Intercooled NA?

4/S/TURBO · 04-04-2005, 12:33 PM

The search function has been disabled, and I'm sure this has been covered in depth, but I was wondering if putting an intercooler on the 2.5 will yield any useful gains or harmful side effects. Omahasubaru posted about water injection, so how about intercooling the intake? Thanks!
-4S-

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Handsdown · 04-04-2005, 12:34 PM

it's been covered.

since the search is down, i'll let it slide...

but you don't understand how an intercooler works if you think it'll do something for N/A

powerlabs · 04-04-2005, 12:44 PM

^^^^
I I I

MysteriousXTC · 04-04-2005, 01:02 PM

well then I would like to ask if it is possible to get air flowing to the engine that is to cold?... i.e. it would warp the valves or what not, since ive heard that running a vehicle with just headers presents the possibility of sucking cooler air back up the exhasust and warping the valves...

staticfritz · 04-04-2005, 01:08 PM

cold air comes in the intake manifold, hot air exits from the headers.

too cold? possible probably, but not with ambient air on this planet....

again, howstuffworks.com
go find ou what an intercooler does, then come back.

about the warping, intake valves are fine, exahust valves could in theory maybemaybemaybe warp if you somehow reversed the flow of air in the engine all of a sudden after everything had warmed up directly after an exhaust cycle and it was sucking up really freaking cold winter air.....but seriously....

AWD2.5 · 04-04-2005, 01:40 PM

this was posted on rs25 and is intresting
http://www.cryofuzion.com/ might get a kick out of this

FriedIceCream · 04-04-2005, 03:02 PM

whoa! this guy is kidding right? he might be legally slow brained...

Section 8 · 04-04-2005, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staticfirtz

cold air comes in the intake manifold, hot air exits from the headers.

too cold? possible probably, but not with ambient air on this planet....

again, howstuffworks.com
go find ou what an intercooler does, then come back.

about the warping, intake valves are fine, exahust valves could in theory maybemaybemaybe warp if you somehow reversed the flow of air in the engine all of a sudden after everything had warmed up directly after an exhaust cycle and it was sucking up really freaking cold winter air.....but seriously....

Don't be to much of a smart ass....

There is even a term for exactly what you are describing, its called reversion. At idle./low rpm with a high overlap cam when the piston starts down the cylinder the exhaust valve is still open but closing, and you suck in exhaust.

WHile you will never warp valves on a car, it is a big problem to have with a water jacketed exhaust on a boat.

AlboWRX · 04-04-2005, 08:43 PM

This thread blows. How about that BOV on that NA

Back Road Runner · 04-05-2005, 03:19 AM

It's possible to be too cold. There's really an optimum range you should run at for intake temps. Too warm, you get low density. Too cold, you begin to get problems with fuel atomization. It'll want to condense and then will burn less efficiently. It's something to consider when thinking about an intercooled NA. Colder isn't always better.

An intercooler has a purpose on a turbo'd car. The compressing of the air by the turbo creates heat. The intercooler counters this. For a NA car, you don't have that problem, so there's nothing to counter. Yes, you may be able to squeeze some minute amount of power by cooling the air some on hot days. However, you might lose that gain just by the extra effort the air has to go through just to run through the intercooler and all the additional piping. (not to mention added weight on the car)

Davenow · 04-05-2005, 07:57 AM

as they said, if you think this will do ANYTHING, you dont understand what an intercooler is and does.

Turbochargers REALLY heat the air charge up. The job of the intercooler is to bringit back down as close to ambient temps as possible.

AN INTERCOOLER WILL NOT BRING THE AIR BELOW AMBIANT TEMPS. (well, maybe if you are spraying co2 non stop, but thats not really practical)
Therefore
AN INTERCOOLER WILL DO NOTHING FOR A NATURALLY ASPIRATED CAR. actually, because it will be a big restriction in the intake tract, you will LOSE power.
No, you wont be able to cool the air at all on hot days, as the intercooler can only at best drop the air temp down to ambient temps. In other words, if you are sucking in 90 degree air, the intercooler cant get it below 90 deg.

