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Old 03-10-2011, 03:58 PM   #1
svynx
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Default The air/water intercooler thead

There has been a lot of talk about air/water intercooler systems lately. For a lot of us, we thought that the only real application for these was for drag cars. Also, the thought of using one for a daily driver was usually shot down by our fellow forum members, mainly because the majority of people didnít understand them. I still researched what it would take to make an AWIC system work. Thatís when I ran across a thread by Turbineguy. He had a very good write-up with documentation and true real world data to back things up. Iíll sum it up since it is a fairly long thread:

- AWIC systems work very well and efficiently
- For a daily driver, the heat exchanger is the most important part. If not properly sized, the system will not work as well
- having a reservoir mounted outside of the engine bay helps tremendously because of the added water volume and cooling effects

A little data:
- intake temperatures at the throttle body rarely went over 12 degrees over ambient temps with most times staying 5-10 above ambient
- water temps never went above 6-8 degrees above ambient

If you feel like looking/reading the thread: http://www.iwsti.com/forums/water-meth-injection-nitrous-intercooler-cooling/199117-t-gs-air-water-ic-build.html

He linked the website where he purchased his system, and itís where I went as well. All parts are being purchased at www.frozenboost.com. Iíve had good communication from them (Iíve always gotten an email back within 24 hours of sending them one), and their parts are quality as of yet. I first purchased all the fittings, silicon parts, and clamps that I will use on my system. In the next few days, Iíll place another order for the core, heat exchanger, and water pump. I will be purchasing a system that can handle 600hpÖmuch higher than what my goal is. Main reason is the core. The one I would like to have can only flow 450cfmís. The turbo Iím looking at can flow more than that, so there is no headroom at all. The core I am purchasing can handle 700cfmís. My plan right now is to hit 300whp and stay there until life allows me to purchase another daily driver. That would allow the subie to sit if needed while work is done to it. At that point a EJ207 would be installed, and who knows what output Iíd go with. By going with the 600hp system, I wonít have to worry about changing it at that point.

Iím hoping that once my AWIC system has been up and running for a while that we can finally say that these systems are truly worth looking at. It should give standard air to air front mounts a run for its money. Hard to argue with front mount cooling capabilities (or better) without the 8 feet of piping and a large core to pressurize. I will have about 2 feet of piping and a core that has less cubic inches than the stock intercooler has. Cost wise is also a plus. The cheapest front mount intercooler I found (new) that kept the fog lights was from Godspeed. $405 plus shipping. Then you would have to buy a new intake. If I had gone with the standard equipment for the AWIC, I would have spent around $350 for the whole thing (the 350hp setup is a little cheaper than that). The direction Iím going will have another $150 or so into it. So, if you are looking at some of the well known, respectable, quality front mount systems out there that cost $600-$1000, with or without a new intake, going with an AWIC might look like a good place to save a little cash (which could then be put towards something else).

I will try to document the install as well as I can. Even though this is high on my priority list right now, my wedding plans are higher. So, Iíll work on the car as I have the free time. I'll post up a pic of the parts I have already soon. Camera is charging.
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Old 03-12-2011, 09:48 AM   #2
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My main concern with FMICs had always been safety. I don't like the idea of pulling out my front bumper. I followed your link to IWSTI, and I'm sold on WAIC benefits. Still, he took out the bumper (as you would with a FMIC.

Had you looked into a solution that does not need to do that? I was thinking about a couple of smaller heat exchanger or something like that.

Any thoughts on it?
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Old 03-13-2011, 03:53 PM   #3
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I think that would all depend on how you mount the heat exchanger, and also on which exchanger you go with. Some are smaller, and could be mounted somewhere else. Hypa (from that link) had a slightly different mounting idea. He did have to modify the bumper beam a little, but I'd say 90% was still there. All depends on how comfortable you are with cutting a little material away. You could also go with the JDM bumper beam, which would also save you on some weight.
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Old 03-17-2011, 01:50 PM   #4
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My rides in the shop right now for a knocking main. To save the shop some money since its under warranty, I decided on doing a AWIC install and a turbo install. I bought the same kit as the OP, the 600hp kit with the ice box and all that jazz. The shop owner is actually stoaked since he's never done a AWIC before. I'll post the results. The turbo going in is a TD06 20g.

