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Old 03-22-2005, 11:11 PM   #1
bugman1964
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Default boost detonation

quetion for yall.

I just finished my swap which is as follows.

ej20g with 22t heads guessing the cr is around 9:1
ej22t injectors ej18 fuel pump
vf10 8psi off of waste gate.

whats happening is at half to fullthrotle at rpms above 3.5- 4k im gettign detonation.

im planning on installign the ej22t fuel pump once i can figure out how to cut the connector and splice it in and sfely have it in the gas tank.

Any other ideas on how to cheaply fix this. I would love to run an engine managment but i dont have the money to do it.
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Old 03-22-2005, 11:21 PM   #2
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sounds like you are not getting enough fuel via small injectors/low fuel pressure
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Old 03-22-2005, 11:23 PM   #3
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You really need engine management, its cheaper then replacing your engine. Forget the EJ22t pump get a walbro, and a safc would be a big help too. What ECU are you using?
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Old 03-22-2005, 11:28 PM   #4
bugman1964
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im using the ej18 ecu.
The reason i was going ot use the 22t pump was the fact that i already have one. I was also going to bolt in a rising rate preasure regulator.( which i also already have)

I was thinking it was a fuel suplly issue.

I thought the injectors would be big enough since were basically using the ej22t fuel system and turbo. is it the higher cr thats doing me in with the fuel?
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Old 03-22-2005, 11:37 PM   #5
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The ej22t injectors are almost twice the flow of the NA ej18 injectors, I cant believe it runs at all. I would say its a combo of fuel problem and to much timing. The stock pump is more then enough for the power you are making. Check your fuel filter.
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Old 03-23-2005, 12:08 AM   #6
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are you surprised it runs because it should be running hella rich?

would you recomend not doing the ej22t pump and rising rate preasure regultaor?
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Old 03-23-2005, 12:26 AM   #7
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Yes it should run rich. I would not do a RRFPR until you figure out the reason for the detonation. If it is running lean I would get an afc. The RRFPR is a really ghetto way to solve fuel trouble. If you do run a RRFPR you really need a walbro pump. I dont know the specs on a ej22t pump but I would say its marginally better then the stock pump. A stock wrx pump might be a better upgrade.

Are you sure you are using ej22t injectors? IIRC they are pink and will only work in EJ22T rails. Did you check your fuel pressure?
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Old 03-23-2005, 12:35 AM   #8
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there deffinetly the 22t pinks.i am using the 22t fuel raisl as well.I didnt think of checking the fuel preasure. Do you know what the spec should be?

Any ideas on inexpensive timing control?

or can this be over come with fuel?
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Old 03-23-2005, 12:52 AM   #9
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~40 psi is good. A gauge that can be viewed under full load/boost would be good. Under boost you should see ~48psi. The 9:1 CR is whats killing you. Thats about the CR of a NA EJ18 and you are putting 8 psi on top of that. At the very least you need to get the fuel curve near perfect and use good gas. They make piggy back timing controls.... just another patch. I normally dont recommend aftermarket ECUs but for your setup no factory ECU will work well.
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Old 03-23-2005, 12:58 AM   #10
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yeah the cr is a calculated guess based on the diffrence of the cfm's of the 20g heads vs the 22t heads.

so what would your recomend i do?
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Old 03-23-2005, 01:11 AM   #11
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1. Check fuel pressure
2. Get a fuel controller
3. Wideband it
4. Hope it stops det
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Old 03-23-2005, 01:19 AM   #12
bugman1964
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any recomendations for a cheap fuel controller. ie the apexi for 350 is to much rith now.

heres a noob question what makes an afc better than a rising rate?
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Old 03-23-2005, 01:36 AM   #13
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Ability to control fuel at idle, wide open and every where in between. RRFPR just boosts fuel pressure under boost.
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Old 03-23-2005, 01:41 AM   #14
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so could i use a rising rate as a temporary solution since the detonation is only at higher rpms under boost or is there a cheap afc?
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Old 03-23-2005, 11:51 AM   #15
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Couple of comments for technical accuracy.
1. This car has EJ22t pinks
2. The Legacy Turbo fuel pump flows more than a WRX
3. The EJ18 is 10:1 CR and guys regularly run 8psi of non-intercooled boost on them with kits. The CR of this engine is not the issue.

I am thinking the quick temorary fix is the EJ22T fuel pump and an MBC to step down the boost to 5-6psi until an AFC can be afforded.

