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Old 03-24-2005, 12:54 PM   #1
WRXout
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Default i just noticed my fuelmap is incomplete?

i filled the incomplete columns in red, i have 05 sti and STOCK INJEC SIZE 550, UTEC INJEC SIZE set to 590cc could this be bad?
Code:
Fuel Map
      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]
      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]
      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]
      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]
      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]
      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]
      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]
      [0]    [3.7]    [3.7]    [3.7]      [4]      [3]    [2.5]    [2.5]    [2.5]    [2.5]    [2.5]
      [0]    [4.7]    [4.7]    [4.7]    [4.9]      [4]    [3.5]    [3.5]    [3.5]    [3.5]    [3.5]
      [0]    [4.9]    [4.9]    [4.9]    [4.9]    [4.9]    [3.8]    [3.8]    [3.8]    [3.8]    [3.8]
      [0]    [4.9]    [4.9]    [4.9]    [5.5]      [5]    [4.2]    [4.2]    [4.2]    [4.2]    [4.2]
      [0]    [2.1]    [2.1]      [3]    [3.3]      [3]      [3]    [3.3]      [4]    [3.7]    [3.5]
      [0]    [1.6]    [1.6]    [2.5]    [2.8]    [2.5]    [3.3]    [3.8]    [4.1]    [4.2]    [4.1]
      [0]    [0.6]    [0.6]    [1.5]    [1.8]    [2.5]    [3.3]    [3.8]    [4.1]    [4.2]    [4.2]
      [0]    [0.6]    [0.6]    [1.5]    [1.8]    [2.1]      [3]    [2.9]    [2.9]    [2.9]      [3]
      [0]    [0.6]    [0.6]    [1.3]    [1.6]    [1.9]    [2.8]    [2.7]    [2.7]    [2.7]    [2.8]
      [0]    [0.4]    [0.4]    [1.1]    [1.4]    [1.5]    [2.8]    [2.7]    [2.7]    [2.8]    [2.9]
      [0]   [-0.1]   [-0.1]    [0.6]    [0.9]    [1.6]    [2.2]    [2.2]    [2.2]    [2.7]    [2.7]
      [0]   [-0.1]   [-0.1]    [0.6]    [0.9]    [1.6]    [2.2]    [2.7]    [2.3]    [2.6]    [2.7]
      [0]   [-0.1]   [-0.1]    [0.6]    [0.9]    [1.6]    [1.8]    [2.1]    [1.9]      [2]    [1.9]
      [0]   [-1.9]   [-1.9]   [-0.6]    [0.4]    [0.2]   [-0.4]   [-0.3]   [-0.3]    [0.8]    [0.8]
      [0]   [-1.9]   [-1.9]   [-0.6]    [0.4]   [-0.3]   [-0.3]   [-0.3]   [-0.1]    [0.8]    [0.8]
      [0]     [-1]   [-1.3]   [-0.6]    [0.4]    [0.4]    [0.4]    [0.3]    [0.4]    [0.9]    [1.8]
    [0.2]   [-1.3]   [-1.3]   [-0.6]    [0.4]    [0.4]    [0.4]      [0]   [0.5]    [1.3]    [1.9]
    [0.5]   [-1.3]   [-1.3]   [-0.6]    [0.4]    [0.4]    [0.4]      [0]   [0.5]    [1.3]    [1.5]
    [0.4]     [-1]     [-1]   [-0.3]    [0.4]    [0.4]    [0.2]   [-0.3]    [0.3]    [0.9]    [1.3]
    [0.4]     [-1]     [-1]   [-0.3]    [0.1]    [0.1]   [-0.1]   [-0.6]      [0]    [0.6]    [1.3]
    [0.5]   [-0.9]   [-0.9]   [-0.2]    [0.2]    [0.2]      [0]   [-0.5]    [0.1]    [0.8]    [1.3]
    [0.5]   [-0.9]   [-0.9]   [-0.2]    [0.2]    [0.2]      [0]   [-0.5]    [0.1]    [0.8]      [1]
    [0.5]   [-0.9]   [-0.9]   [-0.2]    [0.2]    [0.2]      [0]   [-0.5]    [0.1]    [0.8]      [1]
    [0.5]   [-0.9]   [-0.9]   [-0.2]    [0.2]    [0.2]      [0]  [-0.5]    [0.1]    [0.8]      [1]
    [0.5]   [-0.9]   [-0.9]   [-0.2]    [0.2]    [0.2]      [0]  [-0.5]    [0.1]    [0.8]      [1]
    [0.5]   [-0.9]   [-0.9]   [-0.2]    [0.2]    [0.2]      [0]   [-0.5]    [0.1]    [0.8]      [1]
    [0.5]   [-0.9]   [-0.9]   [-0.2]    [0.2]    [0.2]     [0]   [-0.5]    [0.1]    [0.8]      [1]
      [0]   [-0.9]   [-0.9]   [-0.2]    [0.2]    [0.2]      [0] [-0.5]    [0.1]    [0.8]      [1]
      [0]   [-0.6]   [-0.6]    [0.1]    [0.8]    [0.8]    [0.9]    [0.6]    [1.1]    [1.1]    [1.1]
      [0]   [-0.6]   [-0.6]    [0.1]    [0.8]    [0.8]    [0.9]    [0.6]    [1.1]    [1.1]    [1.1]
      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]
      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]
      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]
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Old 03-24-2005, 12:55 PM   #2
happasaiyan
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how do you figure?
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Old 03-24-2005, 12:56 PM   #3
WRXout
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it doesnt seem right, at high rpms im going back to stock injectors? when im set to 590?
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Old 03-24-2005, 01:00 PM   #4
happasaiyan
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you do realize that a '0' in the map does not mean stock ecu settings.

