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Old 04-16-2005, 01:01 PM   #1
revel
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Default GC swap options

i have searched here and on RS25.com about this. most of the threads seem to be people debating back and forth with little usable info.

i am wanting around 300WHP on a reliable daily driver. something i wont have to tune regularly to keep it running properly. the car will stay a daily driver and will be used for autox, drift events, and possibly rallyx.

anyone with information or links to useful info (not debates on what is better) i would like information regarding the swap, cost, overall reliability, and upgrade ability once 300whp isnt enough anymore.

overall i want an engine that will stay with me even after it hits the 100,000 mark and keep going strong.

i have been researching the EJ22, WRX USDM/JDM, and STi USDM/JDM but am still unable to figure which way is the best option for what i want.

thanks in advance for your help.
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Old 04-16-2005, 01:36 PM   #2
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Read the FAQ and do a search, tons of information man. Good luck...
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Old 04-16-2005, 02:29 PM   #3
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Best option no argument is the EJ257. Cost figure 10 grand to do it right. Lately the main concern for swaps have been emissions, keep this in mind.
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Old 04-16-2005, 02:29 PM   #4
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a stage 2 USDM STI will do over 300whp without breaking a sweat
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Old 04-16-2005, 02:33 PM   #5
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yea man .. i was looking into those options as well for my 95 L ... Ill help you so you wonth ave to search much.. well my suggestion for you is depanding on wheat model gc you have.

If you have a pre 97 gc your best bet is to go with an obd 1 motor like a jdm ej20g with harness and oem ecu or even an early sti motor ... ej22t isnt a bad choice either. im just not sure what work has to be done to the heads in order for them to flow 300 hp.

If you have a 97 and after gc i suggest anyting with the obd2 port so you can pass emisions. either the usdm ej20 becuase its relatively cheap and affordable or the usdm sti. Im not sure if obd 2 scans can pick up the jdm sti ecus. my friend with a kouki s14 has his sr20det and the obd2 scans couldnt see it so he failed.

Well if you want reliability make sure you get the oem harness and ecu of the engine installed. dont use any piggybacks because that affects reliability esp if you live in weather that is constantly chnging.
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Old 04-16-2005, 08:12 PM   #6
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theres alot of info on rs25, i know because i posted half of it LOL

my setup was a sti motor swap, if u want 300 WHP a motorswap is the way to go...
my car stock setup did 240WHP...
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Old 04-16-2005, 11:45 PM   #7
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first of all thanks for the responses.

my gc is an 01 coupe. i am aware of what engines are available and would love to put a usdm sti engine/tranny/dccd but 14k is alot more than i will have for some time. this is why i am trying to figure the best way to slowly build up a fairly reliable turbo engine. with the usdm wrx swap how far can you go before the internals need upgrading?

my basic thought or idea is an EJ22T with Ver7 STi heads. the EJ22T is cheap and fully closed and from what i understand it stays pretty reliable. this way i could swap in the shortblock now (well once i have the money for everything) and then wait until i can get some Ver7 STi heads and mate them to the EJ22 block. i have read that the GC SOHC heads flow pretty well with the EJ22 so i would have no problems sticking with that until i get the STi heads. what i havent really seen is whether or not the EJ22 swap is emissions friendly or the possibility of my idea being emissions passable. maybe if i use the USDM STi ECU? if any of this is wrong someone let me know.

how much difference between the EJ22 swap and the USDM WRX swap? how much to bore the USDM WRX 2.0 into a 2.2? cheaper to just get USDM STi shortblock with WRX swap? sorry for all the questions but most of the threads i have found from searching have alot of off subject posts and a lil bantering here and there making it hard to find the actual info i am looking for. i have also searched RS25 and i-club with similair results.

Last edited by revel; 04-16-2005 at 11:47 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 04-17-2005, 12:13 PM   #8
FuJi K
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At most for street, for me I'd go 300whp.

This is the setup I'm going with. I have a MY93 EJ22T. Will be putting Crawford forged pistons and billit rods in w/ new cryoed rod and crank bearings, and total seal piston rings. I'll be getting the engine balanced via Machine shop in town. I'll be using MY98 DOHC heads with JUN 264 cams and valvetrain kit. Will be strapping on a Section 8 STi turbokit, contains GT30R turbo. I have to find myself a FMIC, probably APS's version for the GC8. Will run Hydra stand alone ECU w/ MY99 intake manifold. Fuel with Crawford 80lb stg 2 fuel kit, walbro fuel pump. This is what I have planned. we'll see what happens this summer. Hopefully I'll have the engine done by then with the heads.