Edit - I got the design im using from SpeedyHam on here.
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Old 03-17-2011, 02:11 PM   #5
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Very nice. My remaining parts should arrive tomorrow. Saturday I'll install the exchanger and pump, along with some of the tubing. Sadly I won't be able to get the system running for a little while. My reservoir box still needs welded, so that will have to wait. I adjusted my CAI to give me the most space in the fender for the box. I should total about 3 gallons of water in the system. Came up with an ingenious way of mounting the box...battery tie downs. That way if I would ever need to take it out, two bolts and down it comes. I'll get some pics of the exchanger install.
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Old 03-17-2011, 02:36 PM   #6
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Where are you mounting the intercooler? Mines going in the stock TM location so i put reflect-a-gold on it to help with heat the metal will like to soak in. Add in a GS pnp job with ceramic coating and a heat blanket I'm hoping it'll keep water and intake temps lower. Just something you may want to think about in your build. I may wrap the ice box depending on how hot the trunk gets in the summer, damn black cars.
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Old 03-17-2011, 02:44 PM   #7
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Same location. I was thinking of painting the core, but haven't decided if I'm going to or not. I too was going to have the turbo ceramic coated. Haven't decided on the blanket though. It's a good idea. My box will be mounted inside the fender, getting cooler air over it whenever the car is moving.
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Old 04-06-2011, 05:58 PM   #8
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Small update. Since I was laid off this past Thursday, work on the car has picked up a little. The heat exchanger is mounted. Sorry for the bad angle. We were fixing an a/c line while the exchanger was being mounted and I couldn't get a good head on shot of the work. But, I can tell you it was fairly easy. I did have to cut the bumper beam a little. I wasn't too comfortable with that, but I couldn't find any other way to mount the exchanger where it needed to go. Then, two holes were drilled, and the bumper cover was trimmed. I saved some of the larger pieces so I could plasiweld them back in (this was after we cut things out to make room for adjustment, and saw that we didn't need to take that much out).









When I have a chance to get a better pic (with better lighting), I'll post that up.

Next item to install is the pump and reservoir tank. Tank should be made by now. Still need two things: battery tie-down (for the tank), and the 3/4" hose. I'm going to use standard radiator hose which can be purchased at Lowes/Home Depot for fairly cheap. Then, I get to fill the system and do a leak test before taking it out for a drive.
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:09 PM   #9
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looks good cant wait to hear how its working for you, ive been tinkering with the idea of an awic systems
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Old 04-10-2011, 08:40 PM   #10
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its most effective out of tmic, fmic, & awic.
not to mention the smallest size.

yes you have to have heat exchanger, pump & reservoir and controller.
but if you can keep front bumper beam and the ability to support as much or
more flow rate compared to fmic minus the inter-cooler piping and throttle response
of tmic...

not to mention intake charge temps as low as ambient or lower.
which means more power.

i'm trying to acquire the pieces parts to swap over.
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Old 05-18-2011, 01:06 PM   #11
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My installs done.

It consists of -

A ice box in the trunk
C&r racing radiator
Type 19 AWIC from forzenboost.com
two johnson bildge pumps - flow rate of 1450GPH each


So far I've done 180 miles of driving. Yesterday i did 20 miles through 405 rush hour traffic, thats about 45 mins at 0-20mph. When I stopped I check my intercooler and it was cool to the touch. Earlier that morning it was raining out and quite cool, I did an hour of driving to my house from the shop. The intercooler was cold and the ice box had condensation on it. I will admit these results are with 0 boost, my bov is not connected (need stiffer spring) and its untuned for the new turbo. I cant wait to get this on the dyno. I'll grab some pics when i have time.
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Old 05-18-2011, 08:53 PM   #12
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Heres a few pics.







Please forgive the crappy pics and i know my paint sucks. Thats what happens at the track.
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Old 05-19-2011, 06:53 PM   #13
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Love the way this setup is laid out, especially with all the elbows making the custom "piping."
What'd the whole setup cost you? and any idea what it weighs all together?

Other than cost and weight...are there any down sides to AWIC setups? Perhaps complexity...? (more things that can break?)

Seems like the best of both worlds, great cooling and no lag. I've always wanted one, just to trounce all the FMIC fanbois out there. >_<

Last edited by mowgli29; 05-19-2011 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 05-19-2011, 07:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowgli29 View Post
Love the way this setup is laid out, especially with all the elbows making the custom "piping."
What'd the whole setup cost you? and any idea what it weighs all together?

Other than cost and weight...are there any down sides to AWIC setups? Perhaps complexity...? (more things that can break?)

