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View Poll Results: What should I do?
GetStreetTUNER its as good as EcuTEK 75 59.06%
Are you crazy? Have you not read the "Cobb Nightmare" thread? Wait for usertuanble EcuTEK 18 14.17%
Can't wait? Don't get the ST get a regular EcuTEK flash+DD until the usertuanble version comes out 34 26.77%
Voters: 127. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-01-2005, 08:14 PM   #1
keyser_soze
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Question EcuTEK vs. CobbStreet Tuner Poll

The title says it. I have decided to go with the "tune the stock ECU route" vs. Piggyback (i.e. UTEC) and Standalone (i.e. Hydra).

I've read the Cobb StreetTUNER manual cover to cover, have a good understading of its capabilities and see no isses with the product whatsoever minus the following:

1. The "Cobb Nightmare" thread < basically Cobb's poor reputation for tuning
2. No success stories and no big name tuners using the product (i.e. PDX Tuning, Kingpin etc) If this thing truly as good as EcuTEK and some (i.e. has live tuning capability) and its is cheaper than a EcuTEK and Deltadash combo, why non of our respected tuners are utilizing the tool?

Its like the product came out and I thought its going to blow up and everyone be all over it but it is as if no one even cares?

Regardless I am considering it, looking at its features I can't really tell where how it could be inferior to EcuTEK?

Why EcuTEK:
1. They seem to have more engineering and well put together.
2. PDX, Kingpin, ESX, MZM, Prodrive etc all use the tool

Please if you have only an accessport and one of the stage flashes don't chime in here. I like to hear only from experts that have experience with either one the two software programs NOT just the Accessport flash users.
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Old 04-01-2005, 09:03 PM   #2
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I only have an accessport, but i think part of the reason for the slow take off of the software is alot of people have the utec/ekutek/hydra set up already. This product has not been available that long and has not had that much exposure. I am looking at getting this software soon as it seems much more convenient for ME.

I wish you luck in your quest though.

Joe
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Old 04-01-2005, 09:31 PM   #3
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StreetTuner is great, get it... we could use some more users out there!
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Old 04-01-2005, 10:53 PM   #4
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Street Tuner is now 100% working.

There were a small number of insignificant bugs, but that should be expected with a new piece of software.

I just started tuning with it, and I can say that it is very nice.

The tuners aren't using it yet because the Pro-Tuner isn't out yet, plus ST just came out very recently.

One of the main reasons why some tuners may have second thoughts on the Street Tuner at this point, is because there is no way to lock out others from seeing the maps....(Intelectual Property of the Tuner). With Ecutec and Utec they can lock the editing features out.

But just my humble opinion..... Street Tuner will soon revolutionize Subaru Tuning, once all the Egotistical Tuners get the chips off their shoulders....

Last edited by buzz313th; 04-01-2005 at 11:08 PM.
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Old 04-01-2005, 11:12 PM   #5
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The Cobb Nightmare thread doesnt' highlight Cobb's tuning ability at all. It is one story about one person's interaction with Trey Cobb. He wasn't satisfied and went elsewhere for his tuning needs.

All big name tuners can and will support and tune the AccessTuner, both the consumer and pro versions. Software and tuning are identical, it's just getting used to the interface.

For myself, I'm afraid I'll soon be leaving the Cobb Clan and defecting to ECUtek. I am no longer happy with the performance of my AccessPort, but unlike others online, I place 100% of the blame on myself because:

1. One size fits all reflashes (Cobb, Vishnu, ECUtek, etc.) almost never run as safely or with as much power as they claim.
2. I was an idiot and added so much to my Stage 2 that I am currently choking it.

I just wish everyone else would realize what I came to realize and hold their "crappy tuning" (Cobb, Vishnu, ECUtek, etc.) 100% blameless as I do.
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Old 04-02-2005, 02:04 AM   #6
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Unabomber, thanks for manning up and blaming yourself. I seriously respect that.



Mika
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Old 04-02-2005, 03:56 AM   #7
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I'm looking forward to seeing some big time tuners (Kingpin, PDX Tuning, KTR, Hamann) giving their impressions of the tuning capabilities with the Street Tuner.
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Old 04-02-2005, 04:23 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04STiLover
I'm looking forward to seeing some big time tuners (Kingpin, PDX Tuning, KTR, Hamann) giving their impressions of the tuning capabilities with the Street Tuner.
Ouch....Vishnu's not a big time tuner . Anyway, I couldnt see Shiv dipping too far into the ST or PT software, if at all.
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Old 04-02-2005, 05:11 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drews_WRX
Ouch....Vishnu's not a big time tuner . Anyway, I couldnt see Shiv dipping too far into the ST or PT software, if at all.

