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Old 04-12-2005, 01:45 PM   #1
trbowrx
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So i Have been searching online for a while now and i came across this water injection kit http://www.coolingmist.com/detailpage.aspx?pid=02

now the deal is i have a utec and i have had it costom tuned by the great guys at TXS my mods are the basic stage 4 with a front mount intercooler running 20 psi. now if i add this kit will i see any gains or will i just make my tune safer. it just looks like a good put together kit and a really nice price! so my question is will i see gains or would i have to have a costom tune again to see any gains?
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Old 04-12-2005, 03:16 PM   #2
jlp7t
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Unless your current tune is getting knock and removing timing then you won't get any performance gains from adding water injection. It's pretty much the same thing as adding octane - you have to tune for it.
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Old 04-12-2005, 03:19 PM   #3
Rickyh
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I have that kit and recently upgraded to a 2 stage setup. When I first installed it with one injector I didn't notice any gains. It actually made things a tad slower in my case. But after I leaned it out and bumped up the boost......it was an entirely different story. Make a copy of your good map so you can lean it out a bit and add more boost.

In short, you probably will need to get tuned for it, but it will be well worth it.
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Old 04-12-2005, 05:12 PM   #4
trbowrx
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ok well i see knock in my map like every once in a while but not o a regular basis, but i am still thinking about getting it and leaning it out some and turning up the boost a lil more.
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Old 04-12-2005, 07:41 PM   #5
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Hey. I'm in the same situation as you with the same questions.

Except I haven't bought a water-injection kit yet...
Any recommendations? I heard Aquamist is good, but I'm not sure what kit I need.

I have a Utec Stage 4 + FMIC tuned at TXS.
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Old 04-13-2005, 12:35 AM   #6
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People have used that kit or variations of it with good results. I have only had first hand knowledge of the Aquamist 1s kit, with very good results. The product support from Richard Lamb in the UK has been extrordinary and the US distributers are easy to deal with. I have to let Brad at Kansas City Saab stand out with his tuning knowledge and guidance for applications.

In the performance area, I used a .6 jet when my car was stock with a smidgen decrease in buttdyno force. I was able to fill up with regular gass and save $2.50 every fill up.

When I got the TXS stg 4 put together, I got it tuned with and without water. The water tune got me almost 30hp and 30ft/lbs.

Last note, Aquamist components are expensive, but you can pick them up used.
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Old 04-13-2005, 12:36 AM   #7
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Well, you should be able to get different size injectors from whoever you buy the kit from. I bought 3 and played around until I got the setup that I liked. I would think that if you got a really small injector, say a 1 or 2 gph, you could probably run your map as is, and supress any knock. Copy your map to a few different spots on your utec so you can play with it. You can turn the water injection off if you want to run without it. It really isn't that hard.
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Old 04-14-2005, 01:43 PM   #8
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How does the coolistmist water injection kit ($240) compare with the Aquamist kits ($400-800)?

Does the Aqua do the job better or something?
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Old 04-14-2005, 05:23 PM   #9
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Coolingmist uses 1-2 stage injection - it starts injecting with a smaller nozzle at lower boost pressure and then another larger nozzle activates at higher boost pressure.

Aquamist consists of a simple single stage, to fuel IDC mirroring, all the way up a fully mappable WI system (similar to the utec fuel map).

The main distinguishing factor between aquamist and every other WI system is that aquamist components are custom designed and built ground up for WI - ie the pump, nozzles, everything. I've found as I experiment and try to get more gains out of my WI, the more the WI system needs to look like the fuel delivery system - meaning consistent water pressure in the lines, good atomization and proportional delivery of water to the load placed on the engine.

It is my belief, that while aquamist is not perfect, it is closer to the ideal than the other kits I've researched. The drawback is out-of-the-box flow. The aquamist pump flows less than the shurflo pump (fixable via priming pump). However, it cycles much faster than the shurflo, so you get more consistent flow. The shurflo pressure switch is also unsuitable(IMHO) to WI. It has a 20psi hysterisis, which is much too large.

So its really a question of how optimal do you want your WI to be.
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Old 04-15-2005, 12:30 AM   #10
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So overall, the aquamist waterinjection kit would be a better product? Sounds like it.

Which AQUA kit do I need? A,B,C?
I'm a n00b with these kits...
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Old 04-15-2005, 12:43 AM   #11
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I think it comes down to how much you want to get out of water injection when you ask what is "better".

