its crazy you are getting that spool with a FMIC, you must have an amazing tune.

03-20-2005, 12:00 PM	#42
Diode663 Scooby Newbie Member#: 70325 Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Morris County, NJ Vehicle: 03 Wrx Sedan WTB Rear Lateral Links	Motec and amazing tune.

03-20-2005, 12:49 PM	#44
sandiegowrx Scooby Newbie Member#: 41743 Join Date: Aug 2003 Chapter/Region: SCIC	All of the turbos you listed are good turbos and will get you to your goal. It also depends on how much $ you want to spend. There isn't as much info available for the 16g as there is for the vf34. There's just not enough people with them yet... although that is changing rather quickly. Despite this, I'd say just get the Super16g. It apparently has the spool of a regular 16g which is arguably as quick as the vf34, and it almost has the top end of the 18g. This should easily get you to your HP goal on pump gas.

03-20-2005, 01:22 PM	#46
sandiegowrx Scooby Newbie Member#: 41743 Join Date: Aug 2003 Chapter/Region: SCIC	his sig says GC8

03-20-2005, 02:02 PM	#47
line Scooby Specialist Member#: 76189 Join Date: Nov 2004 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: WRX: Parking Lot Racer in Training	sandiegowrx: you inf says you have a VF-34 and your still recommendin the 16g. Are you thinking about aking a swap your self? I do love the idea of being about to upgrade my turbo and rebuild it very cheaply. Right now the 16g is winning in my book but I still want to see more info and hear more of what everyone thinks.

03-20-2005, 02:21 PM	#49
Diode663 Scooby Newbie Member#: 70325 Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Morris County, NJ Vehicle: 03 Wrx Sedan WTB Rear Lateral Links	There ARE stock turbo cars running 12's.....so a 12.4/115 on a 34 is news I belive you, but can you provide a link to this car and its mods?