I think I just blew up my engine.

powerlabs · 03-24-2005, 01:29 AM

'99 EJ 25 SOHC block with 78k miles or so; engine ran fine, never gave me any trouble. I have all the bolt ons (CAI, full exhaust, pulley, LW Flywheel, S-AFC, etc) but no boost, no raised redline; nothing particularly bad for the engine...
Slammed on the gas in 1st at 3000RPM. Revs climbed to 5500RPM or so as usual with good acceleration. At 5500RPM it felt like it had hit fuel cut, then engine died without making any usual sounds. I don't see any leakage from headgaskets either. It will turn over and try to start but will stutter (regardless of throttle input) and stall immediatelly afterwards.
I am guessing the timing belt broke. I'm also hoping that doesn't mean the valves are bent. Does anyone have any other guesses? Its at a local shop right now and they should have it looked at tomorrow.

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silver04rs · 03-24-2005, 05:16 AM

sorry

(thought you needed some sort of reply)

f4phantomii · 03-24-2005, 07:16 AM

Actually, that's a good question....

Does the Boxster arrangement have an interference type design where the pistons and valves occupy the same space, but not at the same time?

I know the 4G63 on the old DSM's and the EVO is that way....you lose the timing belt, you tend to shoot the valve through the top of the head. I knew one guy who had it happen and it actually dented his hood.....from the INSIDE! Ouch.

-Michael

Vacca Rabite · 03-24-2005, 08:19 AM

If that is what happened, it will be at the least a new head, pistons, all engine top end. Porbably cheaper just to get a new engine.

Hopefully not. Good luck!

Zach

benrock05201 · 03-24-2005, 08:19 AM

SOHC are not interferance engines so your valve SHOULD be OK.

Ben

Acostafan · 03-24-2005, 08:31 AM

If it was the timing belt the motor wouldn't start or even try to start. I know this because I've broken timing belts on Subies. Fuel pump maybe?

vile · 03-24-2005, 09:10 AM

definitely not timing belt, as mentioned, your car would not have started, but i have to say that it would still be able to crank

if you suspect any engine damage, a quick test would be to perform a compression or leak down test.

G-shock · 03-24-2005, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f4phantomii

...Does the Boxster arrangement...

Its "BOXER"!

...you're like the idiot car salesmen at Subaru who are clueless and only heard the word "boxster" because of Porsche, and think that translates to the "H" engine arrangement!

watts · 03-24-2005, 09:33 AM

little harsh there buddy

powerlabs · 03-24-2005, 09:34 AM

Well, if it was the fuel pump, then it wouldn't have started either, would it?
It cranks and starts pretty much as normal. On starting it will rev up to maybe 1000RPM for a very brief instant, then stutter and stall. One time as it stalled it backfired out of the intake. Pressing the gas makes no difference whatsoever. Any ideas what it could be then? Like I said; the engine was running great, it was fully warmed up, I ran it WOT for 1 second in 1st gear and it just hit fuel cut and died.

Subie Gal · 03-24-2005, 09:44 AM

cam sensor? crank sensor? something simple?

no fluids spilling?

no BANG when it stopped?

got to be something simple....

get it into a shop.

good luck
jamie
www.subiegal.com

Boost-Free Subee · 03-24-2005, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benrock05201

SOHC are not interferance engines so your valve SHOULD be OK.

Ben

wrong. they are interference engines. my buddy lost a timing belt and smacked 2 valves. but the heads were fine. new vavles, and he was rollin again.

Mulder · 03-24-2005, 09:48 AM

One of the above, or skipped belt (not broken), maybe huge intake leak.

Acostafan · 03-24-2005, 10:09 AM

I broke a timing belt at the redlight in an 85 GL-10. No bent valves. Mechanic(who was a former dealer mechanic) says they are not interference engines. Maybe your buddy floated his valves? Jamie, can you confirm this?

dsc · 03-24-2005, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-shock

Its "BOXER"!

...you're like the idiot car salesmen at Subaru who are clueless and only heard the word "boxster" because of Porsche, and think that translates to the "H" engine arrangement!

So, "boxster" doesn't refer to Porsche's flat engine? What does it refer to?

Diz · 03-24-2005, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acostafan

I broke a timing belt at the redlight in an 85 GL-10. No bent valves. Mechanic(who was a former dealer mechanic) says they are not interference engines. Maybe your buddy floated his valves? Jamie, can you confirm this?

That 85 GL-10 had an EA series motor. It is possible to bend a valve in the SOHC EJ25 if the T-belt goes.