If you just want to run crap gas and still be safe on a otherwise tame or slightly modified setup, the I would say Aquamist overkill. You could save money building your own, or using the SMC enterprises or cooling mist type setups.

If you want to run a highly modified setup north of the mid 300 HP mark and you need a three dimensional progressive water delivery system, Aquamist can accomodate with their higher end kits which are built up from the base 1s kit by adding bits and pieces that were designed to operate together.
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Old 04-15-2005, 02:41 AM   #12
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Agreed - it all depends on your setup. I have a stage 4+ hybrid that is being handicapped by cali gas - which frustrates the crap out of me. So I'm on a personal quest to have my water/alky injection squeeze out the performance my upgrades should be getting me. Typical aquamist 2D setups tuned correctly will net about 30hp. I have the 2D, but I'm not satisfied so I plan to assemble a megasquirt EFI kit to drive the aquamist HSV for full mapping capabilities. If you're running an EBC and have a utec, you can use the utec to drive the HSV for full mapping as well.

Keep in mind, WI adds another dimension to tuning...so you must tune it to get gains. If you like tinkering and experimenting, I would start out with a basic aquamist kit because it allows for an upgrade path as your WI goals get more sophisticated or aggresive. If you're a fire and forget kind of guy, perhaps a simple 1 or 2 stage system like coolingmist is for you.
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Old 04-15-2005, 10:53 AM   #13
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Would it be possible to run a smaller jet, ie lower percent injection rate, on a car not tuned to use WI? I am currently running a vf34,sti pinks, catless system, hyperflow v2 tmic and cobb engine managment. I do not plan on getting the tunre, which would allow the optimazation of WI, but would like to use it non the less. Thanks
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Old 04-15-2005, 04:26 PM   #14
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Theoretically yes - I haven't tried running a smaller jet without tuning. If you run low enough flow just to completely evaporate the water, you'll have lower intake temps. If you have more it should help with det, but I'm not sure whether it would decrease power at that point. I would post this question to:

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2
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Old 04-15-2005, 05:37 PM   #15
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I'm moving to Cali next summer. WI and a catalytic converter are on my "to buy" list. I hoping that when i'm ready to buy, the utec will play a more active role in WI. I would hate to have to buy another computer/controller.
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Old 04-15-2005, 10:21 PM   #16
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What sort of system would be best for me with an AEM standalone that I can use to provide full 3d control of the WI setup? I've seen some people that PWM the pump relay to control output, and some that PWM the solenoid valve... i really dont know what would be the best place to start.
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Old 04-16-2005, 01:08 AM   #17
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Using PWM to control the pump doesn't work very well. Flow from the nozzles is not linear with respect to pump voltages so as you increase voltage you'll get diminishing returns on nozzle output.

If you want cheap, get a shurflo pump, nozzles and the aquamist HSV. Use the AEM to keep the HSV completely closed at boost pressures below your target. But all other map points above, you can start sending positive signal and get your full 3D setup.
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Old 04-16-2005, 05:05 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JScoob
Using PWM to control the pump doesn't work very well. Flow from the nozzles is not linear with respect to pump voltages so as you increase voltage you'll get diminishing returns on nozzle output.

If you want cheap, get a shurflo pump, nozzles and the aquamist HSV. Use the AEM to keep the HSV completely closed at boost pressures below your target. But all other map points above, you can start sending positive signal and get your full 3D setup.
Scoob,

You are correct, PWM to the pump cannot alter the pump speed fast enough due to inertia of the motor. Secondly, the motor speed is not proportional to actual flow - it tends to flatten off near the top as backpressure increases.
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Old 04-16-2005, 05:08 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by member7107
Would it be possible to run a smaller jet, ie lower percent injection rate, on a car not tuned to use WI? I am currently running a vf34,sti pinks, catless system, hyperflow v2 tmic and cobb engine managment. I do not plan on getting the tunre, which would allow the optimazation of WI, but would like to use it non the less. Thanks
A small nozzle flowing about 10% of water to fuel triggering at maximum torque region will allow you to run you r engine with added safety.
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Old 04-18-2005, 11:16 PM   #20
samwY
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Richard L, I PM'ed you.
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Old 04-19-2005, 04:40 AM   #21
Richard L
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I think the choice for water injection system is largely depenant on your future tune, I believe aquamist allows to continue to build, and integrate with other third party ECU as the tuning strategy become more complex - just as JScoob mentioned - The invest for a water injection system is relatively low cost compared to engine swap or rebuild.
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