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Old 04-14-2005, 09:28 PM   #1
fizzak
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Default Trade-ins and salesmen

Going in tomorrow to see about what I'll get for a trade in. I am expecting a very lowball quote. I owe 3500 more than Edmonds says the car is worth as a trade-in. Kelley says I owe 5000!. Retail on my vehicle though is 20k, which is 2k more than I owe.

I'm going to offer to pay the quoted price of 25k and tell the salesmen to keep the $1500 rebate and take the car off my hands. This should leave around $1900 to haggle with. Is this reasonable?
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Old 04-14-2005, 09:31 PM   #2
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Make a deal on your new car, dont mention your trade till the salesman is on the hook, then base the entire deal on the value of your trade. The salesmen will bite esp if your gonna pay msrp. Dont give away anything to early. If he wont dont be afraid to walk out.

Jay
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Old 04-14-2005, 09:44 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McDade
Make a deal on your new car, dont mention your trade till the salesman is on the hook, then base the entire deal on the value of your trade. The salesmen will bite esp if your gonna pay msrp. Dont give away anything to early. If he wont dont be afraid to walk out.

Jay

So let him value the car first? Or should I make the offer before they appraise the car? I'm thinking if I lay down the law before he says anything It may raise my trade-in value.

Thanks for the tip.
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Old 04-14-2005, 10:02 PM   #4
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He means act as if you aren't trading anything and get a solid price on the car. Then, once you have them at $XXXXX OTD (always haggle OTD - you know exactly what you are paying then), tell them you'd like to trade something in towards it.

Oh, and you should go to Carmax first and have someone there appraise it. In my experience, they give you more for trades (even when you are buying nothing) than anywhere else. Don't trade it in there right away, though - take the Carmax quote with you to the dealer and use that if you need to.
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Old 04-14-2005, 10:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live-
He means act as if you aren't trading anything and get a solid price on the car. Then, once you have them at $XXXXX OTD (always haggle OTD - you know exactly what you are paying then), tell them you'd like to trade something in towards it.
You do realize that either way trading something in when you are in a negative equity situation will ALWAYS raise the price of the car. He could haggle to get it to the out the door price, then once he brings up the trade and it appraises for let's say 6k less then what he owes, that otd price goes up 6k. Just accept that you won't get out of your trade what YOU think it's worth, and have it appraised, and work from there. Once you come to terms with that, the car buying process is very easy, or sell it on the street and try to get close to what you owe on it.
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Old 04-14-2005, 10:53 PM   #6
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People always say "don't mention the trade" but what is the first or second thing out of every salesman's mouth - "Do you have a trade?" Do you just lie at that point and say you don't have one? Or just play it down like you haven't decided yet?
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Old 04-14-2005, 10:59 PM   #7
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The salesman knows I am bringing a trade. I cannot dispute his price with all the goodies on the car. I am aware I will go into negative equity on the trade. But I am hoping the rebate will cushon this and he wants move the car bad enough. That is why is ask if it is smart for me to lay down a deal before he appraises my car?
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Old 04-14-2005, 11:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austinpike
People always say "don't mention the trade" but what is the first or second thing out of every salesman's mouth - "Do you have a trade?" Do you just lie at that point and say you don't have one? Or just play it down like you haven't decided yet?
Either one. Depends on if you are comfortable outright lying or not. Just figure out what the sales price for the new vehicle is going to be BEFORE you begin negotiating what your trade-in is worth.
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Old 04-15-2005, 12:00 AM   #9
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I just speak from experience, because I am a car salesman. And to answer your question, yes, the rebate will eat up some of your negative equity. IMHO you should lease if your credit is good enough to do so. Because if you lease, you can put less money down, AND you'll have a lower monthly payment, and the residual at the end of your term will be a buying price that you can purchase the car for if you want to(which ALL added together will end up being less than outright buying it.) Hope that helps make your decision easier.
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Old 04-15-2005, 08:09 AM   #10
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Default Insteat of keeping up your revolving neg equity

Why don't you just keep your current car until you can at least break even? If it is worth 20k then it isn't a piece, not like you are driving a pinto or something. Negative equity leads to more negative equity. Lets say you go 4000 in the hole on this deal. say for the sake of numbers you buy a 25k car plus the 4k you are now looking at 29k for that car. Drive it off the lot, now worth 22k. By the way, those rebates are factored in what the car is worth by appraisers and insurance co's. Get hit by a drunk in a F250 next week, you are now 7 grand in the hole. Quit shooting yourself in the foot and get your money straightened out.
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Old 04-15-2005, 08:14 AM   #11
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^^^^^^ 12345
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Old 04-15-2005, 11:49 PM   #12
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And Make Sure To Get Gap Insurance!!!!
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Old 04-15-2005, 11:58 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by vtec_cbr
And Make Sure To Get Gap Insurance!!!!
only if the new loan is possibly worth more than the new vehicle's value (and any upside down transfer from the previous car), otherwise, not worth it.
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Old 04-16-2005, 12:40 AM   #14
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Default new car buying