Acostafan · 03-24-2005, 10:25 AM

BoxSter is the name of one of Porsche's convertibles. Boxer is the terminology applied to engines with a horizontal piston layout. Subaru and Porsche both use boxer engines.

dwx · 03-24-2005, 10:25 AM

My vote is with Mulder and skipped timing belt. Same thing happened on my 1995 2.2L. The EJ25 engines are interference engines but generally the motor stops fast enough you'll just bend a couple valves. Unless some foreign material drops into the cylinder usually the head/piston are fine.

Boxster is the name of a Porsche sport coupe. Boxer is an engine design.

Acostafan · 03-24-2005, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diz

That 85 GL-10 had an EA series motor. It is possible to bend a valve in the SOHC EJ25 if the T-belt goes.

I stand corrected! Thanks!

powerlabs · 03-24-2005, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subie Gal

cam sensor? crank sensor? something simple?

no fluids spilling?

Didn't notice anything.

Quote:

no BANG when it stopped?

Nope, no bang, no smoke, just felt like I hit redline, hesitated, then stalled.
I'm leaning towards skipped teeth on the belt. Its in the shop, but it will be a couple days before they will look at it

Thanks for all the suggestions so far. I'm still hoping the engine won't have to be taken apart for this, because I simply don't have the funds for that right now.

Matt Monson · 03-24-2005, 11:28 AM

I am glad to see all the misinformation got cleared up before I popped in. lol

Anyways, my first thought is fuel. If for some reason your AFC settings are off or your front O2 sensor is bad, then you may have dumped a piss-ton of fuel in there and fouled out your plugs. Have you pulled one of the plugs to see what they look like? This has happened to more than one RS owner over the years...

imp2.5 · 03-24-2005, 11:50 AM

Sam, that totally sucks. Do you smell fuel when you turn the key? I would just check to see if you're getting the main components to starting a car like fuel and spark. If you're getting fuel and spark then it has to be something a little more serious. But look on the bright side, if your engine is shot, then you can just do a wrx swap

, then a few bolt ons and you can smoke me

. I guess you're not going to Chicago this weekend

Tim Sanderson · 03-24-2005, 12:03 PM

Pull the timing cover and check the timing marks. Then check your idlers and water pump. if the belt skipped then pull the plugs and turn it over by hand to see if your hitting any valves. Don't try starting it again till you find out what's wrong, you may F it up more.

powerlabs · 03-24-2005, 12:19 PM

Yeah, this could not possibly have come at a worst time: I need the car to go to school and to Chicago, and I have no money to fix it if it costs more than a couple hundred bucks.
It is definitely getting fuel and spark because it will start; it just chokes and dies immediatelly after starting.
I have a new wideband O2 sensor with a wideband / narrowband signal converter installed now which occasionally makes the car idle very rich or very lean, but the S-AFC is tuned mildly (+8% at 2000RPM, -4% at redline) and the engine runs perfectly at 12.5 - 13.0 while at WOT. I would think if the plugs were fouled it wouldn't try to start?
I think the shop is going to check the timing belt, then the plugs and compression. Does anyone know how much replacing the timing belt will cost, typically?
If the belt broke and the pistons hit the valves then all bets are off; I'll have it put back together and towed into my garage for a long time until I can afford to have it fixed.

Matt Monson · 03-24-2005, 12:30 PM

If you didn't hear a catastrophic crunch then your timing belt didn't snap. This is an interference engine and you would have heard metal on metal, and most likely broken a cam gear and the cover.

In light of the wideband O2 sensor info, I am going to stand by my original assessment. If the wiring for the sensor somehow messed up, you absolutely could have dumped way too much fuel in there and fouled your plugs. With fouled plugs, the car would still try to start and run, but they will just be too wet and messy to get a clean spark and stay running. Pull the plugs and inspect them. Should take YOU 20 minutes to do it. If you pay someone $60 an hour to inspect your plugs, you are throwing your money away. Don't start spending any money until you have done the basic assessments of the situation yourself. We can talk you through it...

