My COBB nightmare...resolved by Bill K. at I-Speed USA

The Modaholic · 01-17-2005, 12:14 AM

It is a long story, but suffice it to say, the ECUTek shelf tune that Bill Knose, lead tuner at I-Speed USA started with when he reflashed my ECU last week was 10 times smoother than any of the shelf maps I had with COBB (in all stages--not just Trey's attempt at custom tuning my car). (And to think, the whole time I trusted his judgement--what a fool I was!)

I sure as hell hope that Trey doesn't experiment on anyone else, who doesn't know any better.

Some quotes from our established tuning gurus who reviewed logging of Trey's custom mapping on my car:

"...the data loging you sent me shows that your car is running dangerously lean on top..."

"If I were in your shoes I would ask for a refund and move on but frankly if I was the one who sold you the EM I would have offered your money back a long time ago."

"...it just isn't safe spiking the boost down low like that. That is causing detonation for you...I don't do what he does, because it isn't safe, bottom line."

Trey, maybe you should slow down and stop living life at a blur--incidentily, did you just delay the release of the AccessTuner software longer by spending most of December in Japan preparing your new expansion project?

Wow!

"Let's ride bikes!"

where did the picture of the guinia pig on the vf34 go?

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

8Complex · 01-17-2005, 12:39 AM

I think you mean Bill Knose@I-Speed, right?

Yeah, Trey has been over his head since the WRX came out. Other then boltons he sells, I have no idea how the business even still exists.

BTW, the person writing the code for the AccessPort took a walk on Trey due to not being paid, hence the reason no releases have been made. I heard a rumor about some sort of lawsuit there, but nothing solid.

The Modaholic · 01-17-2005, 01:10 AM

Yeah, Trey sure had me fooled after speaking to him and emailing a couple of times...but to be honest, at times it seemed he really had no idea what he was doing, or was smoking too much crack...lol

Unabomber · 01-17-2005, 01:12 AM

Mark me as interested. Anyone care to elaborate on Cobb's custom tunes? Though a famous company, NO ONE talks about their custom tunes and it's almost like no one gets them done.

awilson529 · 01-17-2005, 03:09 AM

WOW!! I have an aP'd STi, so i'm subscribing....

Adam

The Modaholic · 01-17-2005, 03:37 AM

After my experience with his custom tuning, I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that there is a large percentage of AP users out there who are detonating due to bad mapping. I was reading some thread that was posted a while back that was a poll ranking the tuners out there and he had the ranking of number 1 out of everyone--at the time I laughed, knowing that having vision and a great concept for development doesn't automatically make you an honest and responsible tuner.

Its funny, people get addicted to and blinded by their vision of success (grandeur?) and before you know it, BAM, they are repeating the same bloody mistakes over and over again expecting different results. That's nuts!

GTScoob · 01-17-2005, 04:27 AM

I've got a Trey Cobb tuned unichip right now.

It works alright but isnt very optimal because it was made 2 years ago. I havent ever dynoed the car or had an air fuel readout for it to see how safe of a tune it was.

Good thing I'm upgrading to Ecutek soon.

awilson529 · 01-17-2005, 08:43 AM

Wow!!! Really makes me want to flash my ECU back to stock (but then I think [not to cause panick], "If he cant do a safe power map, is the "stock" map safe?). I guess time will tell what's going on.

Adam

jblaine · 01-17-2005, 09:04 AM

Toot toot!

Unabomber · 01-17-2005, 09:50 AM

Thanks for the replies so far. I find it quite odd though that I can EASILY find about 99 different people who have posted experiences with Clark, Nathan, Shiv, etc. with tuning but when it comes to "I just got tuned by Trey Cobb posts" mums the word.