I also sell cars. From the statement above Gap is always worth buying. If you leave the lot without it in positive or negative equity. Who knows what the car will be worth 2 or 3 years from now, with the unstable market. Also dont skimp the dealer on a little profit because if you give a little your going to get alot better service from them. You dont have to put the salesman's kids through college but if he's any kind of salesman he will earn what you pay him just in the time your there to buy. Let alone if you need something down the road. To get the best deal dont drop the trade on him at the last minute. Just tell him you don't know if your going to trade it or sell it out right. This way your not being untruthful. Dont fight on price either. If you going to haggle do it on payment. If you lowball them on payment, they will have to drop the price more than if you say I want it for X amount, and they come back with X amount you will be there all day. Lets be realistic noone cares what they pay for a car, as long as their ok with payment, interest, and term. If you need anymore advice let me know, but dont let the buying of the car be stressful have fun with it. It one of the times in life you get to put on your poker face and really play with someones head. Don't get upset when they come back with a high payment, just stay cool and stick to your guns. Most dealerships will load up a little in a trade to make a deal. Also my advice is to wait until a day when the weather is rainy, chances are they havent had much traffic that day and are going to want to make a deal. Cheers and good luck.
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Old 04-16-2005, 02:12 PM   #15
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Default Do some research on how to buy a car!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzak
The salesman knows I am bringing a trade. I cannot dispute his price with all the goodies on the car. I am aware I will go into negative equity on the trade. But I am hoping the rebate will cushon this and he wants move the car bad enough. That is why is ask if it is smart for me to lay down a deal before he appraises my car?
If you do it that way you're putting yourself entirely at the dealer's mercy, which is not a good idea.

Also, you're upside-down right now, and you're considering doing another purchase that will have you upside-down? That's not exactly good fiscal management. The only thing you're missing right now is bargaining based on monthly payments!

He knows you have a trade. What you say is "I'm not sure if I'll trade or not, I'm considering selling the car privately."

You have to negotiate the price of the NEW car first, and get it to where you want, or at least as low as you're able to. THEN start talking about the trade.

There are MANY web pages on how to negotiate car prices, and it's not hard. I got my TS for 2500 below list, (1500 subie rebate, dealer knocked off another 1000), simply by requesting an online quote.

My last car (a used one) they asked 8 thousand for, which also was book value, I got it for 6 thou.

Of course, I had the money in my bank account and could walk away from any deal they offered, I wasn't depending on their finance/trade offers. Also, I had all the time in the world to make a purchase. This gave me the CONFIDENCE you need to get a decent deal.
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Old 04-16-2005, 03:15 PM   #16
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I have to say droping the trade on them at the last minute works, because I have done it.

When I bought my first car, I didnt tell them about the trade even when they asked. Just tell them your just looking at the numbers on the new car at the moment.

Always worry about what you are paying for the car and the payment.

Anyway, they came back with an offer. Said I would have put 2500 down on the car. I said no way too much, they then brought it down to 2000 down. I said well thats better, but I want my trade to cover half of the down payment. It was worth about 500 bucks, and they did it.

There is alot of room to play with when buying new car. Some commision is better than no commission for a salesmen, they will take just about any reasonable offer as long as they are comming out on the + side. Moving cars off the lot is just as important to a dealer as is selling them at a good mark up. The more cars the dealers sell, the more kickbacks the dealer gets from the manufactuer, the more incentives they get on new inventory.

subaru salesman also get kickbacks directly from subaru when they sell the car, so they are making 2 commisions.

If you put your mind to it and play your cards right you can walk out of that dealer with a car for msrp or less, and no negative on your trade. You are going to have to pay more for the car if there is a large negative on your trade.

Jay
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Old 04-16-2005, 03:40 PM   #17
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I have to agree with the above, don't tell him about the tade till as late as possible.
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Old 04-16-2005, 05:30 PM   #18
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if there is any doubt that vtec_cbr is a car salesman his statments prove that he is. dealers love people to lease. with all the fees and the extremly high buy out price at the end of the lease it will cost quite abit more to own the vehicle than an outright purchase. if you can write the lease off as a company expense than leasing is ok to do.
oh and if you lease do not mod, get door dings, drive over 12,000 mi. a year, or try to return the car with worn ties. if you do you will pay,pay,pay!
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Old 04-16-2005, 05:38 PM   #19
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Default ...