If the profit margins go up significantly for the tuners by using Access ECU Technology, then you will see everyone switch.

As far as I know, the tuner may not have to pay a liscence fee for each Different Car. That alone is a big insentive.
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Old 04-02-2005, 10:51 AM   #10
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What i've been thinking about is that the end user can buy the ST software and technically have anyone tune it. It's his software and can do with as he pleases. A tuner could charge dyno time and tuning time but not have to pay licensing for the tuning tool, much like the utec.
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Old 04-02-2005, 01:53 PM   #11
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I'd like to see the EcuTek Personal Tuner before I make a decision. I probably will never tune my car, but I would like to be able to bring the software to a tuner of my choice, and not just a reseller of the product. I think the biggest benefit of the StreetTuner and the EcuTek personal tuner is the fact that you can bring it to the tuner of your choice. Many of the tuners you list are great tuners in the Subaru community, but there are also a lot of world class tuners out there that aren't available to out market because they focus there efforts on professional motorsports and for people who have an "in" with them, I think you might get to see some amazing results.
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Old 04-02-2005, 04:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber
The Cobb Nightmare thread doesnt' highlight Cobb's tuning ability at all. It is one story about one person's interaction with Trey Cobb. He wasn't satisfied and went elsewhere for his tuning needs.

All big name tuners can and will support and tune the AccessTuner, both the consumer and pro versions. Software and tuning are identical, it's just getting used to the interface.

For myself, I'm afraid I'll soon be leaving the Cobb Clan and defecting to ECUtek. I am no longer happy with the performance of my AccessPort, but unlike others online, I place 100% of the blame on myself because:

1. One size fits all reflashes (Cobb, Vishnu, ECUtek, etc.) almost never run as safely or with as much power as they claim.
2. I was an idiot and added so much to my Stage 2 that I am currently choking it.

I just wish everyone else would realize what I came to realize and hold their "crappy tuning" (Cobb, Vishnu, ECUtek, etc.) 100% blameless as I do.
Why not use the Street Tuner to retune your car since you already have the Accessport?Do you not have faith in it?
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Old 04-02-2005, 05:08 PM   #13
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The real issue at hand, and the one you should be asking, is:

Which EM reflash solution does a better job of controlling the motor?
Which one gives the broadest range of access to the maps in the ECU?
Which one gives the best, most reliable end result when tuned by a professional?
Which solution is the most flexible for changing weather conditions and gasoline?
Which one has the best track record?
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Old 04-02-2005, 05:17 PM   #14
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I have EcuTek and I like it...I donít have to worry about anything because its set to all my mods. Itís basically a custom tune. On the other hand it can be a pain because if your having problems with your boost (like me) then you have to mail your ecu back to phoenix to get it reflashed. Or it you upgrade your turbo then you have to send your ecu to get it reprogrammed again. As for Cobb I know that much about their product. I hear good things and bad. My friend has a 05 STI and ran stage 1 on AP. Got it dynod and had a A/F ratio done and ran off the charts rich. So it can go either way. In the end itís up to you.

Things to think about
Ecutek
1. Is the ecutek tuner near you?
2. If not do you have a spare vehicle to drive for up to a week (yes a week).
3. Upgrades mean that you have to send your ecu to get it reflashed, which is an automatic 100.00

AcessPort
1. Flat rate of 600. I think?
2. As many reflashes (100 max. I believe)

Thatís all I can think of.
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Old 04-02-2005, 06:13 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dumdum
Why not use the Street Tuner to retune your car since you already have the Accessport?Do you not have faith in it?
Another part of my honesty is realizing I don't know poop about tuning. I'm a low buck/plug and play kind of guy so this is why I am going over to the dark side. If I could tune and had the money to buy all the supporting mods, I'd go for it. I even called Cobb to see about just a custom tune by driving up to Salt Lake City. After their very broad quote of 2-4 hours dyno and tuning time ($400-$800), I started looking at other options.

