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Old 04-03-2005, 04:18 PM   #1
Slack
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Default Running EZ30R with Hydra?

I am in the planning stages of a rather uncommon engine swap: EZ30R (2005 H6) into my 2000 Impreza L. I have talked to a local tuner and he suggested running it with a Hydra. I realize that nobody (that search would turn up) has done this before and that it might not be easy. Any helpful advice, tips, questions, etc. would be appreciated.

I could use a stock 2005 Outback H6 ECU, but from what I gathered, it would throw a lot of CELs due to my car not having items such as ABS that the ECU would be unable to communicate with. Does this sound like a likely problem?

These are the obsticles I'm concerned about:

-Throttle-by-wire
1. Can it be run with the Hydra? (STI's have it and can run Hydra)
2. Would it be nessesary to replace accelerator pedal setup?
3. Would it be easier to convert to a standard throttle body?

-AVCS & AVLS
1. I know Hydra can work with the STI's AVCS, but this Active Valve Lift System is new to Subaru engines (as far as I know) and I have no idea if and how it needs to be run with the ECU. I don't know if anyone can help me with this concern, but any info would be good.


That's all I've got for now. Thanks in advance for any info.

Mick
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Old 04-03-2005, 04:31 PM   #2
cboggess
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Heck - if you get an answer on this let me know. I'd love to find someone who can tune my wife's 2001 H6, but I haven't really found anything for that motor.
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Old 04-03-2005, 07:07 PM   #3
Slack
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Thanks for speaking up. The more demand there is, the more likely someone will make the components.

One thing that seems to be different about the older 3.0L H6 is that it has both a dual-stage variable intake manifold and a valve in the muffler that opens up an additional chamber that helps quiet the exhaust when a certain exhaust pressure is reached (22psi). I don't know if these are mechanical or features controlled by the ECU or not, but it could add another element to tuning it.

Maybe my project will be a prototype to help make something available. Who knows?

Mick
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Old 04-03-2005, 07:21 PM   #4
PHATsuby
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to stock is a project too

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the EGR valves in the old EZ30 are strictly for emissions purposes, it routes exhaust gas directly back into the intake. i am not sure on the older dual stage variable intake manifold part, where did you read that Slack? I know the old EG33 has a dual throttle body setup with the IRIS system that is somewhat variable, not exactly sure how it works.

for the DBW, yes you will need a new pedal system.
I am just going to convert to standard cable TB, but i am also going to be making a whole new manifold i have been told you cant just swap TB's you would need to make an adapter plate.

Ben
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Old 04-03-2005, 07:32 PM   #5
PHATsuby
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disregard anything about EGR, i am an idiot, however the info still holds on it, Slack just never even talked about them i was confused.

Ben
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Old 04-03-2005, 07:42 PM   #6
Geek Guy
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You can always buy a link plus and wire it in.
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Old 04-03-2005, 08:14 PM   #7
Slack
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Can you explain how the Link+ would be any different/better than the Hydra?


Mick
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Old 04-03-2005, 08:34 PM   #8
PHATsuby
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the link+ wont work unless it has configurable trigger info, which as far as i know, it does not, it only has the traditional subaru triggers.

Ben
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Old 04-03-2005, 11:19 PM   #9
Geek Guy
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There are RPM-based trigger outputs with the link +.

If you mean trigger for ignition timing, then it's how you wire it. Can be wired to the cam or crank sensor.
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Old 04-04-2005, 12:04 AM   #10
bboy
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The Hydra is not an open platform. It is not like AEMS, Motec, Haltec, Tec3, ...... that have user manuals and electronic pinout info. Phil (Element Tuning) has an exclusive Subaru license. You will not be able to get anything wired in without his assistance. DBW and AVCS are run by the Hydra and I'm sure that the the AVLS could be run. The big problem with your proposal is that you will have no pinout and no logic info which which to install or program the Hydra. If it's going to happen Phil is your sole source.
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Old 04-04-2005, 11:28 AM   #11
Slack
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"Help me, Obi-Wan! You're my only hope!"
Quote:
Exclusive 02-up Subaru WRX and STi Distributor:

Element Tuning

Contact: Phil Grabow

WWW.ELEMENTTUNING.COM

Tel: 240-246-0302

info@elementtuning.com
But seriously...
I see WRX and STi, but no mention of the 2005 Outback or 2000 Impreza L. I guess that might be a reason why he hasn't already replied to this thread. I am working with a registered Hydra tuner here in Atlanta, but we're probably going to need some help.