This has got to be the dumbest thread I have seen in years

Sorry man, but you really need to do some reading and learn how engines actually work.

Davenow · 04-05-2005, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysteriousXTC

well then I would like to ask if it is possible to get air flowing to the engine that is to cold?... i.e. it would warp the valves or what not, since ive heard that running a vehicle with just headers presents the possibility of sucking cooler air back up the exhasust and warping the valves...

No its not possible. Do you have any idea how cold a dry shot of nitrous is?

Section 8 · 04-05-2005, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back Road Runner

It's possible to be too cold. There's really an optimum range you should run at for intake temps. Too warm, you get low density. Too cold, you begin to get problems with fuel atomization. It'll want to condense and then will burn less efficiently. It's something to consider when thinking about an intercooled NA. Colder isn't always better.

The question was if valves would be damaged from to cold of an intake charge.

If you want to talk about something else...

What you have described is a problem during a cold start, and quickly isn't a problem any more. THe fuel is already atomized out of the injectors if they are working properly, and fuel condenses on surfaces, NOT in cold air. THe area of the engine where gas can condense is quickly warmed up. Manufacturers do cold weather testing in refridgerated test cells that are far cooler than the weather conditions where their cars will be used.

If you live in an area where you can go outside with out completely covering your skin or else it will freeze in less than a minute you will never have to worry about getting too cold of air into your engine. If you do, then you might want to insulate the engine a bit by covering your grill/scoops (if you have them uncovered) to keep the opperating temperature normal. In any case you will not have to do anything with incoming intake charge. Vehicles in the antarctic/arctic do not need "interheaters" to run and that is the coldest place you will find on earth.

4/S/TURBO · 04-05-2005, 12:16 PM

Sorry, again for the over"cooled" subject. I apologize to anyone who may have had to get sarcastic or vicious about it. I have an unused tiny intercooler sitting in my shed from my FXT, and have modified my stock intake out of boredom's sake with various bits-n-pieces. I was talking with a mechanic friend of mine about slapping that intercooler on and we pretty much ended up concuring that it won't do anything but slow down the intake charge. I was going to search and see holes being ripped about it, but it was down, and then I saw the water injection thread. Nobody got bent out of shape over that so I just decided to post, hoping that maybe someone had recently done something inventive with an intercooler (not involving FI). I was poorly mistaken. I thank you for sharing your knowledge and my intercooler stays put.

04-04-2005, 12:33 PM	#1
4/S/TURBO Scooby Newbie Member#: 82402 Join Date: Mar 2005 Vehicle: 00 LGT 04 FXT	Intercooled NA? The search function has been disabled, and I'm sure this has been covered in depth, but I was wondering if putting an intercooler on the 2.5 will yield any useful gains or harmful side effects. Omahasubaru posted about water injection, so how about intercooling the intake? Thanks! -4S- * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

04-04-2005, 12:44 PM	#3
powerlabs Scooby Specialist Member#: 45790 Join Date: Oct 2003 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: New Jersey Vehicle: 2006 Corvette C6 Z51 SUPERCHARGED	Oh god please make the search function start working again!!! ^^^^ I I I

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04-04-2005, 12:34 PM	#2
Handsdown Scooby Guru Member#: 29355 Join Date: Nov 2002 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: seattle Vehicle: 2003 GD6 Hate chall but i'mma maintain	it's been covered. since the search is down, i'll let it slide... but you don't understand how an intercooler works if you think it'll do something for N/A

04-04-2005, 01:02 PM	#4
MysteriousXTC Scooby Newbie Member#: 66771 Join Date: Jul 2004 Chapter/Region: South East Location: High Point, NC Vehicle: 93 L w/ V4 STi RA	well then I would like to ask if it is possible to get air flowing to the engine that is to cold?... i.e. it would warp the valves or what not, since ive heard that running a vehicle with just headers presents the possibility of sucking cooler air back up the exhasust and warping the valves...

