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Old 04-03-2005, 12:33 PM   #1
Rallycarperson
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Default The Rally Tire Thread

Just curious which rally tires have the best grip, wear, weight, overal value, etc. From what I know the only brands available here are Michelin, Pirelli, Silverstone, and Kumho.

How do the Kumhos and Sliverstones compare with the more expensive Pirellis and Michelins?? Are they worth the extra $$?
Any reviews/comments about any brand are welcomed.


-Mark
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Old 04-03-2005, 01:02 PM   #2
thechickencow
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I've used Michelin, Pirelli, and Silverstone on my G5 car. The Michelins/Pirellis seem to hold up better than the silverstones do, I think the compound of the silverstones is too soft.

Kumho's seem popular, Falkens are around a bit, and Hankook is rumored to be importing rally tires soon (as of last fall, haven't heard lately). If they're availiable soon I'll probably run Hankooks as the team is a dealer.

Jay
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Old 04-03-2005, 01:35 PM   #3
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While not true rally tires, I have had grand success by cutting snow tires for Rallycross. I took 14" Cooper brand snowtires, pulled the studs and cut the tread out in a zigzag around the tire. Amazing grip! Nothing could really touch me for accelleration in the mud and dirt last year. Car wasnt running this first rallycross though so I couldnt test them against Bill Price.

This years first rallycross in Oregon (Hillsborro) was won by an incredible margin by Bill Price. He drives an old 100hp Audi with narrow custom cut tires and he was beating EVERYONE by at least 20 seconds per lap. And this was a 1:24 time. Thats huge.

His tires simply cut the mud and dirt and he tracks like he is on rails. No spendy tires for him, just a few (20ish?) sitting in his garage with a tire cutter.
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Old 04-03-2005, 01:49 PM   #4
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Looks like Hankook is already making them...
http://www.hankooktireusa.com/products_view.asp?CatID=3

The reason why many people are using Kumhos are probably, because they are the least expensive. Although, ive heard that they are really heavy.

thechickencow, in your opinion are the Michelins/Pirellis worth the extra $$?


-Mark
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Old 04-03-2005, 02:06 PM   #5
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Hankook has them listed but I don't think they're availiable right now. I'll check my distributor.

All rally tires are heavy, I wouldn't be suprised if my wheel/tire combo approaches 40-50# easily.

I think most think the Michelin/Pirellis are better from what I've heard. In my direct experience I wouldn't spend the money on silverstones when I can get the other for only a bit more.
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Old 04-03-2005, 02:15 PM   #6
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I use 13" Silverstones on my rally car (2000lb RWD) --- I've switched from the harder S7 compound to the soft S3 compound (car is very light). They hold up well, and grip is good.

I have 15" Silverstones for rallycrossing Subies, and the grip is good (I tend to run these 2 PSI higher than you would a "normal" rally tire).

I haven't driven on a set of expensive tires for a couple years, and even then they were well worn, so I don't have much to offer there.

From what I can see, if you're at the club/regional level, Silverstones work out fine.
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Old 04-03-2005, 03:04 PM   #7
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Thanks guys. So what are the vendors for Michelin/Pirelli? For Michelin I only know of Libra and Subesports, which are both around $180 per tire.

Pirelli...Autosport Eng.?


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Old 04-03-2005, 03:26 PM   #8
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not a rally tire but works great in the dirt and is cheap winterforce
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Old 04-03-2005, 03:57 PM   #9
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Rally Stuff

I thought I'd compile links for the tire manufacturers since that's about the only real contribution I can make to this thread.
Michelin Rally Tires
Pirelli Rally Tires
Silverstone Rally Tires
Yokohama Rally Tires (closest thing to manufacturer site I could find)
Kumho Rally Tires
Hankook Rally Tires
Dunlop Rally Tires
Black Rocket Rally Tires

Sorry, some of these are international links since the US sites don't have rally tires on their webpages.

