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Old 11-01-2007, 05:57 PM   #1201
NvrenuffWRX
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Richard,
I would like a failsafe on my 2d/dds3 setup. You showed a diagram with a macvalves valve part # 36A-AAA-JDBA-1BA. Is this the valve i need to use in my setup? I have a MBC by the way. Is there a website that I can order this from? Can you give a wiring diagram for the dds3 v3 with the failsafe solenoid.
Thanks,
Tyler
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Old 11-01-2007, 09:46 PM   #1202
hurricane123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquamist View Post
My answers in Blue.
Are the above flow ratings with no boost pressure at the nozzle? I have seen nozzle size calculators that include boost pressure (pump pressure-boost pressure)in calculating flow rate. Should this be taken into consideration here?
Yes, you need to substract the manifold pressure before retrieving the flow from the chart.

ie. Race pump pressure @ 100 and boost pressure (max) @ 21psi would be 79psi at the nozzle? If so then the .6 nozzle would be flowing ~245cc/min at max boost?
Yes, it is about right.

Another thing that I am concerned about is mounting the nozzle on the outlet side of the TMIC or the coupler between the IC and TB. Since the system is based on one injector pw is this too close to the intake for proper distribution of the fluid to all four cylinders?
Most Subarus put the jet before the TMIC for better distribution reasons.

I know that it has been suggested to run 2 staggered nozzles but there really isn't any room to do that. I don't want to inject pre-IC as it gets pretty cold here in winter (-40C) and I don't want to have any freezing issues, or reduce the efficiency of the stock IC in summer.
I wouldn't run water injection in winter unless you put methanol in the tank to prevent the system freezing up. It is a problem in places that drops to -40C. I don't know the solution.

I guess I am just looking for some confirmation that water distribution is even in the typical post-IC locations.
I believe the Subaru has a satilite cavity before branching out to the runners to each cylinders. I guess mounting it after the TMIC is not that bad after all.
Thanks for the reply Richard. I will be running 50/50 meth/water.

Can anybody else chime in who uses the FIA2 where you have the nozzle located?

Jeff
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Old 11-04-2007, 02:50 AM   #1203
WReXd
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Richard, I have the 100cc anti-surge accumulator, and was wondering... should I be worried about the pressure inside? It's used and may no longer be pre-pressurized @ 100psi. What effects would altering the pressure have, and should I increase/decrease it?
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Old 11-07-2007, 08:36 PM   #1204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NvrenuffWRX View Post
Richard,
I would like a failsafe on my 2d/dds3 setup. You showed a diagram with a macvalves valve part # 36A-AAA-JDBA-1BA. Is this the valve i need to use in my setup? I have a MBC by the way. Is there a website that I can order this from? Can you give a wiring diagram for the dds3 v3 with the failsafe solenoid.
Thanks,
Tyler

MAC Series 36 solenoid valve:

http://www.macvalves.com/Catalogs/NT/36.pdf
http://www.macvalves.com/PDFS/36_Series.pdf

where to buy:
http://www.macvalves.com/distributors/USA.htm
Part #:36A-AAA-JDBA-1BA
they are about ~$20+

when you call then to buy these valves, just tell them "i want to by a mac valve part #36A-AAA-JDBA-1BA". Do not mention alky injection or failsafe or anything as this will CONFUSE the #%$* out of the sales person!!




Wiring diagram:

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Old 11-07-2007, 08:40 PM   #1205
Aquamist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WReXd View Post
Richard, I have the 100cc anti-surge accumulator, and was wondering... should I be worried about the pressure inside? It's used and may no longer be pre-pressurized @ 100psi. What effects would altering the pressure have, and should I increase/decrease it?
If you have a 100cc accumulator (nice size by the way). The air chamber should be pre-pressurised between 40-60psi, somewhere half way of your water pressure.

There will be little use as an accumulator of the air chamber is the same as your WI system pressure. Too little has no anti-surge effect.
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Old 11-07-2007, 10:52 PM   #1206
WReXd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquamist View Post
The air chamber should be pre-pressurised between 40-60psi, somewhere half way of your water pressure.
So 40-60 psi is about half of the race pump's pressure?
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Old 11-08-2007, 03:33 AM   #1207
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Race pump is calibrated at 7bar (100psi) from the factory.
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Old 11-10-2007, 04:34 AM   #1208
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I'm planning on using a 0-12v progressive MAP based controller to control my race pump. Will varying the voltage input to the positive wire work?

Last edited by WReXd; 11-10-2007 at 05:07 AM.
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Old 11-10-2007, 05:26 AM   #1209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WReXd View Post
I'm planning on using a 0-12v progressive MAP based controller to control my race pump. Will varying the voltage input to the positive wire work?
The Aquamist pump generate it own PWM signal within. Do not try modulate the pump with other controllers, you will damage the pump.
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Old 11-10-2007, 05:31 AM   #1210
WReXd
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so there's no way to vary the race pump's flow? how does the perrin kit do it?
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Old 11-10-2007, 05:39 AM   #1211
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The centre pin of the Perrin pump is different form the standard aquamist pump, the 30pin connector is different too so the two pumps cannot be wrongly put together.