04-04-2005, 01:08 PM	#5
staticfritz Scooby Specialist Member#: 66934 Join Date: Jul 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Chicago, IL Vehicle: 2004 JBP FXT 2002 cammed OBS - RIP	cold air comes in the intake manifold, hot air exits from the headers. too cold? possible probably, but not with ambient air on this planet.... again, howstuffworks.com go find ou what an intercooler does, then come back. about the warping, intake valves are fine, exahust valves could in theory maybemaybemaybe warp if you somehow reversed the flow of air in the engine all of a sudden after everything had warmed up directly after an exhaust cycle and it was sucking up really freaking cold winter air.....but seriously....

04-04-2005, 01:40 PM	#6
AWD2.5 Scooby Newbie Member#: 43273 Join Date: Sep 2003 Vehicle: 2.5 impreza BRP	this was posted on rs25 and is intresting http://www.cryofuzion.com/ might get a kick out of this

04-04-2005, 03:02 PM	#7
FriedIceCream Scooby Guru Member#: 84154 Join Date: Mar 2005 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Katy,TX Vehicle: 2005 Mom's Altima Crusty Silver	whoa! this guy is kidding right? he might be legally slow brained...

04-04-2005, 08:43 PM	#9
AlboWRX Scooby Specialist Member#: 37719 Join Date: Jun 2003 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Chicago, IL Vehicle: 2003 WRX	This thread blows. How about that BOV on that NA

04-05-2005, 03:19 AM	#10
Back Road Runner Scooby Guru Member#: 60082 Join Date: Apr 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Minnesota Vehicle: 2004 Forester STI Silver	It's possible to be too cold. There's really an optimum range you should run at for intake temps. Too warm, you get low density. Too cold, you begin to get problems with fuel atomization. It'll want to condense and then will burn less efficiently. It's something to consider when thinking about an intercooled NA. Colder isn't always better. An intercooler has a purpose on a turbo'd car. The compressing of the air by the turbo creates heat. The intercooler counters this. For a NA car, you don't have that problem, so there's nothing to counter. Yes, you may be able to squeeze some minute amount of power by cooling the air some on hot days. However, you might lose that gain just by the extra effort the air has to go through just to run through the intercooler and all the additional piping. (not to mention added weight on the car)

04-05-2005, 07:57 AM	#11
Davenow Scooby Guru Member#: 23676 Join Date: Aug 2002 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: de_dust and Orgrimar Vehicle: .	as they said, if you think this will do ANYTHING, you dont understand what an intercooler is and does. Turbochargers REALLY heat the air charge up. The job of the intercooler is to bringit back down as close to ambient temps as possible. AN INTERCOOLER WILL NOT BRING THE AIR BELOW AMBIANT TEMPS. (well, maybe if you are spraying co2 non stop, but thats not really practical) Therefore AN INTERCOOLER WILL DO NOTHING FOR A NATURALLY ASPIRATED CAR. actually, because it will be a big restriction in the intake tract, you will LOSE power. No, you wont be able to cool the air at all on hot days, as the intercooler can only at best drop the air temp down to ambient temps. In other words, if you are sucking in 90 degree air, the intercooler cant get it below 90 deg. This has got to be the dumbest thread I have seen in years Sorry man, but you really need to do some reading and learn how engines actually work.

04-05-2005, 12:16 PM	#14
4/S/TURBO Scooby Newbie Member#: 82402 Join Date: Mar 2005 Vehicle: 00 LGT 04 FXT	Sorry, again for the over"cooled" subject. I apologize to anyone who may have had to get sarcastic or vicious about it. I have an unused tiny intercooler sitting in my shed from my FXT, and have modified my stock intake out of boredom's sake with various bits-n-pieces. I was talking with a mechanic friend of mine about slapping that intercooler on and we pretty much ended up concuring that it won't do anything but slow down the intake charge. I was going to search and see holes being ripped about it, but it was down, and then I saw the water injection thread. Nobody got bent out of shape over that so I just decided to post, hoping that maybe someone had recently done something inventive with an intercooler (not involving FI). I was poorly mistaken. I thank you for sharing your knowledge and my intercooler stays put.