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Old 04-13-2005, 12:32 PM   #1
bugman1964
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Unhappy no start on ej20g after fuel injector swap

Alrighty heres my problem. i needed to change out my fuel injectors so i disconected the fuel pump and swapped out all 4 injectors to my original ej18 injectors, i DID NOT disconect the battery however. once i was done i reconected the fuel pump and tried to start it,the car would crank but not run. it feels liek the fuel pump isnt running, because there is no preasure in the hoses. there also is no spark.And to add some weirdness to it once ya turn off the key after cranking the battery and oil light stay on even with the key out of the ignition .You can even work the windows and blower motor.Disconnect the negative terminal and reconect it the lights are out and the windows dont work with the key off like there supposed to.Im wondering if i fried the ecu but that doesnt explain the windows.Just as a side note i swapped out the ecu main relay ,fuel pump relay and fuel pump/level sender with known good parts.

Please any help or suggestions

By the way my car is a 93 impreza L started off as a 1.8L now has a ej20g in it car had been working electrically fine since the swap until today.
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Old 04-14-2005, 12:38 PM   #2
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scuba chad any one ?
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Old 04-14-2005, 02:28 PM   #3
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check all the stock wiring harness grounding points.
i had this problem in my legacy, there is a bolt right by? or on the passenger fuel rail that i left off, and caused that exact same problem.

good luck, let me now if that fixes it.
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Old 04-14-2005, 02:51 PM   #4
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I may be way off, but this was my problem when I changed mine....Did you disconnect your fuel lines under the hood when you did all this??? If so pull them off and try to start the car, make sure you are getting fuel to the engine. When you put them back on make sure you put the feed line and the return lines in the right order, I had mine backwards. And don't forget to put a rag under the lines to catch the gas! Also, is the fuel pump priming when you turn the key? At least this will confirm you are getting fuel to the engine. Also check to see that the injectors are seated right and no gas is leaking out around them.
Good luck
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Old 04-14-2005, 03:20 PM   #5
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Zorro has it right. It's your ground on the passenger side of the manifold. either loose or not attached. TIghten it up and the problem will clear right up.
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Old 04-14-2005, 07:54 PM   #6
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wheres the ground on pass side? now that ya mention it i kinda rememebr messing with a wire over there. is it next to the fuel rail near the preasure reg?

as far as the fuel pump goes its not priming either
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Old 04-15-2005, 12:01 AM   #7
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It's on the top of the manifold towards the back on my RS. It mounts right near one of the fuel rail bolts if I remember correctly. It's a big silver circle. Just trace the wiring over there and you can't miss it.
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Old 04-15-2005, 12:32 AM   #8
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Check your ignition fuse too...come to think of it check all your fuses but your ign fuse first. Its behind your change cup by your left knee.
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Old 04-16-2005, 02:48 PM   #9
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yeah ive check all the fuses the only thing i havent done is swapped out those 3 or 4 black relays on the fuse panel behind the knee bolster ill do that today though and let yall know what i find about the ground wire too
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Old 04-16-2005, 03:01 PM   #10
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I had a similar problem. The green SBF fuses under the hood one of them went out. By looking at it, it looked fine. When I finally pulled it out, I noticed it was rattling a little. Replaced it and the car started right up.
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Old 04-16-2005, 07:08 PM   #11
bugman1964
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well looking has been delayed due to unavailable are of which my car is at.

Chad where is said fuse located?and what does sbf stand for?
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Old 04-17-2005, 07:14 PM   #12
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ill put a bump on this since chad doesnt seem to check often on the weekends and it keeps getting bumped off the list
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Old 04-17-2005, 09:08 PM   #13
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things to check:

1. when you turn the key to the "on" position (not crank), can you hear the
fuel pump prime? it will make a buzzing sound from the tank every time you turn the key on. If you cannot hear it, go as far as to pop your gas cap, stick a funnel in the tank to use as a megaphone, and have someone cycle the key to thet on position. It should be obvious if the fuel pump is priming.

2. check the fuses. do not just pull them and inspect them visually, fuses can be blown and not necessarily look like it. Backprobe the fueses using test light, turn the battery on (always check fuses w/ battery on) and ensure that each fuse has POWER to both sides. If you find one that does not have power, honk the horn, turn the lights on, flash the brights, crank the engine until it has power. Each fuse should power up ON BOTH SIDES. if it powers up on one side and nothing on the other, the fuse is blown.

btw, i believe the fule pump has its own relay, definately swich those relays around and see if it effects anything, that could very easily be the issue.