<insider information about Cobb Tuning>
Cobb is moving again. They will be moving in July into a bigger facility. They will still be in Salt Lake City, just in a bigger place.
</insider information about Cobb Tuning>
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Old 04-03-2005, 03:35 AM   #16
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Thanks for all the replies and votes. Few things to keep in mind, my ultimate goal is and requires that I have access to the ECU and maps and have control to make changes as I wish and log data etc. richy_21 on my top post, I say my tuner uses EcuTEK and he likes it alot and has had great success with it (i.e. 11.68 @120+MPH w/JDM Spec C and SR55 + his EcuTEK flash).

Again I appreciate everyone's response, but it seems like responses are coming from most people with either the Access Port unit and stage flashes or people with a EcuTEK flash. Please keep in mind what I am wondering about is quite different; I am wondering about the EcuTEK and Cobb user tunable softwares and capabilities, advantages, and disadvantages.

I really like to hear from Clark and/or Jeff specifically as for their tuning estabilishment it is $1000 ordeal to get the Cobb ST and try it out and they already have the EcuTEK (i.e. what me and other users going to get is going to be similar or exactly the same at best).

What I am worried and concern is that the mark up price that can be hidden in a EcuTEK flash. The tuners will tell you they have to pay a licensing fee (which I do beleive they must) but how much is that exactly. The reason I am saying this is that a friend of mine has an Evo and from his furom's links he has sent me there is a guy that actually is around here as well under the name Dynaflash which does flashes which from what I understand are basically EcuTEK flashes....for 300~400 bucks tops (again from what I recall don't qoute me)....this is not a dyno tuned session...this is where you send in your unit and have it flashed and mailed back....regardless if this dude still making money from charging 300 bucks that tells me EcuTEK doesn't take more than 100~150 bucks out of it....now most subaru tuners would charge you around 600~700 for basic non-dyno tuned flash and 900 to + 1K for dyno tuned flash....so that is all icing after the 300 bucks...so you get dyno tuned their cost is 150~200 and you paid about 700~1000 for a dyno tune ...plus then you gotta go back and spend more tuning time if you make any modes..... Again i'm not saying they don't deserve or shouldn't charge 1000 bucks for a good tune...after all there are all sorts of costs....dyno uses electricity and electricity is not free! etc etc....

Now lets do this with Cobb Street tuner....you buy the ST direct from cobb 1050...the tuner gets Zero dollers...you show up with it for a tune...every doller they ask for is for the dyno tune....how many hours 1? ... 2?.....3....? OK lets say 3 how much per hour 100? 150? 175? 200? OK lets say 200....that is 600 bucks....

OK i guess you get the point here....w/ EcuTEK you can just bundle things up and hide the costs....with ST you cant.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
All of the above are simply my opinion and I could be very well wrong about some or all of it....as far as how much the tuner has to kick back to EcuTEK per license etc etc....Furthermore...it is not directed to any or all tuners....just trying to make sense of it all.....Please refrain from breakin my balls and gettin of topic....

Discuss....

peace
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Old 04-03-2005, 04:11 AM   #17
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I got the reflash ECUTek and it is nice! I am waiting on the tuneable option to come out.
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Old 04-03-2005, 04:25 AM   #18
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Ecutek all the way
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Old 04-03-2005, 09:00 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richy_21

Things to think about
Ecutek
1. Is the ecutek tuner near you?
2. If not do you have a spare vehicle to drive for up to a week (yes a week).
3. Upgrades mean that you have to send your ecu to get it reflashed, which is an automatic 100.00

AcessPort
1. Flat rate of 600. I think?
2. As many reflashes (100 max. I believe)

Thatís all I can think of.
Yeah but he is comparing the Ecutek to the STREET Tuner software,not the Acessport.The software almost makes your ECU a standalone.You can create your own personal maps to run what ever turbo or other bolt on parts you want PLUS file share your maps with other Street Tuner users.
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Old 04-03-2005, 09:43 AM   #20
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I'm waiting on ecutek tuneable solution as well. I think the pricing model is irrevelant as long as it's competitive. As long as there's resale value in the product I'm ok. I honestly think it's BS that it's tied to ecu permanently, and you have to sell your ecu to sell your software. Hopefully they are changing this, because if I have to outlay XXX dollars and will get only a fraction of it back I will go ST. I believe the COBB product is very powerful, and feature rich. Honestly it's too soon to make this comparison because ecutek personal programmer is not out and ST is still very new. If anything cobb designed the product to be Ecutek tuner-friendly. At this point the real difference between them is the live tuning capability,on the fly map switching, which to me are not deciding factors. What is important is price, tuner support, driveability, resale value, and product stability. I believe the ecutek product will be more stable than the Cobb.
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Old 04-03-2005, 01:12 PM   #21
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..n/m

Last edited by richy_21; 04-03-2005 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 04-03-2005, 02:25 PM   #22
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http://www.accessecu.com/products/ap-comparisons.html

This is not exactly what you are looking for but should help you see some of the advantages/disadvantages.