And respective comments: too expensive, too expensive, good p/e ratio, no clue but look great, very tempting, too new, not available, Finnish.

Last edited by erikkellison; 04-03-2005 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 04-03-2005, 05:20 PM   #10
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There is also a Finnish company Keskipinta Ltd that makes Black Rocket rally tyres:
http://www.keskipinta.fi/english/br_summer.htm

They are the largest tyre manufacturer in Finland, making six different types of studded tyres for winter rallies, and three different types of summer rally tyres.

If you dig around on www.specialstage.com you can find out more info on these tyres.

We personally run Silverstones. Depending on your driving stlye you can get several rallies out of the harder compound. But good luck finding them.

US Silverstone distributor:
http://www.taborrallyteam.com/
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Old 04-03-2005, 06:41 PM   #11
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We've run the silverstones and the khumos on our old Gr2 car, and they were decent. The did't hold up when we upgraded to the 4wd PGT car (then converted to open). We ran michellins (purchased through CanJam in Toronto).

Now that we're running yet another car, 4WD open with mucho horsepower, we've found that the yokos are really good. Plus, they are reasonably priced and have a variety of tread types and hardness.
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Old 04-03-2005, 06:53 PM   #12
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I think the Khumo's are a pretty good RallyCross tire. They seem to have more gaps and work better on a soft surface. I run Michelins and they seem better on a harder surface but not much better considering the price difference. 2
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Old 04-03-2005, 07:03 PM   #13
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Thanks guys.

http://www.kumho-euro.com/Motorsport...rochure03.html

Looks like Kumho has a new tire- R800. The tread looks similar to the Michelin ZR tires. Anyone have experience about them?


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Old 04-03-2005, 08:39 PM   #14
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You forgot Falken!
http://www.falkentire.com/tires_rs01d.htm
I don't know anything about them.
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Old 04-03-2005, 09:44 PM   #15
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Default tires

There was a thread on SS that said Falken was selling out their stock and quitting.

---

I've only used Kumho and Michelin.
I broke a wheel a rally with Kumhos and after running Michelin, wouldn't use them except in soft mud.

Michelins hold up better, can be used longer, don't fail, work well on tarmac (Kumhos don't) and don't squirm.
A turn you would hit within a foot on a Kumho you can hit in 2 inches with the Michelin. Much more precise.
You will wear out a Kumho in less time and not get any extra performance in return.

Looking at other people and their problems, I believe Silverstones have more flats and Pirellis delaminate if run over 100mph to long.
These are just my observations over four years.

rz
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Old 04-03-2005, 10:49 PM   #16
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Default rally tire alchemy

Quote:
Originally Posted by randy zimmer
I broke a wheel a rally with Kumhos and after running Michelin, wouldn't use them except in soft mud.

Michelins hold up better, can be used longer, don't fail, work well on tarmac (Kumhos don't) and don't squirm.

rz
I've not had such bad luck with Kumhos...I just dent the wheels instead of breaking them Taco'ed 3 of my good super-tough Technomagnesio rims at Rally NY running the Kumhos. Have had quite good luck with the Kumhos in soft/wet conditions, tho. Some combination of tread compound and their open blocky tread pattern works great in the slop. When they're new and the tread blocks are nice and sharp, they work darn good in gravel.

I'm continuing to run Kumhos on my RS racer, they seem fine on the lower powered car. But our team's 98 WRX eats em up in anything except the wettest going. We ran Michelins for a couple seasons with good results...except for the time we went out on a half-frozen stage on hard compound ones and crashed hard after only a couple of km. (this was our fault for inappropriate tire choice, tho, not the Michelins') They also make a variety of compounds suited to whatever conditions you might find out there. Just apply cubic $$.