03-24-2005, 01:29 AM	#1
powerlabs Scooby Specialist Member#: 45790 Join Date: Oct 2003 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: New Jersey Vehicle: 2006 Corvette C6 Z51 SUPERCHARGED	I think I just blew up my engine. '99 EJ 25 SOHC block with 78k miles or so; engine ran fine, never gave me any trouble. I have all the bolt ons (CAI, full exhaust, pulley, LW Flywheel, S-AFC, etc) but no boost, no raised redline; nothing particularly bad for the engine... Slammed on the gas in 1st at 3000RPM. Revs climbed to 5500RPM or so as usual with good acceleration. At 5500RPM it felt like it had hit fuel cut, then engine died without making any usual sounds. I don't see any leakage from headgaskets either. It will turn over and try to start but will stutter (regardless of throttle input) and stall immediatelly afterwards. I am guessing the timing belt broke. I'm also hoping that doesn't mean the valves are bent. Does anyone have any other guesses? Its at a local shop right now and they should have it looked at tomorrow. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

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03-24-2005, 05:16 AM	#2
silver04rs Scooby Specialist Member#: 38825 Join Date: Jun 2003 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Temecula, CA	sorry (thought you needed some sort of reply)

03-24-2005, 07:16 AM	#3
f4phantomii Scooby Specialist Member#: 58504 Join Date: Mar 2004 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Ready to try OpenECU.org!!! Vehicle: 2004 STi w/o wing Aspen White / Silver	Actually, that's a good question.... Does the Boxster arrangement have an interference type design where the pistons and valves occupy the same space, but not at the same time? I know the 4G63 on the old DSM's and the EVO is that way....you lose the timing belt, you tend to shoot the valve through the top of the head. I knew one guy who had it happen and it actually dented his hood.....from the INSIDE! Ouch. -Michael

03-24-2005, 08:19 AM	#4
Vacca Rabite Scooby Specialist Member#: 55491 Join Date: Feb 2004 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Dallastown, Pa Vehicle: Fit, 1968 Jeep m715, 1976 VW Porsche 914	If that is what happened, it will be at the least a new head, pistons, all engine top end. Porbably cheaper just to get a new engine. Hopefully not. Good luck! Zach

03-24-2005, 08:19 AM	#5
benrock05201 Scooby Specialist Member#: 57149 Join Date: Mar 2004 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Vermont Vehicle: TMHK Thomas B Hanks First 6	SOHC are not interferance engines so your valve SHOULD be OK. Ben

03-24-2005, 08:31 AM	#6
Acostafan Scooby Specialist Member#: 67398 Join Date: Aug 2004 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Chattanooga, TN Vehicle: 2002 Now with 100% RDA of 2.5l Goodness!!!	If it was the timing belt the motor wouldn't start or even try to start. I know this because I've broken timing belts on Subies. Fuel pump maybe?

03-24-2005, 09:10 AM	#7
vile Scooby Specialist Member#: 32371 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: formerly known as mem. # 10615 Vehicle: '02 t-rex wagon platinum	definitely not timing belt, as mentioned, your car would not have started, but i have to say that it would still be able to crank if you suspect any engine damage, a quick test would be to perform a compression or leak down test.

03-24-2005, 09:33 AM	#9
watts Scooby Newbie Member#: 75575 Join Date: Nov 2004 Vehicle: 2000 Impreza 2.5RS	little harsh there buddy

03-24-2005, 09:34 AM	#10
powerlabs Scooby Specialist Member#: 45790 Join Date: Oct 2003 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: New Jersey Vehicle: 2006 Corvette C6 Z51 SUPERCHARGED	Well, if it was the fuel pump, then it wouldn't have started either, would it? It cranks and starts pretty much as normal. On starting it will rev up to maybe 1000RPM for a very brief instant, then stutter and stall. One time as it stalled it backfired out of the intake. Pressing the gas makes no difference whatsoever. Any ideas what it could be then? Like I said; the engine was running great, it was fully warmed up, I ran it WOT for 1 second in 1st gear and it just hit fuel cut and died.

03-24-2005, 09:44 AM	#11
Subie Gal GC84Ever Super Moderator Member#: 301 Join Date: Sep 1999 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: WA Vehicle: 2001 2.5 RS/70 Van 02 WRX Rally Stud	cam sensor? crank sensor? something simple? no fluids spilling? no BANG when it stopped? got to be something simple.... get it into a shop. good luck jamie www.subiegal.com

03-24-2005, 09:48 AM	#13
Mulder Trust no one Moderator Member#: 11170 Join Date: Oct 2001 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NYC Vehicle: 02 WRX 05 GTO/11 Sonata(!)	One of the above, or skipped belt (not broken), maybe huge intake leak.

03-24-2005, 10:09 AM	#14
Acostafan Scooby Specialist Member#: 67398 Join Date: Aug 2004 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Chattanooga, TN Vehicle: 2002 Now with 100% RDA of 2.5l Goodness!!!	I broke a timing belt at the redlight in an 85 GL-10. No bent valves. Mechanic(who was a former dealer mechanic) says they are not interference engines. Maybe your buddy floated his valves? Jamie, can you confirm this?