the utec has its own underlying fuel map. a '0' in a fuel map other than map 0 just mean there is no percentage of fuel correction applied to the underlying fuel map.
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Old 03-24-2005, 01:04 PM   #5
WRXout
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ohhhh rger, thank you for clearing that up, you always seem to be their for me, thanks bro
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Old 03-24-2005, 01:05 PM   #6
happasaiyan
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no prob.
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Old 03-24-2005, 01:26 PM   #7
feiron
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happasaiyan = utec guru on patrol
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Old 03-24-2005, 01:56 PM   #8
happasaiyan
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nah, im just a normal guy who learns from the gurus
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Old 03-24-2005, 01:57 PM   #9
WRXout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feiron
happasaiyan = utec guru on patrol
AFFIRMITIVE, lol, i been playing to mcuh counter strike
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Old 03-24-2005, 02:20 PM   #10
WRXout
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one more question if i take timing out should i add fuel?
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Old 03-24-2005, 02:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXout
one more question if i take timing out should i add fuel?
No. Usually you can do the opposite - less timing advance and less fuel, vs more advance and fuel. With less advance and fuel, though, you run the risk of having high EGTs. With more advance, you are increasing cylinder pressure, which increases power to a certain point (MBT), but also adds stress to internal components.
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Old 03-24-2005, 02:52 PM   #12
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heh. depends.
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Old 03-24-2005, 03:15 PM   #13
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just out of curiousity... what is the MBT for the STIs? does the 2.5 block holds more timing advance than the 2.0?
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Old 03-24-2005, 03:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feiron
just out of curiousity... what is the MBT for the STIs? does the 2.5 block holds more timing advance than the 2.0?
Depends on the stuff around the engine. It's fair to say that at any level of tune (stock to huge turbo), it's probably octane limited. It also varies based on RPM and VE, so there's no single number that's "correct", even for a single example of an engine.
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Old 03-24-2005, 03:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serendipity
Depends on the stuff around the engine. It's fair to say that at any level of tune (stock to huge turbo), it's probably octane limited. It also varies based on RPM and VE, so there's no single number that's "correct", even for a single example of an engine.
lets assume, stock internals and turbo... with 93
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Old 03-24-2005, 03:58 PM   #16
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Depending on the air fuel ratio, rpm, and many other things, mbt will vary. I don't think you can fairly compare the sti engine to the wrx one for many reasons.

peace
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Old 03-24-2005, 04:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happasaiyan
you do realize that a '0' in the map does not mean stock ecu settings.

the utec has its own underlying fuel map. a '0' in a fuel map other than map 0 just mean there is no percentage of fuel correction applied to the underlying fuel map.
This only applies if you are NOT running Utec Open Loop Fueling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by feiron
just out of curiousity... what is the MBT for the STIs? does the 2.5 block holds more timing advance than the 2.0?
My understtanding of MBT is it will happen when peak cylinder pressure happens ~12-15* ATDC. Most of the time on a turbo motor you will be knock limited before you get to MBT. Because you are knock limited and every motor has a different limit, for many different reasons. No one can tell you X timing wil make MBT.
Under the same conditions and octane fuel the larger bore will allow a bit more timing on the 2.5.

TMS
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Old 03-24-2005, 04:56 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadScientist
This only applies if you ARE running Utec Open Loop Fueling.

TMS
fixed.
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Old 03-24-2005, 05:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happasaiyan
fixed.

Doh


Mmmm.....Homebrew

TMS
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Old 03-24-2005, 07:14 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadScientist
This only applies if you are NOT running Utec Open Loop Fueling.


TMS
Fair (with correction), but still the point remains - 0 doesn't mean anything other than 0. It's perfectly normal to have your fuel map contain a progression from -0.3 to 0 to 0.3, whether you're running OLF or not.

And the UTEC's background map is very close to the factory static map anyway.
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Old 03-25-2005, 06:46 PM   #21
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The lines left blank in that fuel map are areas of the map that you do not have access to from the UTEC's edit maps menu. While Pete is the real guru with this stuff, I believe that they are just place holders.

-Nathan
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Old 03-25-2005, 07:08 PM   #22
happasaiyan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmyeti
The lines left blank in that fuel map are areas of the map that you do not have access to from the UTEC's edit maps menu. While Pete is the real guru with this stuff, I believe that they are just place holders.

-Nathan
nathan...you gotta read the whole post.

at first, i thought he was asking the question you answered. but then realized he was just wondering why he had '0's in his map (ie. at 5000rpms @ 70 load).
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Old 03-26-2005, 11:20 PM   #23
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Oops! In that case, sometimes it just works out that way. There is nothing weird about it as the injector pulse width is being calculated by the background map that the end user doesn’t have access to or by the stock ECU depending on your main OLF parameter setting. I agree that it looks weird in the map though and I find myself compelled to put a -.1 or +.1 in those cells for aesthetics. Typically I can fight that urge, although it would be helpful to customers to have a "this cell left intentionally blank" sign to go along with the fuel map.

-Nathan
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Old 03-27-2005, 02:16 AM   #24
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I think the most important idea here is that a "0", or -.2, or +4, or whatever is irrelevant. I see where you're coming from being new to this so I understand why you ask. Wheather you are tuning your fuel map, or you have a tuner doing this for you, or are starting off with a TXS base map, the numbers you are seeing are based on target AFR's, i.e. you want to be at 11:1 at 4800rpms. Your only concern here is to manipulate the cells in the map so that this happens. And, if you end up with a "0" then so be it. You hit your AFR mark. Try not to make more out of it than that and you're straight.

Todd
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