<-----------Planning on a Trey Cobb tune in July

hondaeater69 · 01-17-2005, 12:06 PM

Were both custom tunes done in person with the car or by mail. Or was Cobb's done by mail, and I speed's done in person

Jaxx · 01-17-2005, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8Complex

BTW, the person writing the code for the AccessPort took a walk on Trey due to not being paid, hence the reason no releases have been made. I heard a rumor about some sort of lawsuit there, but nothing solid.

cept for the release in December for all the 05 cars? (wrx/sti/LGT)

its an off the shelf map .. how do you expect perfection? it most likely has to do with your setup not the programming

there have been thousands of APs sold and relatively few complaints

Quote:

After my experience with his custom tuning, I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that there is a large percentage of AP users out there who are detonating due to bad mapping.

i would ... first they tune at 4500 feet in slc (less air) and thats why generic maps don't provide as much power, they are tuned conservatively

8Complex · 01-17-2005, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaxx

there have been thousands of APs sold and relatively few complaint

You mean other then the hundreds of people let down by the vaporware of the AccessTuner and the bunch of other people complaining about lack of more custom maps. Heh.

bboy · 01-17-2005, 12:35 PM

Cobb is a salesman and a linguist. He is popular with many of the less experienced because he talks a good game, but in the end it's a lot of talk. To paraphrase:

You can switch between 10 maps once you have to chosen a base map. We get around the reflash limit because we don't reflash. AccessTuner will allow you to alter all tuning parameters within the parameters of the basemap.

It's doublespeak. In the end you are very limited by the AccessPort because you have to work with Cobb's base maps. If you want a "custom" map you have to go to SLC. ProTuner may change that, but if similar tactics are used with tuners, I doubt wide spread adoption.

I've never used his products because I grew suspicious of all the hype and the best tuners I knew never used his tuning "tools".

Words of advice: read very carefully what Cobb's site says. Does it make sense?

hondaeater69 · 01-17-2005, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8Complex

You mean other then the hundreds of people let down by the vaporware of the AccessTuner and the bunch of other people complaining about lack of more custom maps. Heh.

I don't see how people that are mad that the tuner isn't out yet correlates with people complaining of poorly made off the shelf maps?

The bottom line is there have been relatively few complaints considering the thousands of ap's already sold.

And I for one am glad to wait for the street tuner, it's going to blow away all other user tunable EMS's!!

bboy · 01-17-2005, 12:43 PM

From jblaine's post quoting Trey Cobb:

"We could get our STI tomorrow or we could get it in 6 weeks. There is no timeline."

priceless

BTW the dates in jblaine's post tell the whole story.

The Modaholic · 01-17-2005, 12:45 PM

Both COBB and I-Speed USA started with "shelf maps," that were so different in quality, it was shocking. Bill didn't even have the time to tweek the map to his standards in person, so has had me data-log with Delta Dash, sending him the results, so that he could reflash another ECU and send it to me. All of the COBB shelf maps that I ran had hesitation and detonation problems (not to mention running 50-100 degrees hotter under all conditions). This continued through a 6-9 month process of sending Trey data-log after data-log...and to be honest things only got worse....people gave me feedback about how the car ran at the track, I passed that on to Trey, recorded data & detonation and things never got any better. After a while I started to get really mad--some people say it is difficult for anyone to justify anger in a situation where expectations aren't clearly defined (no contractual agreement) I was being given something without being asked for anything in return...overall, I find that my experience has been quite the opposite, since he offered a standard of quality that he was not able to provide. He told me repeatedly that he would match the quality of someone else's tuning (TMS) on a NESIC member's car with the same mods. He never did--and to make things worse, was niever true to his word!

I was eternally optimistic that Trey's tuning would change the reality of how my car was responding to his mapping--but, it didn't...and when I started to ask questions, he started to get more and more "busy." He eventually told me that he was sending me out a "very beta" copy of the tuning software in August in order to straighten things out, that Justin, and others were preparing non-disclosure paperwork for me, but then apparently didn't follow through, or for that matter, explain why (I think that he eventually decided not to send out betas to WRX owners only STi and Foresters). That was the straw that broke the camel's back, so-to-speak.

The Modaholic · 01-17-2005, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bboy

Cobb is a salesman and a linguist. He is popular with many of the less experienced because he talks a good game, but in the end it's a lot of talk. To paraphrase:

You can switch between 10 maps once you have to chosen a base map. We get around the reflash limit because we don't reflash. AccessTuner will allow you to alter all tuning parameters within the parameters of the basemap.

It's doublespeak. In the end you are very limited by the AccessPort because you have to work with Cobb's base maps. If you want a "custom" map you have to go to SLC. ProTuner may change that, but if similar tactics are used with tuners, I doubt wide spread adoption.

