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Old 03-24-2005, 10:48 AM   #1
ranger5oh
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Have a Nice Day? Street Tuner : Where do I begin Tuning?

Ok, I am pretty new to tuning. I have gotten my AP hooked up, everythign is running smoothly. I have been doing some data logging. My question is this:

Where do I being adjusting? What are good controls to start with?
- My guess is I want to start tuning the target boost and the ignition timing.

How do I lean/richen the A/F ratio with the tuner?

As a rule of thumb, do I want to advance my timing as much as possible without causing detonation?

I guess what I am looking for is sort of a flow chart of tuning, somethign like:
(adjust target boost) -----> (data log) ---> (check a/f ratio, knock) ---> (if no knock, advance ignition) ----> (data log) -----> (etc etc)

Doesnt have to be a flow chart, words will suffice, just a "general guidlines."


Someone please help. I am excited to get started, but im not sure if I want to start with the chicken or the egg.... if you know what I mean.


Thanks a ton in advance!
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Old 03-24-2005, 10:55 AM   #2
fmowry
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Well, you could start with the UTEC tuning thread to get the basics of timing advance, boost, and AF ratios and then apply the recommended targets to the ST.

Frank
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Old 03-24-2005, 11:00 AM   #3
terry61oz5
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Default re

I know jappasaiyan is using ST as well as several others. I think the flow is something like back timing down, boost target, a/f, increase timing in small increments. Your a bit ahead of me since I've not had a chance to datalog yet. I'm stuck with a leaky gasket causing bad things with my a/f right now. Been studying how components are interrelated where things are calculated from something else.
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Old 03-24-2005, 11:00 AM   #4
happasaiyan
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depending on your mods, this will vary in difficulty.

since you have been doing data logging, look over your logs. get familiar with what all the values mean, and what they are doing.

this is a little complicated without having a WBO2, since you are just relying on the stock semi-wideband O2 sensor...which is terribly inaccurate below 12:1. it gives values down to 11.1:1, but those arent very accurate.

specifically, look at what rpms x load cells you are visiting. these are the areas where you will make most of your changes. since youre relatively stock (im assuming), first play around with the boost...when you bump up the boost, you will be visiting new load cells. if you are running outside the map, you will have to rescale the map, but this SHOULDNT be necessary with the stock turbo.

while playing with the boost and getting closer to your targets, keep note of any knock...if you experience any, you will have to retard the ignition advance values in the cells around where you experienced it. the tuning as a whole isnt going to be cut and dry. depending on the mods you do/dont have and depending on the gas you have will dictate where you will be able to go with the maps for your car.

chances are you might be able to add a degree or 2 ignition advance, and be able to remove a bit of fuel. again, hard without a WBO2. to remove fuel (lean out) the mixtures, you can hit the '-' key, or make the AFR value higher in the cells you want to change.

my suggestion (im not a pro tuner by any means, so take it FWIW) is that make positive ignition advance changes in the knock correction maps and make negative ignition advance changes in the main ignition map. that is probably the safer way.
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Old 03-24-2005, 11:39 AM   #5
terry61oz5
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Default Alt, humidity, temperature

I've been looking at some relationships among altitude, humidity and ambient air temperature relating to power production. I've been looking at them to get a feel for what to take into account when doing a responsible tune. My assumption is that humidity displaces oxygen and reduces performance. What I found was: 1) at very cold temperatures changes in humidity have very little effect. But at hi temps (100F)it has much more effect (10% form 0-100% humidity) 2) As altitude increases other changes have less effect. Here is an extreme example: I'm at sealevel with zero humidity and its 0 Farenheit (best chance for big power?). Now I instantly go to 4000ft in altitude with 100% humidity and 100 degrees Farenheit. That comes out to a 34.6% decrease in power in my estimation. So I ask myself how far do I tune for extremes. I will see sealevel and zero Farenheit and maybe 4000+ feet elevation but not together. I will take note of elevation changes I see often seem to be around 0-2000ft. Temp -7 to 100ish. Humidity I'm guessing from 20ish up to 100. Any thoughts on this?
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Old 03-24-2005, 11:39 AM   #6
ranger5oh
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Thanks so far guys... keep the comments coming!