I'll be building up the EJ22 NA motor after this. Will be putting forged pistons in (8.0:1 CR), EJ22T rods and new bearings. Will be running the SOHC RS heads on this one. Will shoot for 30whp and have this motor for street. It'll be going into my buddies RS. Yes, it's open deck, but WRX's run open too! There are a handful of RS's with internal upgrades on the stock block.
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Old 04-17-2005, 12:25 PM   #9
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My opinion is a Sti JDM EJ20 motor, cheaper than usdm. Tons of power. Ecu can be read on obd2, not a problem. Really comes down to how much you want to spend.
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Old 04-17-2005, 12:49 PM   #10
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going JDM was my first idea when it came to an engine swap. will the JDM engines pass emissions? where can i get a good quality front clip? only other thing is the thought of having a brand new block from Subaru/Crawford/Axxis. i know typically the JDM engines come with around 30-40k and thus are already broken in. so the thought of putting a brand spankin new block into my GC seems like it would be the best way to go. maybe not......i really dont know which way to go. too many options!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EJ22T-closed deck-reliable under boost-brand new
EJ20(V6/V7 JDM)-semi closed deck-high revs-under 40k
EJ20(USDM)-semi closed-cheap-easy to find-easy to replace parts
EJ25(USDM STi)-semi closed-dcccd-easy to replace parts-EXPENSIVE!!!!!

????????????????????
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Old 04-17-2005, 01:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by underground-mpyre
My opinion is a Sti JDM EJ20 motor, cheaper than usdm. Tons of power. Ecu can be read on obd2, not a problem. Really comes down to how much you want to spend.
how cheap? where did you find yours? how much was the front clip? how much was shipping? how much was install?

hopefully you will be able to answer these questions as you are running exactly what i dreamt of when i bought the GC.
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Old 04-17-2005, 02:23 PM   #12
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Well I plan on doing a USDM STi swap and trust me it's not cheap... if you can find a crashed STi that hasent been hit in the front your lucky because if you buy every single part like I am it all adds up to around 20,000 where as you may be able to find a crashed STi anywhere which I couldent from 12-15,000
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Old 04-18-2005, 11:11 PM   #13
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anybody running a JDM Ver7 STi (w/ AVCS) engine/tranny and the JDM Ver8 TwinScroll turbo on their GC? if money were no problem this is the swap i would get hands down.....well unless their were someway to get a TRUE 22B STi engine/tranny/DCCD......hell i would just buy a 22B and swap all the VIN plates over from my USDM GC. actually from some research i found there are some states that will allow a 22B fresh from Japan on their streets/highways after simply registering the car as a "collectors car". since it was a limited production car by putting the collector plate on it there is no need to make it US smog legal. if only i had the $50k to buy one, then another $30 to get it registered as a "collector car".

but back to the subject. where can i find JDM front clips? can places like GR8Wheels/Gruppe-S/??????? source/find one for me? would i 'need' the front clip? or can i get the "whole engine"/ecu/wiring harness and be fine(maybe needing to source a couple of parts) ? sorry for all the noob questions, but alas i still am if i have to ask these questions.
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Old 04-19-2005, 01:17 AM   #14
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how hard is it to mkae a ej22t legacy get 300 whp?
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Old 04-19-2005, 04:51 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revel
anybody running a JDM Ver7 STi (w/ AVCS) engine/tranny and the JDM Ver8 TwinScroll turbo on their GC? if money were no problem this is the swap i would get hands down.....

but back to the subject. where can i find JDM front clips? can places like GR8Wheels/Gruppe-S/??????? source/find one for me? would i 'need' the front clip? or can i get the "whole engine"/ecu/wiring harness and be fine(maybe needing to source a couple of parts) ?
I have a JDM Ver8 Twinscroll motor mated with my RS transmission in my '01 2.5RS. Yaz has a Ver7 w/ a Ver8 Twinscroll setup.

