Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Sunday September 21, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-26-2005, 11:53 PM   #1
bottlediger
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 47958
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: York Pa
Default EM for 450 WHP STI dyno tuned Utec or Cobb AP AT

Ok guys I currently have both a Utec (not hooked up) and a Cobb AP. Now right now I have cobb stage 2 on my car. but I have sitting here my 450 whp set up. Now I was planning on selling the Accessport and hooking up the utec to get a dyno tune for the 450whp set up. Which do you think would be better engine managment wise to use, the utec or the cobb AP with Access tuner softwear for such high horse power. I know the utec has been around a while and a lot of tuners know how to tune it. And the AP is a very new guy so Im worried that I wouldnt get as good of a tune as i would with the utec. I just love how the AP gets ride of the speedo rev limiter (147mpg) and gets rid of the DAM exaust cel's. Let me know what you think. I need to have everything squared away by MAY.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
bottlediger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2005, 08:35 AM   #2
bottlediger
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 47958
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: York Pa
Default

bump guys this is a question I really need to figure out
bottlediger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2005, 09:25 AM   #3
finnRex
RIP Donny
Moderator
 
Member#: 21095
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Miss you, Charlie Murphy.
Vehicle:
RIP KTH & LMFH
'09 Crystal red Tintcoat

Default

If there are any tuners around where you live that can tune the ST, I'd stick with what you got. I will say this though, you won't go wrong with either choice. It's all in the hands of the tuner, really.

(obligatory chop busting) So, you get 147mpg? Dang, what kind of gas do you run?


Mika
finnRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2005, 01:46 PM   #4
Optimus Prime
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 69847
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cybertron
Vehicle:
2010 Evolution X

Default

Are you nuts? (no offense)

Sell both your AccessPort and your UTEC and get a Hydra. I don't understand people who put together a 450whp car and dilly dally with cheap EMS solutions. Also, why would you want to screw around with MAF crap when you can get rid of it with the Hydra.

Unless your around 350whp or under, I see no reason why you would want to run anything else except full stand alone. And if it is due to emissions, 450whp won't pass anyways.
Optimus Prime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2005, 01:56 PM   #5
funsti
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 42744
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Fort Mill, SC
Vehicle:
2005 STU STi White
Addicted to AutoX

Default

Well some people want a car that's scary fast AND has cruise control, lol.

I hope the Hydra people can get cruise working at some point!
funsti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2005, 02:15 PM   #6
Jaxx
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 177
Join Date: Aug 1999
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Boise,Idaho,USA
Vehicle:
The 93 Imp W/EJ20K
flat black

Default

utec will do it as will ST

any one that can do tuning shoudl be able to do ST
Jaxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2005, 02:32 PM   #7
blinguskahn
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 39301
Join Date: Jul 2003
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: The Haystack
Vehicle:
STi 05 8cm FPRed
WRX 06 Blue FP20G

Default

You can use both. I use a UTEC over ECUTek Reflash. The reflash is a safe safe baseline tune that scales the injectors and sets baseline timing and fuel maps. The UTEC is then used for more agressive tunes for different types of gas and conditions.

Good Luck.
blinguskahn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2005, 02:50 PM   #8
BOXER28
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 64756
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: queens ny
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimus Prime
Are you nuts? (no offense)

Sell both your AccessPort and your UTEC and get a Hydra. I don't understand people who put together a 450whp car and dilly dally with cheap EMS solutions. Also, why would you want to screw around with MAF crap when you can get rid of it with the Hydra.

Unless your around 350whp or under, I see no reason why you would want to run anything else except full stand alone. And if it is due to emissions, 450whp won't pass anyways.
i second going with the hydra!!! otherwise go with a ecutek reflash and utec combo. imo...
BOXER28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2005, 02:57 PM   #9
2phless
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 69343
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: 'tween Lewisville&Clemmons NC
Vehicle:
1998 TransAm cnvrtbl
Black

Default

I run AP in the background to hide the rear O2 CEL and ditch the speed limiter, The UTEC does the rest.
2phless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2005, 08:42 PM   #10
bottlediger
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 47958
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: York Pa
Default

yeah I know you use both 2phless, I just have to sell one so I can get some money for tunning. And I would love to go with a hydra or AEM, but 1. I dont know much about them. 2. They are very expensive. 3. I dont know where I could get one tuned around here. 4. I cant pass emissions. 5. I really dont know what a MAP is all about etc.

