Overheating Problem.... Help! (kinda long) but important

SubaTubaru · 05-26-2001, 02:00 AM

ok everyone, i got a 97 GT sedan 5 spd with 98,000 on it. I have been having this intermittant overheating problem, where my car will randomly think it is overheating, dump all the coolant into the reserve tank and start overflowing from it. I went to a dealer and they started "diagnostics". they replaced my thermostat and told me that was the problem, and that they fixed it and nothing was wrong anymore. well i drove home fine, but later that night i noticed my temp gague go up real fast, pulled over and saw the same darn thing. well the next morning i brought it to the dealer, told them it was not fixed, and they needed to gimme my money back blah blah... they refused, but said they would run tests on it for free to find out whats wrong.... anywahs... they said they could nto get it to over heat. and they noticed nothing wrong with it. HMMmmmmm... they also told me i was 2.5 quarts of oil low with no external leaks after 3,100 miles after last oil change. well they told me nothing was wrong and ot just drive it. that night i packed up for home from college, with my car filled to the tippy top of stuff! trunk full back seat full and passanger seat full! drove hom on Mtn roads just fine! went to go to airport next morning and WHAM overheat :-( I dont know what to do!!! anyone got any ideas?! please help :-( if anyone would like to pull my engine apart with me, i give full permission for anyone to do this with me! LOL.. i have no money, but this might be a fun project... please... anyone?! :-(
Mike

efoo · 05-26-2001, 04:20 AM

unfortunately, i suspect you have a blown head gasket. others have experienced the same symptoms you are describing and found that to be the case.

if you are still under warranty, you should go back to the dealer and insist that they ride with you until they see the problem happening firsthand, then fix it for you under warranty.

if you are not under warranty, email me - i have some options for you in the MA area.

-Edwin

kevinsUBARU · 05-26-2001, 05:26 AM

Good Luck! Unfortunately, I cant call you this time and tell you how to rip that crap apart

I would say a headgasget sounds very likley...but give your waterpump a looksie also (its much cheaper to replace than headgasgets).
Good Luck!
Kevin

Jan Shim · 05-26-2001, 05:31 AM

Mike,

The WRX water temp needle usually doesnt move unless there is serious overheating, which you no doubt have discovered (but unfortunately your dealer failed to take you seriously

)

From your description "dump all the coolant into the reserve tank and start overflowing from it" I would have to agree with Edwin that the possibility of blown gaskets is very high. If you check your coolant level (on a cool engine, of course!) and find that it has lost a lot of water then I'll say it's definite blown gaskets. A friend's STi was drinking 1 litre of water every morning until a month later when the engine could take no more, the pistons seized. The damage was quite severe resulting in new engine block and pistons

Fitz · 05-26-2001, 06:45 AM

Hmm... it's displacing the water... possibly with air. 3 quarts low?? I'd say that the oil is going into the coolant. Did you happen to see any contamination in the coolant? Other things to try before pulling the motor apart.. compression test and a leakdown test. It would help you get a better idea of what's going on.

Fitz

Patrick Olsen · 05-26-2001, 07:14 AM

Exactly the same symtoms I had on my '97 GT a few months back, and it was, in fact, two blown head gaskets. I replaced the thermostat and radiator cap myself when it overheated the first time, but it overheated a couple more times over the next few days. I had the dealer do the compression and leakdown tests, and they confirmed that both gaskets were bad. Fortunately for me, I was about 300mi within my 60k factory warranty, so I was covered.

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan

uncreative · 05-26-2001, 07:47 AM

A friend's 97 Outback just had the exact same thing happen. The dealer took 2 weeks to diagnose the problem, which turned out to be a blown head gasket. Good luck. -Dan

jmott · 05-26-2001, 10:11 AM

I had exactly this problem on my 96GT..MUSTANG.

seriously.

its getting looked at now.

pottsie350 · 05-26-2001, 10:24 AM

I'd agree with the majority of posters, it sounds like a head gasket. At worst a cracked or warped head or block. But most likely a head gasket. One easy way to check, is fire up the car with the radiator cap off. As the car warms up you will see tiny bubbles in the coolant as it flows past the hole where the radiator cap goes. The only way for air bubbles to get in the coolant like that is from a tiny pressure leak at the cylinder. It's an easy check that a lot of mechanics don't bother with.