Just be smart and don't go in with a damn huge head. They know that you know that they need to make a living, so the'll work with you. Be cool to them and they'll be cool to you!
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Old 04-17-2005, 03:24 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvaru
if there is any doubt that vtec_cbr is a car salesman his statments prove that he is. dealers love people to lease. with all the fees and the extremly high buy out price at the end of the lease it will cost quite abit more to own the vehicle than an outright purchase. if you can write the lease off as a company expense than leasing is ok to do.
oh and if you lease do not mod, get door dings, drive over 12,000 mi. a year, or try to return the car with worn ties. if you do you will pay,pay,pay!
first off, there probably was no doubt that i am a car salesman, secondly, umm, i sold a lease today to a guy, it's stupid not to lease if you can. you gotta think, there is a reason that ONLY good credit customers can lease, it's a privilege. the dude today was trying to buy an AWD 05 magnum RT. the purchase price of the car after taxes, fees etc... would have been 46k. I switched him to a lease, and the payments dropped like 150 a month, for 60 months instead of 72 months, he was going to be at 639/mo for 72 months 0 down. the lease would have been 489/mo for 60 months. and the residual (buyout) was only 9k at the end of the term, IF he wanted to purchase it at the end, he would pay a grand total of only 38k. hmmmmm which is smarter bro? not to mention, the average is 15k miles a year, so you get that allowance, and when somebody trades in a car they deduct dings and dents and scratches and worn tires anyway so that's the same. oh yeah, one other thing, on a trade when they calculate the mileage, they go by the same 15k miles a year, and if your trade has more than that, they deduct .25 cents per mile over from the value, and on a lease, only .15, hmmm interesting no? The ONLY place you were right was in saying not to mod. I don't know the guy, and I'm not going to be selling him a car, I wanna see him get as good a deal as anybody else here, so I wouldn't have suggested him leasing if it weren't a good idea, there is a reason why all the desk managers at my work lease their vehicles, hmm, they may be onto something.
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Old 04-17-2005, 11:04 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtec_cbr
first off, there probably was no doubt that i am a car salesman, secondly, umm, i sold a lease today to a guy, it's stupid not to lease if you can. you gotta think, there is a reason that ONLY good credit customers can lease, it's a privilege. the dude today was trying to buy an AWD 05 magnum RT. the purchase price of the car after taxes, fees etc... would have been 46k. I switched him to a lease, and the payments dropped like 150 a month, for 60 months instead of 72 months, he was going to be at 639/mo for 72 months 0 down. the lease would have been 489/mo for 60 months. and the residual (buyout) was only 9k at the end of the term, IF he wanted to purchase it at the end, he would pay a grand total of only 38k. hmmmmm which is smarter bro? not to mention, the average is 15k miles a year, so you get that allowance, and when somebody trades in a car they deduct dings and dents and scratches and worn tires anyway so that's the same. oh yeah, one other thing, on a trade when they calculate the mileage, they go by the same 15k miles a year, and if your trade has more than that, they deduct .25 cents per mile over from the value, and on a lease, only .15, hmmm interesting no? The ONLY place you were right was in saying not to mod. I don't know the guy, and I'm not going to be selling him a car, I wanna see him get as good a deal as anybody else here, so I wouldn't have suggested him leasing if it weren't a good idea, there is a reason why all the desk managers at my work lease their vehicles, hmm, they may be onto something.
Geez...you're a regular saint, aren't you.

MSRP on an 05 AWD Magnum is $32k, and the going rate on them including destination is roughly $31.5k. Throw in the $1000 rebate that's currently available, and the price out the door should be $30.5k. So you gave the guy the options of either lease/buying a $30k car for $38k or outright buying it for $46k. If I were your customer I would have laughed in your face and gone to another dealership that's willing to sell the cars at a reasonable profit.

Even with 0 down, on a $30.5k loan at 5.25%, his payment on a 60 month loan would have been about $580 and he would have owned the car outright at the end for $34.8k rather than the $38k that the lease would end up costing him. Your "favor" of getting him into a lease will end up costing him an extra $3000, most of which I'm sure turns into additional dealer profit or kickbacks from the leasing company.

You also conveniently failed to mention the up-front costs on the lease. No one leases a car with 0 down, so when you factor in the up-front costs, his lease will probably end up costing closer to $40k than the $38k that you'd like us to believe.
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Old 04-17-2005, 12:29 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck H
Geez...you're a regular saint, aren't you.

MSRP on an 05 AWD Magnum is $32k, and the going rate on them including destination is roughly $31.5k. Throw in the $1000 rebate that's currently available, and the price out the door should be $30.5k. So you gave the guy the options of either lease/buying a $30k car for $38k or outright buying it for $46k. If I were your customer I would have laughed in your face and gone to another dealership that's willing to sell the cars at a reasonable profit.