Mick

Last edited by Slack; 04-04-2005 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 04-04-2005, 03:32 PM   #12
bboy
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Well I'm not too sure about WRX and STI only. Andrew has said it's all of Subaru in posts on the HydraEMS forum. Thost posts where deleted since I pointed out that he was a liar and general loser on multiple points. I have not seen the contract between Phil And Hydra. According to Andrew I could not get the pin-out information that I wanted because Phil is the only one that can release it. He extended this to ALL Subaru pinout information not just my STI. However this may be just another of Andrew's lies.

Now I would not put anything past Andrew. The guy will lie outright to you without compunction. The problem with liars is you don't know truth from fiction. Obviously Phil has not rigged the H6 engine nor the RS naturally aspirated engine. I think it highly unlikely he can/will help you to do so unless he can guarantee it works in his own hands. If I were Phil I would not sell you a unit that I 1) did not know worked or 2) I could not support.

I don't blame Phil for his position. He has a reputation to uphold. Andrew is [b]completely[\b] untrustworthy. I cannot begin to tell you the junk that he has passed on to me in the form of bad information, bad products, and bad instruction to others working on my car. Hence, I say that Phil is the ONLY source of a decent info on the Hydra. Not only will Andrew be of no help, he could potentially ruin your car as he did components of mine (the full extent of the damage is still unknown).

I want you to be able to use the Hydra on the H6 engine and any other engine that others are interested in. The Hydra is a great tool. Read anywhere in this forum and I am totally supportive of it and Phil. Your best hope is that Phil gets on the H6/RS/L band wagon with you and works with you, then he can be confident in supporting the Hydra on those engine platforms.

Andrew is a truely the weak link in the whole Hydra chain, that if it were up to me, he would be fired. Perhaps I should begin the oust Andrew campaign. I certainly encourage complaint about his deceit and ineptness. He has tried to cover his tracks, but he never has to actually deal with anybody, rather he brings people like Phil in to defend his misdeeds. Andrew is ruining a great step forward in EM for the Subaru. If you don't know this now, mark my words: Andrew will F*#K over you or your valuable car eventually.

end of diatribe
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Old 04-04-2005, 11:42 PM   #13
Slack
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Hold on a minute. I'm not trying to get involved in all this drama. I just thought I would get some ideas and feedback from more experienced tuners. If it is going to turn into another episode of "As The Nasioc Turns", I'm going to just let this thread drop into the
archives.


Mick
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Old 04-05-2005, 09:40 PM   #14
Element Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slack
Hold on a minute. I'm not trying to get involved in all this drama. I just thought I would get some ideas and feedback from more experienced tuners. If it is going to turn into another episode of "As The Nasioc Turns", I'm going to just let this thread drop into the
archives.

Mick
I actually missed this thread, it happens, I apologize. The Hydra EMS system is only sold as a plug-in standalone and therefore it requires complete integration and model specific R&D. What you are attempting is beyond my scope of experience so you would be at the mercy of Hydra EMS America in attempting this swap. So many electronics would need to be scoped on a working car it's unlikely this would ever happen since there is hardly any demand.

In all honesty even if Hydra were to make you are harness you would still have to rewire at least the additional injectors, coils, AVCS, and AVLS. This should be the least of your worries as the tuning would be difficult since there would be no base map.

If you are determined and manage to get this accomplished I could tune it for you but you would have to fly me in and I would suspect 20-30 hours of tuning time to figure in the new AVCS curves, AVLS mapping, fuel, and spark maps.

I think the result would be awesome but prepare yourself for the amount of money and time it will take to accomplish this.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
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Old 04-06-2005, 10:11 AM   #15
Slack
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Yeah, that is about what I figured. I am just wondering how the heck I'm going to get this engine running right now.


Mick
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Old 04-07-2005, 03:25 AM   #16
Slack
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We're probably just going to use a stock ECU and wiring harness from an 05 H6 Legacy. Maybe there will be a reflash available for it later on.

Mick
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Old 04-07-2005, 06:29 AM   #17
PHATsuby
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Slack, are you going to be getting a full harness plus an 05 ecu? Let me know what you plan to do about the Immobilizer stuff, you need a whole new bulkhead harness to have that working apparently, because the column harness is very different i have been told. personally, i think there is a way around it, there has to be, but I will have to do some research first.

thought this was gonna be quick and easy did you?

I will report back with ideas once i download the 05 manuals

Ben
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