If you or they determine that it is a gasket or crack, make sure you have the heads and block checked for warping or cracks. If the Temperature guage gets pegged, and there are air pockets in the heads from a pressurized air leak, some overheating damage may have occured.

SteveS · 05-26-2001, 12:28 PM

Head gasket(s) no doubt. Classic symptoms.

Steve<br> http://www.forcefed4.com/

popnGEAR · 05-26-2001, 12:54 PM

actually i had those exact same symptoms, but when i brought it in to get checked they just topped up the coolant and it was fine, no problems since.

but i doubt that it's the same case here.

SubaTubaru · 05-26-2001, 09:23 PM

hey guys thanks for the replies, any more would be appreciated! maybe timing belt? anyones timing belt go? what happens? umm, there was no oil going into my radiator fluid. this is aggrivating! anyone own a shop and want to make some money? My car is covered by an aftermarket warranty CO. they will pay to do engine repairs at a certified shop. transmission work must be done at a dealer. but this is not transmission. And if anyone wants to do this at their shop, take a look at other things in engine... if they are worn and causing performance decrease, the warranty Co will pay for replacements and labor. so maybe if anything is worn, they should be replaced (aftermarket lol) anything at all. If someone wants to help me, please PM me!
Mike

Patrick Olsen · 05-26-2001, 11:51 PM

Timing belt?

Not sure where that came from. But, just to put your mind at ease, no, these types of problems would not be caused by a bad timing belt. A bad timing belt would cause little things like the engine not running at all because the cams aren't spinning.

Trust us, man, it is almost certainly a blown head gasket.

You may not see oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil. Those are both "classic" blown head gasket indicators, but they often don't seem to work with the Subaru engines. I don't know what it is about the way the gaskets/water jackets/oil passages are set up, but I know I didn't have either problem when my gaskets went.

I also tried what pottsie350 suggested - checking for bubbles by removing the radiator cap (while the engine is cold, of course!). That was how I confirmed the gaskets on my Mustang were bad a couple years ago, but it didn't work on the Subaru. Again, I'm not sure why.

Go get the compression and leakdown tests done.

Pat

SubaTubaru · 05-27-2001, 12:04 AM

Hehehe ok ok! Thanks everyone!

Mikey B · 05-27-2001, 01:00 AM

I just got the same problem fixed on my car, not a Subie but it sounds like what happened to me. What is happening is the head gasket is blown and when the engine is nice and warmed up you are passing Exhaust gasses through the water Jacket, due to the heater core being the highest point of the cooling system the air, read Exhaust, is entering there and you are losing you internal heat. The exhaust then goes to the radiator and pushes the coolant to the overflow...
Good Luck man this really sucks cause I compression checked my engine a few times and the head seemed fine, but I talked to a few mechanics in the area and they ALL pointed to the head gasket, after I replaced it I have heat again and the car is nice and Cool.
Mikey B

Jan Shim · 05-27-2001, 04:34 AM

Pat,

On the WRX, it is perfectly normal to see bubbling coolant tank so this is not an indication of blown gaskets, at least not on the Subaru. Perhaps it's due to the water pump design that encourages pump cavitation, perhaps it's due to the horizontally opposing layout of the engine block, perhaps .. I have made several observations of this bubbling phenomenon on a number of WRX and concluded that it is normal.

Jan

[This message has been edited by Jan Shim (edited May 27, 2001).]

05-26-2001, 02:00 AM	#1
SubaTubaru Scooby Specialist Member#: 5343 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Burlington Ma Vehicle: 97 Legacy GT 4 tone red	Overheating Problem.... Help! (kinda long) but important ok everyone, i got a 97 GT sedan 5 spd with 98,000 on it. I have been having this intermittant overheating problem, where my car will randomly think it is overheating, dump all the coolant into the reserve tank and start overflowing from it. I went to a dealer and they started "diagnostics". they replaced my thermostat and told me that was the problem, and that they fixed it and nothing was wrong anymore. well i drove home fine, but later that night i noticed my temp gague go up real fast, pulled over and saw the same darn thing. well the next morning i brought it to the dealer, told them it was not fixed, and they needed to gimme my money back blah blah... they refused, but said they would run tests on it for free to find out whats wrong.... anywahs... they said they could nto get it to over heat. and they noticed nothing wrong with it. HMMmmmmm... they also told me i was 2.5 quarts of oil low with no external leaks after 3,100 miles after last oil change. well they told me nothing was wrong and ot just drive it. that night i packed up for home from college, with my car filled to the tippy top of stuff! trunk full back seat full and passanger seat full! drove hom on Mtn roads just fine! went to go to airport next morning and WHAM overheat :-( I dont know what to do!!! anyone got any ideas?! please help :-( if anyone would like to pull my engine apart with me, i give full permission for anyone to do this with me! LOL.. i have no money, but this might be a fun project... please... anyone?! :-( Mike