I've never used his products because I grew suspicious of all the hype and the best tuners I knew never used his tuning "tools".

Words of advice: read very carefully what Cobb's site says. Does it make sense?

Wow Bboy, I think you hit the nail on the head!! Very well put!

hondaeater69 · 01-17-2005, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bboy

Cobb is a salesman and a linguist. He is popular with many of the less experienced because he talks a good game, but in the end it's a lot of talk. To paraphrase:

You can switch between 10 maps once you have to chosen a base map. We get around the reflash limit because we don't reflash. AccessTuner will allow you to alter all tuning parameters within the parameters of the basemap.

It's doublespeak. In the end you are very limited by the AccessPort because you have to work with Cobb's base maps. If you want a "custom" map you have to go to SLC. ProTuner may change that, but if similar tactics are used with tuners, I doubt wide spread adoption.

I've never used his products because I grew suspicious of all the hype and the best tuners I knew never used his tuning "tools".

Words of advice: read very carefully what Cobb's site says. Does it make sense?

Hit the nail on the head? Puhlease.

THe double speak you are referring to is about two differenet products. You are limited to the base maps with the AP, until the tuner comes out, or you have a custom tune. Cobb has never said anything different. I'm not sure how you think that's double speak. I've read their site many times, and it makes perfect sense to me !

And no one is using their tuning tools yet because they're not realeased yet!! The pro software is for licensing professional tuners, and the street tuner software is for me and you. Neither have been released to the public yet.

Although i think they should be a little more acurate with their realease dates of products, their business practices are in line with everyone else's.

The Modaholic · 01-17-2005, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hondaeater69

Although i think they should be a little more acurate with their realease dates of products, their business practices are in line with everyone else's.

Is this FACT or OPINION?
***********

hondaeater69 · 01-17-2005, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Modaholic

Is this FACT or OPINION?
***********

You know what they say, opinion's are like brown eyes, everyone's gottem and they all stink!

The Modaholic · 01-17-2005, 01:36 PM

Yes, I agree--nice image! But I am a bit curious, Hondaeater69, are you in business for yourself?

hondaeater69 · 01-17-2005, 01:45 PM

Huh? ?

The Modaholic · 01-17-2005, 01:53 PM

Well, I was going to say, if you actually think that COBB Tunings business practices are in line with "everyone else" then you might want to get some other opinions about how you might be doing business yourself.

Anyway, it's not meant as a dig...I'd just assume get this thread back on topic

The Modaholic · 01-17-2005, 02:22 PM

What was the topic?

Dave, anyone?

....oh, hey, nice day!!

let's fly kites! I mean, ride bikes!

01-17-2005, 12:14 AM	#1
The Modaholic Scooby Specialist Member#: 35632 Join Date: Apr 2003 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Natick, Massachusetts Vehicle: 2004 WRX sedan Red/ECUTek Stage IV	My COBB nightmare...resolved by Bill K. at I-Speed USA It is a long story, but suffice it to say, the ECUTek shelf tune that Bill Knose, lead tuner at I-Speed USA started with when he reflashed my ECU last week was 10 times smoother than *any* of the shelf maps I had with COBB (in all stages--not just Trey's attempt at custom tuning my car). (And to think, the whole time I trusted his judgement--what a fool I was!) I sure as hell hope that Trey doesn't experiment on anyone else, who doesn't know any better. Some quotes from our established tuning gurus who reviewed logging of Trey's custom mapping on my car: "...the data loging you sent me shows that your car is running dangerously lean on top..." "If I were in your shoes I would ask for a refund and move on but frankly if I was the one who sold you the EM I would have offered your money back a long time ago." "...it just isn't safe spiking the boost down low like that. That is causing detonation for you...I don't do what he does, because it isn't safe, bottom line." Trey, maybe you should slow down and stop living life at a blur--incidentily, did you just delay the release of the AccessTuner software longer by spending most of December in Japan preparing your new expansion project? Wow! "Let's ride bikes!" where did the picture of the guinia pig on the vf34 go? * Registered users of the site do not see these ads. Last edited by The Modaholic; 01-17-2005 at 01:11 AM.