If you want me to convert the pump for you to be able to receieve modulated signal, you need to send the pump back to us. I cannot take responibility beyond that point. The pulse width and frequency sent to the pump is very critical. You hav eto knopw excatly what you are doing.
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Old 11-10-2007, 05:42 AM   #1212
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I'm willing to do that. What kind of modulated signal will I need to send it, and how much will it cost to get done?
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Old 11-10-2007, 05:48 AM   #1213
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It won't cost you anything but you need to pay for the shipping both way to England (airrmail post is more reasonable). I will let you know the detail on the signal, cannot publish this in public.
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Old 11-10-2007, 08:12 PM   #1214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquamist View Post
I may have used the wrong words. The blue and red wire will become active under two conditions:

1. after you have triggered the enable input with a 12V (pin4-left column)
2. after the flow sensor has registered flow inside the window area.

I suggest hard wire pin 4 to pin2 (left column) to obtain a +12V. Then try again.
Nope, this this is getting exasperating.

I put a jumper so that the grey wire (pin 4) is hooked into the red wire (pin 2) relay wire. Both are reading 12 volts all the time.

The red wire and blue wire go to my relay and don't do anything. When flow is detected, the voltage of the blue wire changes a bit, but neither the blue or red wire are going to ground.

I have tried the Window adjust fully clockwise and fully counterclock wise and it makes no difference.

THe weird thing is if I check the voltage to the screw of the grey wire, it is seeing greater than 6volts, even when there is no wire hooked into the plug.
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Old 11-11-2007, 01:50 PM   #1215
a6n6d6y
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what do you guys think of this nozzel placement

as far as even cylinder distribution


"yes i know what happens if it comes loose"
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Old 11-11-2007, 07:02 PM   #1216
Aquamist
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My answer in Blue:

Quote:
Originally Posted by drdeuce View Post
Nope, this this is getting exasperating.

I put a jumper so that the grey wire (pin 4) is hooked into the red wire (pin 2) relay wire. Both are reading 12 volts all the time.

This is normal. If the blue wire is not activated to ground, both pin of the relay will read 12V.

The red wire and blue wire go to my relay and don't do anything. When flow is detected, the voltage of the blue wire changes a bit, but neither the blue or red wire are going to ground.

When the flow is detected (with the grey wire still connected to 12V), the blue wire will switch to ground. If it does not, please have a look at the underside of the circuit board and see if there are any blown tracks.

Does the little "up" arrow on the right side of the bargraph lights up?


I have tried the Window adjust fully clockwise and fully counterclock wise and it makes no difference.
Withthe grey wire still connected to 12V and the bars are within the the windowed area, does the little arroew lights up?


THe weird thing is if I check the voltage to the screw of the grey wire, it is seeing greater than 6volts, even when there is no wire hooked into the plug.

This is strange, can you check all the wire colours is correctly terminated into the correct screw terminal. Again check the underside of the circuit board fopr blown track.
The DDS2 is over five years old, has it been working correctly during those times?
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Old 11-11-2007, 07:06 PM   #1217
Aquamist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a6n6d6y View Post



what do you guys think of this nozzel placement

as far as even cylinder distribution


"yes i know what happens if it comes loose"

Wow, this is a very nice fabrication. There is no guarantee that any droplets will not hit any of the walls during their travel. But this arrangement appeared to give it every chance to perform better.

I really don't know the answer.
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Old 11-11-2007, 07:42 PM   #1218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquamist View Post
Wow, this is a very nice fabrication. There is no guarantee that any droplets will not hit any of the walls during their travel. But this arrangement appeared to give it every chance to perform better.

I really don't know the answer.
Richard,

What kind of fittings are available to attach a nozzle directly to a hard-line flare fitting, which would be ideal for the above? All my prior experience is with big V8 motors and NoS type plumbing, so even if my concern is unwarranted the plastic tubing and compression fittings make me nervous (especially since I want to lean out and add timing ...boost failsafes are easy, but I'm tuning on a reflash so i can't "switch to a safe map" to pull timing and add fuel in a hurry ).

Ideally, I'd like to set up my manifold for port water injection to avoid wet flow (to keep wet flow out of the 90* bends inherent in a Subaru manifold). This would also make it feasible (though likely unnecessary) to use a nozzle size appropriate for each cylinder's VE.

So, can I lose the tubing barb and thread the working bits of an Aquamist nozzle onto some standard type of fitting?
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Old 11-11-2007, 08:14 PM   #1219
drdeuce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquamist View Post
I may have used the wrong words. The blue and red wire will become active under two conditions:

1. after you have triggered the enable input with a 12V (pin4-left column)
2. after the flow sensor has registered flow inside the window area.