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05-26-2001, 04:20 AM	#2
efoo Scooby Specialist Member#: 80 Join Date: Jul 1999	unfortunately, i suspect you have a blown head gasket. others have experienced the same symptoms you are describing and found that to be the case. if you are still under warranty, you should go back to the dealer and insist that they ride with you until they see the problem happening firsthand, then fix it for you under warranty. if you are not under warranty, email me - i have some options for you in the MA area. -Edwin

05-26-2001, 05:26 AM	#3
kevinsUBARU Scooby Specialist Member#: 2263 Join Date: Sep 2000 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Funky Kingston, NY	Good Luck! Unfortunately, I cant call you this time and tell you how to rip that crap apart I would say a headgasget sounds very likley...but give your waterpump a looksie also (its much cheaper to replace than headgasgets). Good Luck! Kevin

05-26-2001, 05:31 AM	#4
Jan Shim Scooby Specialist Member#: 6366 Join Date: May 2001 Location: Brunei Vehicle: 1998 JDM Impreza WRX Silver	Mike, The WRX water temp needle usually doesnt move unless there is serious overheating, which you no doubt have discovered (but unfortunately your dealer failed to take you seriously ) From your description "dump all the coolant into the reserve tank and start overflowing from it" I would have to agree with Edwin that the possibility of blown gaskets is very high. If you check your coolant level (on a cool engine, of course!) and find that it has lost a lot of water then I'll say it's definite blown gaskets. A friend's STi was drinking 1 litre of water every morning until a month later when the engine could take no more, the pistons seized. The damage was quite severe resulting in new engine block and pistons

05-26-2001, 06:45 AM	#5
Fitz Scooby Guru Member#: 1426 Join Date: May 2000 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Goffstown, NH Vehicle: 2003 Evo, 2007 zx6r, 2000 SV650 Race Bike	Hmm... it's displacing the water... possibly with air. 3 quarts low?? I'd say that the oil is going into the coolant. Did you happen to see any contamination in the coolant? Other things to try before pulling the motor apart.. compression test and a leakdown test. It would help you get a better idea of what's going on. Fitz

05-26-2001, 07:14 AM	#6
Patrick Olsen NASIOC Supporter Member#: 120 Join Date: Jul 1999 Chapter/Region: AKIC Location: Where the Navy sends me... Vehicle: 1997 Legacy 2.5GT QuickSilver Metallic	Exactly the same symtoms I had on my '97 GT a few months back, and it was, in fact, two blown head gaskets. I replaced the thermostat and radiator cap myself when it overheated the first time, but it overheated a couple more times over the next few days. I had the dealer do the compression and leakdown tests, and they confirmed that both gaskets were bad. Fortunately for me, I was about 300mi within my 60k factory warranty, so I was covered. Pat Olsen '97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan

05-26-2001, 07:47 AM	#7
uncreative Scooby Newbie Member#: 6627 Join Date: May 2001 Location: Sac, CA Vehicle: 2003 wrx wagon	A friend's 97 Outback just had the exact same thing happen. The dealer took 2 weeks to diagnose the problem, which turned out to be a blown head gasket. Good luck. -Dan

05-26-2001, 10:11 AM	#8
jmott Scooby Guru Member#: 6713 Join Date: May 2001 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Houston TX USA Vehicle: 2000 MR2 Spyder RED	I had exactly this problem on my 96GT..MUSTANG. seriously. its getting looked at now.

05-26-2001, 10:24 AM	#9
pottsie350 Scooby Newbie Member#: 6110 Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Lonaconing, MD USA Vehicle: 98 Impreza L Red	I'd agree with the majority of posters, it sounds like a head gasket. At worst a cracked or warped head or block. But most likely a head gasket. One easy way to check, is fire up the car with the radiator cap off. As the car warms up you will see tiny bubbles in the coolant as it flows past the hole where the radiator cap goes. The only way for air bubbles to get in the coolant like that is from a tiny pressure leak at the cylinder. It's an easy check that a lot of mechanics don't bother with. If you or they determine that it is a gasket or crack, make sure you have the heads and block checked for warping or cracks. If the Temperature guage gets pegged, and there are air pockets in the heads from a pressurized air leak, some overheating damage may have occured.