01-17-2005, 12:45 PM	#17
The Modaholic Scooby Specialist Member#: 35632 Join Date: Apr 2003 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Natick, Massachusetts Vehicle: 2004 WRX sedan Red/ECUTek Stage IV	Both COBB and I-Speed USA started with "shelf maps," that were so different in quality, it was shocking. Bill didn't even have the time to tweek the map to his standards in person, so has had me data-log with Delta Dash, sending him the results, so that he could reflash another ECU and send it to me. All of the COBB shelf maps that I ran had hesitation and detonation problems (not to mention running 50-100 degrees hotter under all conditions). This continued through a 6-9 month process of sending Trey data-log after data-log...and to be honest things only got worse....people gave me feedback about how the car ran at the track, I passed that on to Trey, recorded data & detonation and things never got any better. After a while I started to get really mad--some people say it is difficult for anyone to justify anger in a situation where expectations aren't clearly defined (no contractual agreement) I was being given something without being asked for anything in return...overall, I find that my experience has been quite the opposite, since he offered a standard of quality that he was not able to provide. He told me repeatedly that he would match the quality of someone else's tuning (TMS) on a NESIC member's car with the same mods. He never did--and to make things worse, was niever true to his word! I was eternally optimistic that Trey's tuning would change the reality of how my car was responding to his mapping--but, it didn't...and when I started to ask questions, he started to get more and more "busy." He eventually told me that he was sending me out a "very beta" copy of the tuning software in August in order to straighten things out, that Justin, and others were preparing non-disclosure paperwork for me, but then apparently didn't follow through, or for that matter, explain why (I think that he eventually decided not to send out betas to WRX owners only STi and Foresters). That was the straw that broke the camel's back, so-to-speak. Last edited by The Modaholic; 01-17-2005 at 12:54 PM.

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01-17-2005, 12:39 AM	#2
8Complex Moderator Member#: 922 Join Date: Feb 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Schaumburg, IL Vehicle: 04 FXT Red	I think you mean Bill Knose@I-Speed, right? Yeah, Trey has been over his head since the WRX came out. Other then boltons he sells, I have no idea how the business even still exists. BTW, the person writing the code for the AccessPort took a walk on Trey due to not being paid, hence the reason no releases have been made. I heard a rumor about some sort of lawsuit there, but nothing solid.

01-17-2005, 01:10 AM	#3
The Modaholic Scooby Specialist Member#: 35632 Join Date: Apr 2003 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Natick, Massachusetts Vehicle: 2004 WRX sedan Red/ECUTek Stage IV	Yeah, Trey sure had me fooled after speaking to him and emailing a couple of times...but to be honest, at times it seemed he really had no idea what he was doing, or was smoking too much crack...lol

01-17-2005, 01:12 AM	#4
Unabomber Big Ron Moderator Member#: 18062 Join Date: Apr 2002 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: I can save you a ton of cash Vehicle: on car parts so PM me b4 j00 buy	Mark me as interested. Anyone care to elaborate on Cobb's custom tunes? Though a famous company, NO ONE talks about their custom tunes and it's almost like no one gets them done.

01-17-2005, 03:09 AM	#5
awilson529 Scooby Specialist Member#: 38867 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Houston, Tx. Vehicle: 11 Mazda	WOW!! I have an aP'd STi, so i'm subscribing.... Adam

01-17-2005, 03:37 AM	#6
The Modaholic Scooby Specialist Member#: 35632 Join Date: Apr 2003 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Natick, Massachusetts Vehicle: 2004 WRX sedan Red/ECUTek Stage IV	After my experience with his custom tuning, I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that there is a large percentage of AP users out there who are detonating due to bad mapping. I was reading some thread that was posted a while back that was a poll ranking the tuners out there and he had the ranking of number 1 out of everyone--at the time I laughed, knowing that having vision and a great concept for development doesn't automatically make you an honest and responsible tuner. Its funny, people get addicted to and blinded by their vision of success (grandeur?) and before you know it, BAM, they are repeating the same bloody mistakes over and over again expecting different results. That's nuts!