Now if theres a way to pass enmissions with a standalone, please let me in on it and I would highly consider getting one.
bottlediger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2005, 10:04 AM   #11
Optimus Prime
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 69847
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cybertron
Vehicle:
2010 Evolution X

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bottlediger
yeah I know you use both 2phless, I just have to sell one so I can get some money for tunning. And I would love to go with a hydra or AEM, but 1. I dont know much about them. 2. They are very expensive. 3. I dont know where I could get one tuned around here. 4. I cant pass emissions. 5. I really dont know what a MAP is all about etc.

Now if theres a way to pass enmissions with a standalone, please let me in on it and I would highly consider getting one.
Price wise they aren't significantly much more than most EMSs, although since you have both the AccessPort and the UTEC, the price would have been close.

Tuning wise you can ask around, I'm sure there are some good places to tune it where you are and now a days for someone to pick up an EMS and tune it shouldn't be a big deal as long as they've used other comparable EMSs before.

Emissions wise, you won't pass with a stand alone, as it doesn't use OBDII any more. Although you still have a chance of not passing with 450whp on any setup!

Now why I suggested the Hydra was because it is a little more adaptable to different situations (gas, weather, altitude) so you don't need to tinker with it if it has been tuned correctly. The way you are talking sounds like you want to hit 450whp safely ad not have to monkey around with the tuning on your own. If that is your case, I would not aim for 450whp, but a safe 400whp. It's not fun having a car, although fast, that you have to have tuned everytime some variable changes.
Optimus Prime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2005, 10:13 AM   #12
bottlediger
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 47958
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: York Pa
Default

Good read optiums thanks
bottlediger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2005, 12:36 PM   #13
GameOver
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 23145
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: soCal sux
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STi
BLUE

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blinguskahn
You can use both. I use a UTEC over ECUTek Reflash. The reflash is a safe safe baseline tune that scales the injectors and sets baseline timing and fuel maps. The UTEC is then used for more agressive tunes for different types of gas and conditions.

Good Luck.
Hahahha, you are not doing anything special by having that ecutek reflash other than 'hidding CEL codes' maybe speed limiter...!!! ...your UTEC WILL OVERRIDE/ IS OVERRIDING every attempt the ecutek reflash does to adjust itselt (meaning any internal ecu adjustment to compensate for humidity, temperature, altitude, etc.)

UTEC produces the 'output signal' it is set for by the user/tuner regardless of the input signals it receives from the stock ecu....reflashed or not.

Sooo, you just wasted ~$700 on a ecutek reflash.
GameOver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2005, 01:21 PM   #14
Optimus Prime
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 69847
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cybertron
Vehicle:
2010 Evolution X

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bottlediger
Good read optiums thanks
Thanks. If you are going for ultra reliabiility on pump gas with the parts you have, I would recommend a safe EcuTek (and just EcuTek, not the UTEC piggybacking it) tune on pump gas...probably cost as little as 750 with the tuning (that's what I was quoted). I am aiming for 350 awhp and this is what I have chosen (with a 20G or green, still haven't decided).
Optimus Prime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2005, 03:10 PM   #15
burrito007
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 53393
Join Date: Jan 2004
Default

I would say screw the $400 ur gonna get for selling the AP, or the $600 for the utec. for now what you should do is buy the Street Tuner, set up a low whp tune as a base that way you could always just unplug the utec when variables change, or you need to pass emissions. then take your utec and tune it to 450whp...

you could always learn to tune it yourself ... or not
burrito007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2005, 05:39 PM   #16
Soon2Bgreat
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2258
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Irvington, New York, USA
Vehicle:
1999 gc8 ver7 6mt
GT35R 504.7whp;)

Default

Optimus/Boxer--Have you guys used the hydra? I'm just asking because recommending a standalone based on second hand info. (even one as 'potentially' good as the hydra) can get a bit hairy...it is still a standalone. I think for 95% of applications the ST/Ecutek/UTEC will work fine for people and the need for the hydra is minimized. I'm in no way saying it's a bad EM solution, it's just that it's not as 'proven' as the other solutions. (although slowly gaining accolades)

P.S. You would probably get more adaptability out of the ecutek/utec than a hydra in terms of weather corrections altitude etc. btw.
Soon2Bgreat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2005, 05:42 PM   #17
bottlediger
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 47958
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: York Pa
Default

im thinkin ill just stick with the utec tune then huh? Any way to beat that speedo limiter or passing emssions like the AP?
bottlediger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2005, 05:47 PM   #18
GeorgeRex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 51695
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Northern VA
Vehicle:
2004 STi
Aspen White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GameOver
Hahahha, you are not doing anything special by having that ecutek reflash other than 'hidding CEL codes' maybe speed limiter...!!! ...your UTEC WILL OVERRIDE/ IS OVERRIDING every attempt the ecutek reflash does to adjust itselt (meaning any internal ecu adjustment to compensate for humidity, temperature, altitude, etc.)