And for keyser: You are reffering to MZM he is running a completly different setup. twin scroll, avcs, 6 speed, ej207, reflash, he has a complete JDM sti spec c set up which cannot be compared to a regular wrx or STi. And PLEASE check around on tuner reputation.

another thing you may want to wait for is the protuner. this would mean you only need the AP and then have someone else tune it which would probably be less. also think about adding a wideband/egt to tune yourself which also adds to the price. Look at spending some serious cash either way. hope that helps. and good luck in your decsision.
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Old 04-03-2005, 05:31 PM   #23
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scoobdude not to get off topic... i did mention he has a JDM spec C which is 2.0 of course...he ran his 11.68 w/APS SR55 i was there. FYI he is selling his twin scroll setup check his website under used for sale item. again i don't wanna get off topic and get into tuner bashing etc...he is down the street from me and i've seen so many happy EJ257 tuned by him that are monsters with very happy customers. as far as un-happy customers...i know/heard of them - EVERY TUNER IN THE WORLD HAS THEM.

as far as pro-tuner i'm not familar with the product but as far as I know it is something along the current EcuTEK product...you go in they tune/flash you out...thats not what i want as i want user tuning capability

of course i am considering a wideband and EGT ...at this poing it be most probably LM-1 and not sure on the EGT sice the defi unit can not be logged....that is different discussion.

thanks

Last edited by keyser_soze; 04-03-2005 at 10:10 PM.
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Old 04-03-2005, 06:41 PM   #24
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Does the ECUtek user tunable have a release date? I"m going to be interested in how much effort/money they put into the user tunable version.

I think there's something to be said for cobb releasing ST before PT. Cobb already has a friggin TON of money and time invested in their product, and there's nothing on the market right now that's comparable.

Cobb is on the cutting edge, and they stand behind their product, what else could you ask for?

Cobb gets my vote!
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Old 04-03-2005, 10:31 PM   #25
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Regarding the EcuTEK, I am almost sure what will be available is going to be almost identical to what the tuners have right now...I don't think they are putting money and R&D into this new product....the product is already there all the features are already there...if any ...they will take some out. The money and R&D are two things in my opion:
1. Pirate proofing the software. Remember they only sell software not tuning and no parts. If someone could hack their tool they are done. This is abvious as the threats they made to the Open ECU forum people on how they going to take legal action etc etc if they were to reverse engineer their software etc.

2. Working this with their authorized EcuTEK partners (i.e. tuners). Somehow they have to convince their tuners to sell this thing and if you read my theory regarding hidden costs...I don't know how exactly it is going to pan out...

3. Last but not least pricing...Cobb ST will set you back 1050. So if EcuTEK sold their usertunable version for 1 K to 1.2 K to be competitive with the same featrues and prcing as the Cobb unit then ....they have a bunch of pissed of customers that would want the tool or an upgrade for free...since if you got a flash and Delta Dash you already paid at least 1000. This is obvious as seen on their Forums by their customers.

OK ....I like to move this thread into a more technical direction. What features does one offer that the other don't etc. I don't know about EcuTEK much since ...well it is not availabe to average joe...but from what I read (ST owner manual):

Cobb Street Tuner Live tuning capability:
# Primary Fuel (Low Detonation)
# Closed Loop/Open Loop Transitions
# Main Ignition Timing
# Knock Advance (Correction) Maps
# AVCS Intake Cam Timing
# Target Boost
# Wastegate Duty Cycle - Initial
# Wastegate Duty Cycle - Final
# Turbo Dynamics - Coarse Gain High
# Turbo Dynamics - Coarse Gain Low
# Turbo Dynamics - Fine Gain
# Boost Limiter
# Rev Limiters
# MAF Calibration
# Injector Size Scaler

Loging I think is on par for both...both enable all Ecu parameter loggin + external sensor loging such as wideband data from LM-1 ....the nod here goes to EcuTEK with the Delta Dash and its dyo feature and vitural dash...

Keep discussing
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