3. Check the grounds that you may have messed with. If the engine is cranking and not starting, I doubt thats necessarily the problem, but its always good practice to check known grounds when diag electrical problems.

4. Check fuel lines to fuel rails and to the fuel filter. Check connections to the fuel rails where the o-rings are at. They should all be connected and tight. The lines are different sizes so that you cannot accidentally cross them. If you smell fuel under the engine bay stop immediatly and find the leak. I use an air compressor to spray off spilled fuel when checking for a leak (wear safety glasses). btw a line would have to be totally disconnected for the vehile to not start, in which case you would be puking fuel everywhere.

5. Check Spark, When you ensure that there is no fuel leak check for spark. Easiest way to do this is to disconnect one plug wire from the coil, when cranking it should arc to the manifold. Dont touch the wire when cranking, youll shock your balls off (literally, since ull be leaning agaisnt the car at your waiste line).

6. Check your wiring to the injectors to insure you didnt leave something loose, also make sure your coil pack is plugged in.

7. Check for fuel. Do this by disconnecting your coil pack (disable spark) and crank the engine. Immediatly pull a spark plug. it should smell and/or drip gas off if it.

8. If you have all of the above, the cylinder walls could potentially be washed down (when fuel washs the oil off the walls not allowing them to seal). This can happen by flooding your car, and happens often when playing w/ the fuel system. Easiest way to solve this problem is to do this:
Hold gas pedal to the floor and crank the engine for 15-20 seconds. Holding the gas pedal down will tell the ECU to use much less fuel for starting than normally. This will clear out the cylinders and allow oil pressure to seal the piston rings. Once the car starts (if it does) just be careful not to over-rev the engine. Many people are scared to try this, its no big deal, you will see hwen you try.

Thats all of the obvious things I can think of. Lastly, do you have a check engine light present? If so, pull the code and find out what it is. Perhaps you knocked another sensor loose like a crank or cam sensor. ANything is possible. Even if you had a loose ground you may get a check engine light for a bunch of unrelated things. If there is EVER a CEL present, its important to know what the code is.

-Jake
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Old 04-18-2005, 12:31 AM   #14
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The fuse I'm talking about is under the hood by the battery.

I'm having a similar issue with my ej18/20/22/25. It cranks over now, but it just doesn't want to start. I suspect a bad crank or cam sensor but here is what I know.

1. Each cylinder is getting spark. With an extra plug we tried all the wires by grounding it to the intake manifold and cranking the engine.

2. It's got compression 130ish all the way around

3. The injectors seem to be getting a signal. I know they are getting a 12v, will know tomarrow on the pulse when we check with a FLUKE. Interestingly a test light would dimly light, I swapped ECU's and suddenly it was super bright. Almost as if the injectors were getting 5v instead of 12.

4. Fuel might be an issue, when we pulled the plugs there was hardly a fuel smell to them. They weren't even dripping which is weird because we cranked on it for a good half hour.

5. Optima batteries are strong. A yellow top that has been sitting since december has spent a good solid hour of cranking and still has some life left in it.

6. I'm wondering if maybe the cam sprockets are backwords. The one that says "R" is on the passenger side and the one that says "L" is on the driver side. If it's backwords maybe the cam sensor has nothing to read?

7. Does the ej20g possibly have a different crank sprocket for the timing belt or maybe for the crank sensor? I'm using the sprocket off my ej22 which is what came out of the car.

Thanks again for the tips Jake, I'll look into that tomarrow. We also will have a Fluke handy since a Jaguar tech (they get lots of practice) will be helping me with the troubleshooting. I personally don't claim to be a mechanic, but I do know the car pretty well.

Chad
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Old 04-18-2005, 01:03 AM   #15
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Chad, as I stated before in person. SOMETIMES the JDM crank sprockets are different than the USDM ones. We found this out the hard way at my old work when we dropped a JDM EJ18 into an old brighton. However, instead of not starting, it just ran horribly.

Just make sure that your cam sprocket matches your ECU. Since you say you have spark, im doubt that is the problem. I also believe the cams are on correctly, R should be the Right/Passenger side of your car. Check the back of the cam sprocket for notches. These are the reluctors. If there is none on the back on the side where your cam position sensor is, then you got it on backwards.