UTEC produces the 'output signal' it is set for by the user/tuner regardless of the input signals it receives from the stock ecu....reflashed or not.

Sooo, you just wasted ~$700 on a ecutek reflash.
GeorgeRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2005, 07:30 PM   #19
Optimus Prime
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 69847
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cybertron
Vehicle:
2010 Evolution X

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soon2Bgreat
Optimus/Boxer--Have you guys used the hydra? I'm just asking because recommending a standalone based on second hand info. (even one as 'potentially' good as the hydra) can get a bit hairy...it is still a standalone. I think for 95% of applications the ST/Ecutek/UTEC will work fine for people and the need for the hydra is minimized. I'm in no way saying it's a bad EM solution, it's just that it's not as 'proven' as the other solutions. (although slowly gaining accolades)

P.S. You would probably get more adaptability out of the ecutek/utec than a hydra in terms of weather corrections altitude etc. btw.
I haven't worked with a Hydra, but I have worked with an Accel Gen 7(which in my opinion, is better than the Hydra). And what do you consider the upper 5% who need a stand alone? 700whp? 1500whp? What's the number that is in that upper 5%? I personally wouldn't want a piggyback controlling my engine when it's at it's limit...and 450whp on a stock motor is pretty close to the limit.
Optimus Prime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2005, 10:15 PM   #20
Soon2Bgreat
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2258
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Irvington, New York, USA
Vehicle:
1999 gc8 ver7 6mt
GT35R 504.7whp;)

Default

like i said, just trying to make sure people fully understand what they are jumping into with a standalone and make sure that it's truly the best solution for them.
Soon2Bgreat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2005, 11:43 PM   #21
Optimus Prime
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 69847
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cybertron
Vehicle:
2010 Evolution X

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soon2Bgreat
like i said, just trying to make sure people fully understand what they are jumping into with a standalone and make sure that it's truly the best solution for them.
But it is better to jump to stand-alone before you push the limits of a piggyback.
Optimus Prime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2005, 08:24 AM   #22
Soon2Bgreat
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2258
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Irvington, New York, USA
Vehicle:
1999 gc8 ver7 6mt
GT35R 504.7whp;)

Default

Yes but i'm not sure why you consider ecutek/utec/st a piggyback when they are not. This has all been discussed before, pm me if you want to discuss it in more detail.
Soon2Bgreat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2005, 11:23 AM   #23
scooby24
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 56414
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Olathe, KS
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT 5MT
PSM

Default

What variable is a hydra going to be able to do that a Utec cannot?
scooby24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2005, 11:37 AM   #24
WRC_Obsessed
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 16268
Join Date: Mar 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Brighton/NNJ
Vehicle:
2004 STi
WRB

Default

The guys in Puerto Rico are currently using the UTEC to tune an STi that was 591whp the last I read.
WRC_Obsessed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2005, 12:52 PM   #25
scooby24
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 56414
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Olathe, KS
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT 5MT
PSM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRC_Obsessed
The guys in Puerto Rico are currently using the UTEC to tune an STi that was 591whp the last I read.
Yeah is that the guys that ran 10.4 in the 1/4? I heard they were on Utec too...that should speak wonders in itself.

I heard people bagging on the Utec all the time (never utec owners of course) and I've never understood it. What is the huge improvement a stand alone is going to have?
scooby24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Looking for 04 WRX Turboxs Utec or Cobb AP 2004jmwrx Private 'Wanted' Classifieds 2 06-03-2007 11:07 PM
Utec Or Cobb Ap imprezzing Engine Management & Tuning 0 05-26-2006 02:39 PM
UTEC or Cobb AP for mods listed TecnoWRX Engine Management & Tuning 6 04-25-2006 04:36 PM
help me choose! utec or cobb ap! nxwrxfx Engine Management & Tuning 7 01-20-2006 12:09 PM
Utec or COBB AP stevo2234 Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 10 05-10-2005 09:05 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.