03-24-2005, 10:25 AM	#17
Acostafan Scooby Specialist Member#: 67398 Join Date: Aug 2004 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Chattanooga, TN Vehicle: 2002 Now with 100% RDA of 2.5l Goodness!!!	BoxSter is the name of one of Porsche's convertibles. Boxer is the terminology applied to engines with a horizontal piston layout. Subaru and Porsche both use boxer engines.

03-24-2005, 10:25 AM	#18
dwx Scooby Guru Member#: 8343 Join Date: Jul 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Atlanta, GA Vehicle: 2005 2012 Jeep 2013 DGM BRZ	My vote is with Mulder and skipped timing belt. Same thing happened on my 1995 2.2L. The EJ25 engines are interference engines but generally the motor stops fast enough you'll just bend a couple valves. Unless some foreign material drops into the cylinder usually the head/piston are fine. Boxster is the name of a Porsche sport coupe. Boxer is an engine design.

03-24-2005, 11:28 AM	#21
Matt Monson Scooby Guru Member#: 832 Join Date: Jan 2000 Chapter/Region: RMIC Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO Vehicle: 99 2.5RS, '85 911 '73 914 and 2012 BRZ	I am glad to see all the misinformation got cleared up before I popped in. lol Anyways, my first thought is fuel. If for some reason your AFC settings are off or your front O2 sensor is bad, then you may have dumped a piss-ton of fuel in there and fouled out your plugs. Have you pulled one of the plugs to see what they look like? This has happened to more than one RS owner over the years...

03-24-2005, 11:50 AM	#22
imp2.5 Scooby Newbie Member#: 11354 Join Date: Oct 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Eagan, MN Vehicle: 2009 LGT BF3 tag: Snbrd4evr	Sam, that totally sucks. Do you smell fuel when you turn the key? I would just check to see if you're getting the main components to starting a car like fuel and spark. If you're getting fuel and spark then it has to be something a little more serious. But look on the bright side, if your engine is shot, then you can just do a wrx swap , then a few bolt ons and you can smoke me . I guess you're not going to Chicago this weekend

03-24-2005, 12:03 PM	#23
Tim Sanderson Scooby Guru Member#: 6486 Join Date: May 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: S.E. wisconsin Vehicle: 00 Impreza 2.5 RS Blue Ridge Pearl	Pull the timing cover and check the timing marks. Then check your idlers and water pump. if the belt skipped then pull the plugs and turn it over by hand to see if your hitting any valves. Don't try starting it again till you find out what's wrong, you may F it up more.

03-24-2005, 12:19 PM	#24
powerlabs Scooby Specialist Member#: 45790 Join Date: Oct 2003 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: New Jersey Vehicle: 2006 Corvette C6 Z51 SUPERCHARGED	Yeah, this could not possibly have come at a worst time: I need the car to go to school and to Chicago, and I have no money to fix it if it costs more than a couple hundred bucks. It is definitely getting fuel and spark because it will start; it just chokes and dies immediatelly after starting. I have a new wideband O2 sensor with a wideband / narrowband signal converter installed now which occasionally makes the car idle very rich or very lean, but the S-AFC is tuned mildly (+8% at 2000RPM, -4% at redline) and the engine runs perfectly at 12.5 - 13.0 while at WOT. I would think if the plugs were fouled it wouldn't try to start? I think the shop is going to check the timing belt, then the plugs and compression. Does anyone know how much replacing the timing belt will cost, typically? If the belt broke and the pistons hit the valves then all bets are off; I'll have it put back together and towed into my garage for a long time until I can afford to have it fixed.

03-24-2005, 12:30 PM	#25
Matt Monson Scooby Guru Member#: 832 Join Date: Jan 2000 Chapter/Region: RMIC Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO Vehicle: 99 2.5RS, '85 911 '73 914 and 2012 BRZ	If you didn't hear a catastrophic crunch then your timing belt didn't snap. This is an interference engine and you would have heard metal on metal, and most likely broken a cam gear and the cover. In light of the wideband O2 sensor info, I am going to stand by my original assessment. If the wiring for the sensor somehow messed up, you absolutely could have dumped way too much fuel in there and fouled your plugs. With fouled plugs, the car would still try to start and run, but they will just be too wet and messy to get a clean spark and stay running. Pull the plugs and inspect them. Should take YOU 20 minutes to do it. If you pay someone $60 an hour to inspect your plugs, you are throwing your money away. Don't start spending any money until you have done the basic assessments of the situation yourself. We can talk you through it...