01-17-2005, 04:27 AM	#7
GTScoob Scooby Specialist Member#: 68602 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Atlanta Vehicle: 02 STi Wagon	I've got a Trey Cobb tuned unichip right now. It works alright but isnt very optimal because it was made 2 years ago. I havent ever dynoed the car or had an air fuel readout for it to see how safe of a tune it was. Good thing I'm upgrading to Ecutek soon.

01-17-2005, 08:43 AM	#8
awilson529 Scooby Specialist Member#: 38867 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Houston, Tx. Vehicle: 11 Mazda	Wow!!! Really makes me want to flash my ECU back to stock (but then I think [not to cause panick], "If he cant do a safe power map, is the "stock" map safe?). I guess time will tell what's going on. Adam

01-17-2005, 09:04 AM	#9
jblaine Scooby Guru Member#: 8512 Join Date: Jul 2001 Chapter/Region: South East Location: St. Pete, FL Vehicle: 2002 WRX chassis... stage-infinity.com	Toot toot!

01-17-2005, 09:50 AM	#10
Unabomber Big Ron Moderator Member#: 18062 Join Date: Apr 2002 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: I can save you a ton of cash Vehicle: on car parts so PM me b4 j00 buy	Thanks for the replies so far. I find it quite odd though that I can EASILY find about 99 different people who have posted experiences with Clark, Nathan, Shiv, etc. with tuning but when it comes to "I just got tuned by Trey Cobb posts" mums the word. <-----------Planning on a Trey Cobb tune in July

01-17-2005, 12:06 PM	#11
hondaeater69 Scooby Guru Member#: 60324 Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: a pillow.	Were both custom tunes done in person with the car or by mail. Or was Cobb's done by mail, and I speed's done in person

01-17-2005, 12:35 PM	#14
bboy Scooby Specialist Member#: 56468 Join Date: Mar 2004 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Seattle, WA Vehicle: 04 Improved STI Dirty White	Cobb is a salesman and a linguist. He is popular with many of the less experienced because he talks a good game, but in the end it's a lot of talk. To paraphrase: You can switch between 10 maps once you have to chosen a base map. We get around the reflash limit because we don't reflash. AccessTuner will allow you to alter all tuning parameters within the parameters of the basemap. It's doublespeak. In the end you are very limited by the AccessPort because you have to work with Cobb's base maps. If you want a "custom" map you have to go to SLC. ProTuner may change that, but if similar tactics are used with tuners, I doubt wide spread adoption. I've never used his products because I grew suspicious of all the hype and the best tuners I knew never used his tuning "tools". Words of advice: read very carefully what Cobb's site says. Does it make sense?

01-17-2005, 12:43 PM	#16
bboy Scooby Specialist Member#: 56468 Join Date: Mar 2004 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Seattle, WA Vehicle: 04 Improved STI Dirty White	From jblaine's post quoting Trey Cobb: "We could get our STI tomorrow or we could get it in 6 weeks. There is no timeline." priceless BTW the dates in jblaine's post tell the whole story.

01-17-2005, 01:36 PM	#22
The Modaholic Scooby Specialist Member#: 35632 Join Date: Apr 2003 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Natick, Massachusetts Vehicle: 2004 WRX sedan Red/ECUTek Stage IV	Yes, I agree--nice image! But I am a bit curious, Hondaeater69, are you in business for yourself?

01-17-2005, 01:45 PM	#23
hondaeater69 Scooby Guru Member#: 60324 Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: a pillow.	Huh? ?

01-17-2005, 01:53 PM	#24
The Modaholic Scooby Specialist Member#: 35632 Join Date: Apr 2003 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Natick, Massachusetts Vehicle: 2004 WRX sedan Red/ECUTek Stage IV	Well, I was going to say, if you actually think that COBB Tunings business practices are in line with "everyone else" then you might want to get some other opinions about how you might be doing business yourself. Anyway, it's not meant as a dig...I'd just assume get this thread back on topic

01-17-2005, 02:22 PM	#25
The Modaholic Scooby Specialist Member#: 35632 Join Date: Apr 2003 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Natick, Massachusetts Vehicle: 2004 WRX sedan Red/ECUTek Stage IV	What was the topic? Dave, anyone? ....oh, hey, nice day!! let's fly kites! I mean, ride bikes!