However Cam/Crank sensors are cheap. Around 20 bucks a pop. So if you WANT to, you can always throw those parts at it. Subaru does have a problem with them failing. You would nto be able to test them without a labscope and an understanding of what the Sine waves are supposed to look like.

If you have spark, i would expect for you to have fuel. Have you done a fuel pressure test? It sounds like the injectors are pulsing so if there is fuel pressure behind them, then fuel should be VERY apparent. If you have to, you can even disable the ignition coil and pull a fuel rail up. have someone crank for a second, fuel should go everywhere.

Another dumb question is... are you sure you have fuel? Ive seen people diagnose a car that is out of gas. Sometimes people put in a new fuel pump that physically works, but the ball float gets stuck or becomes inop, and the whole time, the car is out of gas.

Remember chad: Spark+Fuel+compression=boom. The engine should be trying to run if you have all those.

Jake
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Old 04-18-2005, 11:23 AM   #16
bugman1964
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yeah my problem is i dont have a fuel pump prime or spark just a crank ive tried swapping the main and fuel pump relay also swapped ecu's and checked fuel injector wiring so im thinking bad cam or crank sensor cause it was running before the injector swap. or bad fuse/ shorted wiring. ive been meaning to go test with a dvom but havent had a chance t oget back to my car
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Old 04-18-2005, 11:53 AM   #17
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I'm 99% sure that the ej18 injectors do not have the same fit as the injectors for the 20g. We tried the same thing in our rally car and hydrolocked a cylinder from fuel. If you pull out the injectors, shine a light into the cylinder. If you see fuel sitting there, you've got a bad seal.
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Old 04-18-2005, 12:06 PM   #18
bugman1964
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were actually using the legacy 2.2t pinks but it was running so rich it was fowling out my plugs withing 100miles so were dropping down to the ej18's till i get an emanage
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Old 04-18-2005, 12:55 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geek Guy
I'm 99% sure that the ej18 injectors do not have the same fit as the injectors for the 20g. We tried the same thing in our rally car and hydrolocked a cylinder from fuel. If you pull out the injectors, shine a light into the cylinder. If you see fuel sitting there, you've got a bad seal.

I am using the 1.8 intake manifold and 2.2 n/a heads. with the EJ20G block so this is not an issue. The only thing that has changed is the block itself.

It's sounding more and more like a fuel issue. I think I might swap some relays around, maybe put some more gas in it, even though I have a 1/4 tank according to the meter. When my assistant gets here, we'll pull the fuel line off and see if we are getting gas. I was real surprised that the spark plugs barely smelled like fuel when we pulled them.

I'm also going to pull the pulleys and check for crank and cam marks. Maybe even clean them up a little.

Chad
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Old 04-19-2005, 12:21 AM   #20
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heres the diff. for the ej18 and ej20g injectors:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=708312
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Old 04-19-2005, 01:53 AM   #21
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I see what you mean on the injectors, but since I'm running an ej18 intake manifold and ej22 red top injectors, the point is mute.

Anyways, it's running, we put the timing back, swapped ECU's, swapped in a few different crank and cam sensors. I really don't know what fixed it, but it runs great now. Idles like stock... which it's not.

Thanks for your help everyone. Now it's on to some tuning.

Chad
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Old 04-19-2005, 11:20 AM   #22
bugman1964
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did you boost yours chad or is it just na?
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Old 04-19-2005, 03:00 PM   #23
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Where's the fun in n/a???
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Old 04-20-2005, 05:51 PM   #24
bugman1964
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just update... no fix yet

I tested all the fuses there all good.Looked for an additional gorund wire didnt find anythign there that wasnt hooked up.Swapped all known relays with known good ones. including relays in both fuse boxes.

Im wondering if maybe its a faulty ignition switch.

The thing that is totally baffling me is the accsesories that still work with the key off and out like the blower fan the power windows and if ya actuate the turn signal lever it makes a crazy buz sound.I just dont see how any of these items are connected to the starting system. unlesss maybe there run through the instrument cluster.
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Old 04-20-2005, 06:18 PM   #25
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im tellin ya.. it HAS to be a ground, it did the exact same thing to me when i did my EJ20G swap into my legacy.. it was the passenger side intake manifold ground.
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