Even with 0 down, on a $30.5k loan at 5.25%, his payment on a 60 month loan would have been about $580 and he would have owned the car outright at the end for $34.8k rather than the $38k that the lease would end up costing him. Your "favor" of getting him into a lease will end up costing him an extra $3000, most of which I'm sure turns into additional dealer profit or kickbacks from the leasing company.
You also conveniently failed to mention the up-front costs on the lease. No one leases a car with 0 down, so when you factor in the up-front costs, his lease will probably end up costing closer to $40k than the $38k that you'd like us to believe.
please don't answer unless you're educated, I sell them, you don't, you have no idea what you're talking about, first off, it was 0 down, don't tell me i'm wrong, because that's how the deal went down, and if you want to know the truth, i only made a 100 dollar mini deal because the dealership lost almost 1k on the deal. i don't know how things are in new hampshire, but cars and stuff are a bit more expensive in las vegas. not to mention a fully loaded AWD RT model is way expensive, alot more thatn you say it is, so please, learn a little something before replying. and one of the ways you save money on a lease is that you're not paying the price of the car, only the depreciation. people usually trade in their cars after 3-5 years anyway, so why spend that extra money to buy it, when you're probably going to trade it in at the end of the lease anyway.sorry if i sound ticked off, but honestly, it's the best thing to do, and i plan on doing it when i buy a new car. why would i do it if it were bad? it's not bad, it's a great deal. However, i won't personally do it on the STi that i buy this summer only because i plan to mod, but if it weren't for that, hell yeah i'd do it, and you'd better believe that every car after that will be leased.
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Old 04-17-2005, 03:06 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtec_cbr
please don't answer unless you're educated, I sell them, you don't, you have no idea what you're talking about, first off, it was 0 down, don't tell me i'm wrong, because that's how the deal went down, and if you want to know the truth, i only made a 100 dollar mini deal because the dealership lost almost 1k on the deal. i don't know how things are in new hampshire, but cars and stuff are a bit more expensive in las vegas. not to mention a fully loaded AWD RT model is way expensive, alot more thatn you say it is, so please, learn a little something before replying. and one of the ways you save money on a lease is that you're not paying the price of the car, only the depreciation. people usually trade in their cars after 3-5 years anyway, so why spend that extra money to buy it, when you're probably going to trade it in at the end of the lease anyway.sorry if i sound ticked off, but honestly, it's the best thing to do, and i plan on doing it when i buy a new car. why would i do it if it were bad? it's not bad, it's a great deal. However, i won't personally do it on the STi that i buy this summer only because i plan to mod, but if it weren't for that, hell yeah i'd do it, and you'd better believe that every car after that will be leased.
Your story still has some problems though. I went to the Dodge.com website, and configured an 05 Magnum R/T with EVERY OPTION AND ACCESSORY YOU COULD POSSIBLY SELECT and still came to only $40 K MSRP. Oh, and for your convenience, I specified a Las Vegas area code, so that we could account for the "fact" that "cars are more expensive there."

This is what we have:

Model
- 2005 DODGE MAGNUM R/T AWD N Pkg. $32,070.00

Colors
- Primary: Bright Silver Metallic Clear Coat Included
- Interior: Dark Slate Gray/Medium Slate Gray Included

Power
- 5.7L HEMI V8 Engine 340 HP w/Multiple Displacement Included
- 3.07 Axle Ratio Included
- 5-Speed Automatic W5A580 Transmission Included

Options
- Leather-Trimmed Bucket Seats Included
- P225/60R18 BSW Touring Tires Included
- 18" x 7.5" Aluminum Wheels Included
- 6 Boston Acoustics Speakers Included
- DVD-based GPS Navigation System with 6-CD/MP3 Chngr $1,895.00
- SIRIUS Satellite Digital Radio $195.00
- UConnect Hands-Free Communication $360.00
- Eight-Way Power Driver's Seat Included
- Electronics Convenience Group $630.00
- Air Conditioning Included
- Convenience Group II $925.00
- Roof Rack and Cargo Organizer Group $410.00
- Protection Group $590.00
- Trailer Tow Prep Group $350.00
- Cold Weather Group $40.00
- Electronic Stability Program Included
- Smoker's Group $30.00
- Cargo Compartment Cover Included
- Power Sunroof $950.00


Accessories
- Touring Package $406.00
- Protection Package $569.00

Base Price $32,070
N Pkg. $0
Options $6,375
Accessories $975
Destination $675
MSRP $40,095 *
Net MSRP
$40,095
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Old 04-17-2005, 03:46 PM   #24
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+market adjustment +protection package of 2k +vtr and doc fee and smog etc... for a grand total of 46k including taxes. my story has no flaws because i was there, i know what happened. trust me, i would have loved to have made more than $100 on the deal, but i didn't. all of your speculations don't change the facts of what happened.
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Old 04-17-2005, 04:21 PM   #25
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But aren't market adjustments and protection packages just pure profit?
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