05-26-2001, 12:28 PM	#10
SteveS Scooby Specialist Member#: 6 Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: South Jersey Vehicle: 2007 BMW 335i Montego Blue	Head gasket(s) no doubt. Classic symptoms. Steve<br> http://www.forcefed4.com/

05-26-2001, 12:54 PM	#11
popnGEAR Scooby Specialist Member#: 4616 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada Vehicle: 2002 S2000 New Formula Red	actually i had those exact same symptoms, but when i brought it in to get checked they just topped up the coolant and it was fine, no problems since. but i doubt that it's the same case here.

05-26-2001, 09:23 PM	#12
SubaTubaru Scooby Specialist Member#: 5343 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Burlington Ma Vehicle: 97 Legacy GT 4 tone red	hey guys thanks for the replies, any more would be appreciated! maybe timing belt? anyones timing belt go? what happens? umm, there was no oil going into my radiator fluid. this is aggrivating! anyone own a shop and want to make some money? My car is covered by an aftermarket warranty CO. they will pay to do engine repairs at a certified shop. transmission work must be done at a dealer. but this is not transmission. And if anyone wants to do this at their shop, take a look at other things in engine... if they are worn and causing performance decrease, the warranty Co will pay for replacements and labor. so maybe if anything is worn, they should be replaced (aftermarket lol) anything at all. If someone wants to help me, please PM me! Mike

05-26-2001, 11:51 PM	#13
Patrick Olsen NASIOC Supporter Member#: 120 Join Date: Jul 1999 Chapter/Region: AKIC Location: Where the Navy sends me... Vehicle: 1997 Legacy 2.5GT QuickSilver Metallic	Timing belt? Not sure where that came from. But, just to put your mind at ease, no, these types of problems would not be caused by a bad timing belt. A bad timing belt would cause little things like the engine not running at all because the cams aren't spinning. Trust us, man, it is almost certainly a blown head gasket. You may not see oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil. Those are both "classic" blown head gasket indicators, but they often don't seem to work with the Subaru engines. I don't know what it is about the way the gaskets/water jackets/oil passages are set up, but I know I didn't have either problem when my gaskets went. I also tried what pottsie350 suggested - checking for bubbles by removing the radiator cap (while the engine is cold, of course!). That was how I confirmed the gaskets on my Mustang were bad a couple years ago, but it didn't work on the Subaru. Again, I'm not sure why. Go get the compression and leakdown tests done. Pat

05-27-2001, 12:04 AM	#14
SubaTubaru Scooby Specialist Member#: 5343 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Burlington Ma Vehicle: 97 Legacy GT 4 tone red	Hehehe ok ok! Thanks everyone!

05-27-2001, 01:00 AM	#15
Mikey B Scooby Specialist Member#: 5160 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Beverly Harbor Vehicle: 1995 Jeep Cherokee 1975 Grady White 20' Boat	I just got the same problem fixed on my car, not a Subie but it sounds like what happened to me. What is happening is the head gasket is blown and when the engine is nice and warmed up you are passing Exhaust gasses through the water Jacket, due to the heater core being the highest point of the cooling system the air, read Exhaust, is entering there and you are losing you internal heat. The exhaust then goes to the radiator and pushes the coolant to the overflow... Good Luck man this really sucks cause I compression checked my engine a few times and the head seemed fine, but I talked to a few mechanics in the area and they ALL pointed to the head gasket, after I replaced it I have heat again and the car is nice and Cool. Mikey B

05-27-2001, 04:34 AM	#16
Jan Shim Scooby Specialist Member#: 6366 Join Date: May 2001 Location: Brunei Vehicle: 1998 JDM Impreza WRX Silver	Pat, On the WRX, it is perfectly normal to see bubbling coolant tank so this is not an indication of blown gaskets, at least not on the Subaru. Perhaps it's due to the water pump design that encourages pump cavitation, perhaps it's due to the horizontally opposing layout of the engine block, perhaps .. I have made several observations of this bubbling phenomenon on a number of WRX and concluded that it is normal. Jan [This message has been edited by Jan Shim (edited May 27, 2001).]