Also, Diz and I spoke about this last night and he is willing to lend hit Torque chip to see if it helps. The Torque chip enrichs the fuel and may give it enough juice to avoid the detonation. The Ej18 ECU just advances timing so damned much above 4000rpms that you've got to have more fuel in there...
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Old 03-23-2005, 12:40 PM   #16
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The compression ratio for a EJ18 is 9.5:1 but no sense in arguing over .5

He is alreading running on wastegate boost an MBC will not lower this, The wastegate will need to be resprung if he wants lower boost. The fuel pump is not the problem. I dont know how this car even idles, he should be extremly rich all over.

HAHA torque chip...thats the answer to all his trouble
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Old 03-23-2005, 12:48 PM   #17
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lol torque chip hahahha
wow matt you actaully said that...

IMHO using a 1.8 ecu is absolute madness but how about an emanage ... its actually perfect for this application. as you need timing control MORE than you need fuel control.. and use the G injectors if you can 425 vs 390

also get the constant speed walburito pump

FWIW the 93 service manual says 10 to 1 compression
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Old 03-23-2005, 12:49 PM   #18
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hye matt im tlaking ot diz to try to understand the fuel pump wiring but am still slightly confused by it.
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Old 03-23-2005, 01:25 PM   #19
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I think its foolish to put a 10 year old EJ22t pump in your car. If you bought a new ej22t pump then you are even more foolish. Just my opinion
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Old 03-23-2005, 02:19 PM   #20
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Ok,
Let me put this out there for Bugman so you people stop throwing out options that are not options. He has next to ZERO $$$ to throw at this. Obviously an E-manage would be a total and complete fix. Yes, and AFC would be the next step back. But he can't afford any of those right now. He wanted to get it built and running and will do the appropriate tuning once $$$ allow. But for right now, he is just trying to get the car less in danger of blowing up. I reiterate, he already owns an EJ22T fuel pump. That equals FREE!(actually he paid me $20 lol) He also has access to the RRFPR. Yes, these are old skool ghetto fixes, but they are fixes that many people have used before on such bastard builds.

As for the Torque chip comments? Think what you like. There are many people in the RMIC that use these on their cars and have for years. They aren't some magic fix to all that ails you or a portal to 30hp, nor are they genuine EM. But in this situation, it may be enough of a change to get his little engine out of the danger zone...

As for the richness? It doesn't have idle issues like many of the people who have used the pinks on a 1.8l ECU before. This might be because he is still on his stock fuel pump. Of course an AF meter would help, but that goes back to the need for $$$...
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Old 03-23-2005, 06:27 PM   #21
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almost fixed

swapped the22t fuel pump its so much better. the detonation is only very slight and it verys when it happens some times i can rev it to 5.5 before it hapens other times its 4.5 but its not as much and its deffinetly less maybe with the torque chip itll give me that last little bit of fuel thats needed.

now the only question is power level it doesnt seem like the power on the higher part of the band is what it should be (or maybe its just me) also in 3-5 gear it doesnt seem like the turbo spools as well(maybe because the diverter valve isnt all the way plumbed yet.

i purchased a a/f ratio gauge so we can monitor that. we just have to find a way to mount it.
the idle is still dead on no problems.im thinking its cause its not going into just a standard ej18 its going into a ej20g which the larger volume can help absorb some of the richness
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Old 03-23-2005, 10:57 PM   #22
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do you have the G injectors

they would help
much better to be rich than lean
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Old 03-24-2005, 10:10 AM   #23
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Jacob -

I really don't think you should be driving the car much until we get some guages hooked up. Figure out where the problem spots are & address them accordingly. You've waited this long to get the thing running, a little longer isn't going to hurt.

I'll see you guys tonight.
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Old 03-24-2005, 10:37 AM   #24
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The G injectors were sold off with the heads and manifold. We'll have a much better idea of what exactly is going on once we install the A/F gauge and boost gauge tonight. Personally, I am leaning towards timing control more than anything else. Sure, you can dump a bunch of fuel in there and make it stop detonating, but if you pull a few degrees of timing, there should be plenty of fuel going in there for where the car currently stands...
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Old 03-25-2005, 12:28 AM   #25
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hooked up the af gauge and boost gauge were boosting to 8 psi wich is waste gate.we seem to be gettign plenty of fuel assuming the af gauge is wired in right wire.now we have to figure out how to fix the timing
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