As our team manager said above, we have switched to Yokos and are happy happy, especially with the soft compound AO35s. Their snow and ice tires are also superb...and I have a fresh set of super-sexay Yoko tarmac gumballs just waiting to lay rubber to pavement at Rally NY in a couple weeks.

cheers,

Dave G
Connoisseur and collector of worn-wout gravel tires
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Old 04-04-2005, 12:07 AM   #17
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Our driver was sponsored by Yokohama last year.... and they were much better than the silverstones.... He only requested 035 softs in 195-65-15 and 205-65-15 sizes.... Sidewalls were very stiff.....

We'd groove them for the really muddy/soft conditions.... not sure if it helped.... (I was learning what our tire guy was doing)..... At each rally, we'd use about 4-5 sets per race... as each set saw about 3 or 4 stages....

They still had lots tread... but since they were our sponsor..... we had a good supply of tires..... afterwards, lot of other teams would buy our used tires....

Year before.... we mainly ran silverstones (soft, medium and hard compound)...... mediocre tire.... at best..... lots of flats.... but the evo is an open class.... probably not a good combo..... lower hp car or novice driver probably would have been fine.....

The only michelins we ran were winters..... such as C5's and another discontinued one.... g something....

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Old 04-04-2005, 08:46 AM   #18
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We ran Yoko A035's on the G2 GTI & loved them. They worked very well. Much better than the Kuhmo's.

We are trying both Pirelli's & Michlins on the WRX. So far in practice, the Michlins seem much more stiff in the sidewall in hard slides on hardpack. I have alos heard from Utecht that the Michelins are more durable.

The Pirelli's have a little more open corner pattern, which I think will be better in the soft stuff. So we'll be using both in varying conditions...

Kuhmo's & Silverstones seem to be very effective Club/Regional tires for the money.

Good luck & have fun!
JC
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Old 04-04-2005, 09:05 AM   #19
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I'll echo Robin's comments.

Andrew and I ran the Silverstones in 2002. They were ok, but we were forced to run very high tire pressures to compensate for the weak sidewalls, and we still had more flats that year than I think is reasonable. I think Silverstones may be appropriate if you're just out there having fun. If you're trying to win, they appear to me to be false economy.

As between the Michelins and the Pirellis, I'd give a slight edge to the Michelins. In my experience, in the same compound, Pirellis tend to wear less than a Michelin, but once a Pirelli is half-worn it seems to lose a lot of grip and be basically worn out. Michelins seem to stay sticky until there's basically nothing left. And clearly, in the US, the price favors Michelin.

- Christian
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Old 04-04-2005, 12:06 PM   #20
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the R800 has been out for awhile now, but its not available here AFAIK.

Also, one of the RX7's at 100AW was on Hankooks, so there must be some in the country
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Old 04-04-2005, 04:48 PM   #21
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Anyone know if there's anything cheaper than the Kumho's that's still a "rally" tire and not a cheap snow tire?
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Old 04-04-2005, 05:14 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erikkellison
Anyone know if there's anything cheaper than the Kumho's that's still a "rally" tire and not a cheap snow tire?
Used rally tires.
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Old 04-04-2005, 05:30 PM   #23
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Know anyone in WA that sells used rally tires? I can't find any teams in either Seattle or Vancouver, BC that have advertised that they have tires for sale.
Well, I did find one guy, but he wanted $50/tire and they were about half worn, which means they have used 2/3 of their life up, and I get the crappy last 1/3, for $50, when I can get Kumho's shipped to me for $90/tire, and they're new?

Seriously, any teams in NW WA or SW BC that have tires to sell me that are decent?
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Old 04-04-2005, 07:09 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erikkellison

Seriously, any teams in NW WA or SW BC that have tires to sell me that are decent?
Dave Clark has some of the Hintz brother's used Pirellis. Most are approximately 64 centimeters high and 16 centimeters wide (Pirelli 205-65-15). Prices are probably $10 to $20 depending on DC's mood.
Located at Dave Clark's shop near Seatac (425-221-2470).
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Old 04-04-2005, 07:23 PM   #25
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Prices for Clark also depend on how tall the stack of tires is.

A good tire used is still great for rallyx and such.
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