Oh, and right now I am running:
K&N Typhoon
Helix Catted DP
Borla Hush
Omori EGT and Boost gauges
I may be buying a WB02 soon if it makes things that much easier. is A/F really the only thing we are concerned about? It kinda seems like it is.

also have some swaybars.. but cant tune those
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Old 03-24-2005, 12:26 PM   #7
mbiker97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger5oh
As a rule of thumb, do I want to advance my timing as much as possible without causing detonation?
The beauty of using a reflash is that the ECU will automatically advance timing until it knocks. You don't have to do it.

Get your boost where you want it. Then check your fueling.
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Old 03-24-2005, 01:17 PM   #8
ranger5oh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry61oz5
I've been looking at some relationships among altitude, humidity and ambient air temperature relating to power production. I've been looking at them to get a feel for what to take into account when doing a responsible tune. My assumption is that humidity displaces oxygen and reduces performance. What I found was: 1) at very cold temperatures changes in humidity have very little effect. But at hi temps (100F)it has much more effect (10% form 0-100% humidity) 2) As altitude increases other changes have less effect. Here is an extreme example: I'm at sealevel with zero humidity and its 0 Farenheit (best chance for big power?). Now I instantly go to 4000ft in altitude with 100% humidity and 100 degrees Farenheit. That comes out to a 34.6% decrease in power in my estimation. So I ask myself how far do I tune for extremes. I will see sealevel and zero Farenheit and maybe 4000+ feet elevation but not together. I will take note of elevation changes I see often seem to be around 0-2000ft. Temp -7 to 100ish. Humidity I'm guessing from 20ish up to 100. Any thoughts on this?
From What I have been reading, most people make a summer map, and a winter map if you live in a variable climate zone. My other thought is that if you tune for the winter map, you will be fine in the summer, prolly just run a little rich. If you just tune for the summertime, your car will possibly detonate in the winter because of the denser air.
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Old 03-24-2005, 01:59 PM   #9
crazymikie
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Here's my $.02.

I'd start by making sure the MAF corrections are correct for the K&N intake. I'm guessing the process to do that would be similar to the UTEC, but I'm not sure.

Anyone who can explain, I'd be interested in hearing.

Thanks
Mike
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Old 03-24-2005, 02:14 PM   #10
drees
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Definitely get a WBO2 sensor. You absolutely need one to do any real fuel tuning at WOT. Otherwise you are just guessing.
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Old 03-24-2005, 02:23 PM   #11
Uncle Scotty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger5oh
also have some swaybars.. but cant tune those

Sure you can.....by varying tire pressure and alignment specs and by changing bushings.....
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Old 03-24-2005, 04:09 PM   #12
happasaiyan
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k&n intake MAF dia is same as stock. nothing needed there.
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Old 03-25-2005, 11:27 AM   #13
mrbell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty
Sure you can.....by varying tire pressure and alignment specs and by changing bushings.....
Actually, that would be tuning tire pressures and bushings...
...but you can still "tune" an adjustabl swaybar...
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Old 03-25-2005, 12:35 PM   #14
ranger5oh
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It'd be pretty sweet if I could electronically adjust my swaybars with the AP.. but I dont think that'll happen

Anyway, thanks for the input guys. I really dont want to buy a friggen WBO2, but I guess I should. All these parts just make me want to mod my car more. Sigh.... when does the HP thirst ever get quenched?
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Old 03-25-2005, 02:41 PM   #15
darksands
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NEVARRRR!!!... Im soo tempted to get a VF39 right now... MORE POWA!!!
I am also trying to learn how to tune. I want to learn and understand before I get the street tuner but it seems that I need to look at my own datalogs to understand more about my car. I think ill go pick up a ST today.
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