Seems like the best of both worlds, great cooling and no lag. I've always wanted one, just to trounce all the FMIC fanbois out there. >_<
Well it was around 800 for the entire setup. Couldn't tell you on weight, there was atleast 30 pounds shed out of the front bumper for the raidiator. The only thing i can see breaking is the raidiator, either by road debris or bottoming out too hard. The pumps will eventually go but the pumps i bought are quick change. Which means the body stays put but the internals get switched out. I can't wait to get this on the dyno.
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Old 05-19-2011, 07:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwrx03 View Post
Well it was around 800 for the entire setup. Couldn't tell you on weight, there was atleast 30 pounds shed out of the front bumper for the raidiator. The only thing i can see breaking is the raidiator, either by road debris or bottoming out too hard. The pumps will eventually go but the pumps i bought are quick change. Which means the body stays put but the internals get switched out. I can't wait to get this on the dyno.
Not too bad price wise. Whatever weight you gained I'm sure will be worth it.

Didn't even consider the pumps dying... that might be a snag for me, I drive ~30k miles a year.
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Old 05-19-2011, 07:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowgli29 View Post
Not too bad price wise. Whatever weight you gained I'm sure will be worth it.

Didn't even consider the pumps dying... that might be a snag for me, I drive ~30k miles a year.
Good thing is the pumps i have are so damn load i'll know when they die. And the marine shop is 3 miles from my house helps too.
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Old 05-19-2011, 07:41 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by bwrx03 View Post
Good thing is the pumps i have are so damn load i'll know when they die. And the marine shop is 3 miles from my house helps too.
Hahaha, not too shabby!

I was gonna ask if they were just bilge pumps or what...but then I looked up a bit. What does a rebuild cost?
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Old 05-19-2011, 07:52 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by mowgli29 View Post
Hahaha, not too shabby!

I was gonna ask if they were just bilge pumps or what...but then I looked up a bit. What does a rebuild cost?
The cartridge is 29.99
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Old 05-20-2011, 12:01 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Gluis View Post
My main concern with FMICs had always been safety. I don't like the idea of pulling out my front bumper. I followed your link to IWSTI, and I'm sold on WAIC benefits. Still, he took out the bumper (as you would with a FMIC.

Had you looked into a solution that does not need to do that? I was thinking about a couple of smaller heat exchanger or something like that.

Any thoughts on it?
I meant FMIC Air to Air IC. I like the AWIC since the heat exchanger is a tad smaller, and you don't have to pass big tubes to/from engine bay, meaning that you can keep most (if not all) your bumper.
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Old 05-20-2011, 12:52 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwrx03 View Post
My installs done.

It consists of -

A ice box in the trunk
C&r racing radiator
Type 19 AWIC from forzenboost.com
two johnson bildge pumps - flow rate of 1450GPH each


So far I've done 180 miles of driving. Yesterday i did 20 miles through 405 rush hour traffic, thats about 45 mins at 0-20mph. When I stopped I check my intercooler and it was cool to the touch. Earlier that morning it was raining out and quite cool, I did an hour of driving to my house from the shop. The intercooler was cold and the ice box had condensation on it. I will admit these results are with 0 boost, my bov is not connected (need stiffer spring) and its untuned for the new turbo. I cant wait to get this on the dyno. I'll grab some pics when i have time.
I'm in the process fo installing a AWIC, and I would like to know where your water hoses go through. I mean, underneath the car? inside the cabin?. Can you specific, and if you have any pic of them, I will appreciate it. It does not have to be a good pic, just anything that gives me the general idea.

Thanks in advance,

GS
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Old 05-20-2011, 01:16 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluis View Post
I'm in the process fo installing a AWIC, and I would like to know where your water hoses go through. I mean, underneath the car? inside the cabin?. Can you specific, and if you have any pic of them, I will appreciate it. It does not have to be a good pic, just anything that gives me the general idea.

Thanks in advance,

GS
Its inside the car. Its under the rear seat and goes up along the center divider between the driver and passenger on the drivers side. I'll grab a few pics and post it later when i have a chance.
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Old 05-20-2011, 02:53 PM   #22
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Thank you!

Do they heat up the cabin significantly? I live in a fairly hot zone.

Regards,

GS
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Old 05-20-2011, 03:27 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluis View Post
Thank you!

Do they heat up the cabin significantly? I live in a fairly hot zone.

Regards,

GS
Nope haven't noticed anything.
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Old 05-20-2011, 03:32 PM   #24
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Sorry if I'm being too inquisitive. Where the hoses pass through the firewall? Passenger side? which hole?

I just want to do things right the first time around.

Thanks again,

GS
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Old 05-23-2011, 06:41 PM   #25
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firewall pic

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