I suggest hard wire pin 4 to pin2 (left column) to obtain a +12V. Then try again.




Which wire that goes to the display is the one that lights up the "B" lightswhen power is sent to the boost valve input? I assume its the blue wire (pin 4 right)? It is getting 14 volts, but the light are not coming on.

I have not check the underside to see if any tracks are blown, but if they are, would 14 volts still go to the Boost light on the gauge?

Last edited by drdeuce; 11-11-2007 at 08:29 PM. Reason: question answered
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Old 11-11-2007, 08:21 PM   #1220
drdeuce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquamist View Post
My answer in Blue:



The DDS2 is over five years old, has it been working correctly during those times?

I bought it 2 years ago, and have not had it working yet.
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Old 11-11-2007, 08:55 PM   #1221
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My answers in Red:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquamist View Post

I put a jumper so that the grey wire (pin 4) is hooked into the red wire (pin 2) relay wire. Both are reading 12 volts all the time.

This is normal. If the blue wire is not activated to ground, both pin of the relay will read 12V.

The red wire and blue wire go to my relay and don't do anything. When flow is detected, the voltage of the blue wire changes a bit, but neither the blue or red wire are going to ground.

When the flow is detected (with the grey wire still connected to 12V), the blue wire will switch to ground. If it does not, please have a look at the underside of the circuit board and see if there are any blown tracks.

No blown tracks.


Does the little "up" arrow on the right side of the bargraph lights up?

No. But the Blue wire to the gauge is seeing 12v. This leads me to beleive the problem is with the gauge, and not the junction box


I have tried the Window adjust fully clockwise and fully counterclock wise and it makes no difference.
Withthe grey wire still connected to 12V and the bars are within the the windowed area, does the little arroew lights up?

No, they appear to dimly flicker, but this may just be from the flow lights next to it.


THe weird thing is if I check the voltage to the screw of the grey wire, it is seeing greater than 6volts, even when there is no wire hooked into the plug.

This is strange, can you check all the wire colours is correctly terminated into the correct screw terminal. Again check the underside of the circuit board fopr blown track.

All wires are wired up correctly, except I had to switch the flow and calibration (green and yellow wires) coming from the sensor since they were reversed. The green one was the one changing when flow is detected.
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Old 11-11-2007, 08:56 PM   #1222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drdeuce View Post
Which wire that goes to the display is the one that lights up the "B" lightswhen power is sent to the boost valve input? I assume its the blue wire (pin 4 right)? It is getting 14 volts, but the light are not coming on.

I have not check the underside to see if any tracks are blown, but if they are, would 14 volts still go to the Boost light on the gauge?
The blue wire. If you ground the blue wire, the "B" light wil come on. If it doesn't, it has a burnt track.

Try grounding the blue wire and let me know. The unit doesn't need to see flow for this test.
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Old 11-11-2007, 09:01 PM   #1223
Aquamist
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Can be measure all the voltages on each pin relative to ground (pin11) for me?
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Old 11-11-2007, 09:29 PM   #1224
Aquamist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Living Weapon View Post
Richard,

What kind of fittings are available to attach a nozzle directly to a hard-line flare fitting, which would be ideal for the above? All my prior experience is with big V8 motors and NoS type plumbing, so even if my concern is unwarranted the plastic tubing and compression fittings make me nervous (especially since I want to lean out and add timing ...boost failsafes are easy, but I'm tuning on a reflash so i can't "switch to a safe map" to pull timing and add fuel in a hurry ).

Ideally, I'd like to set up my manifold for port water injection to avoid wet flow (to keep wet flow out of the 90* bends inherent in a Subaru manifold). This would also make it feasible (though likely unnecessary) to use a nozzle size appropriate for each cylinder's VE.

So, can I lose the tubing barb and thread the working bits of an Aquamist nozzle onto some standard type of fitting?
What type of fitting do you have in mind?
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Old 11-11-2007, 09:56 PM   #1225
a6n6d6y
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Living Weapon View Post
Richard,

What kind of fittings are available to attach a nozzle directly to a hard-line flare fitting, which would be ideal for the above? All my prior experience is with big V8 motors and NoS type plumbing, so even if my concern is unwarranted the plastic tubing and compression fittings make me nervous (especially since I want to lean out and add timing ...boost failsafes are easy, but I'm tuning on a reflash so i can't "switch to a safe map" to pull timing and add fuel in a hurry ).

Ideally, I'd like to set up my manifold for port water injection to avoid wet flow (to keep wet flow out of the 90* bends inherent in a Subaru manifold). This would also make it feasible (though likely unnecessary) to use a nozzle size appropriate for each cylinder's VE.

So, can I lose the tubing barb and thread the working bits of an Aquamist nozzle onto some standard type of fitting?


just FYI I used the copper as conduit for the plastic tube,the nozzle does not touch the copper however

I lightly crimped the copper at the nozzle to make it steady
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