Why a Ver7 with a Ver8 turbo setup and not a Ver8 completely? After the forged pistons? The Ver8 motors are supposed to have better heads than the normal Ver7s (the Ver7 Spec C/RA are a different story - I dunno if it's only the Spec C/RA that have forged pistons? Probably...)

There's a quite a few companies that sell and can get the motors you want. There isn't much reason to get a front clip as most of the Subaru vendors sell very complete setups. I've had good experiences with IAP - but they normally sell the JDM swaps to WRX owners so you need to see if they have a chassis harness.

Basically you need: the engine (complete - IC, turbo, manifolds, engine harness etc) turbo crossmember (Turbo legacy/GC is better but GD will work with washers to shim the control arms), Powersteering resivour and hoses, USDM WRX powersteering lines (supposed to work) or have lines made (the JDM STi don't work) Chassis harness (Bulkhead and front harness), ECU, get the fuel pump controller too while your getting the wiring, MAF sensor, Boost control silenoid and associated vacuum lines, Intake piping and exhaust that'll fit the JDM exhaust (or switch to a USDM style downpipe - doesn't work for VF37/36 twinscroll they have a different flange but you can mod a USDM downpipe to work)

You'd have to ask someone else about what all is needed specifically for the transmission as I just did the motor. Apart from first gear being too short and the obvious weakness over the 6 speed, the JDM motor is fun with the 4.11 RS gearing,

Also note you'll make "better" power on a STi engine (USDM or JDM) over a USDM WRX motor that's modded. And it will be alot more useable on the street, from my experience, atleast. AVCS does wonders. And so does displacement (although atleast the twinscroll Ver8 JDM STi feels very torquey for a 2.0)

-Tim
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Old 04-19-2005, 09:22 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verendia
how hard is it to mkae a ej22t legacy get 300 whp?
It's not that hard to make it 300awhp. You'd need injectors, piggyback OR stand alone ECU, turbo upgrade, fuel pump, tuning, and exhaust system. There are other little things to it too, but these are the major things.

My setup I'm shooting for more HP so that's why I'm having the block built.

A lot fo people always ask about ECU wiring. If they want the relieble route, yes, you will probably have to have it wired in, but if your'e going for more power and such, don't even mess with wiring. Just buy a stand alone and be done with it. That's one reason why I didn't take the ECU harness and ECU when I took the longblock out. I knew what I was shooting for and a standalone is the way to go for me.
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Old 04-19-2005, 11:31 AM   #17
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hmmm
no its not that easy and its expensive
you need just about everything
heads
turbo
injectors
intercooler
EM
will cost more than a ver 7/8 motor
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Old 04-21-2005, 06:37 PM   #18
revel
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Kotir/Yaz- if you guys dont mind me asking. about how much was the whole swap-engine/labor/wiring/tuning/misc. parts? or about how much should i expect to shell out. i personally know very little about engine install/removal. with help i could probably get this part done at home/friends "shop" garage. just trying to get an idea of how much i will be asking the bank for, and how long it could take to pay off.

thanks again for all the responses.
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Old 04-21-2005, 06:46 PM   #19
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I plan on doing a version 7 with r180 rear and a 6 speed over the summer/fall. Dont know if i am gonna do the dccd but im gonna hook up the avcs.
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Old 04-21-2005, 06:51 PM   #20
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There's a Forester XT swap, too..............

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Old 04-22-2005, 03:26 AM   #21
revel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siper2
There's a Forester XT swap, too..............

i remember hearing something about this. but no real details, just that it could be done.
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Old 04-22-2005, 12:22 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotir
Basically you need: the engine (complete - IC, turbo, manifolds, engine harness etc) turbo crossmember (Turbo legacy/GC is better but GD will work with washers to shim the control arms), Powersteering resivour and hoses, USDM WRX powersteering lines (supposed to work) or have lines made (the JDM STi don't work) Chassis harness (Bulkhead and front harness), ECU, get the fuel pump controller too while your getting the wiring, MAF sensor, Boost control silenoid and associated vacuum lines, Intake piping and exhaust that'll fit the JDM exhaust (or switch to a USDM style downpipe - doesn't work for VF37/36 twinscroll they have a different flange but you can mod a USDM downpipe to work)
1- The GC8 power steering hoses won't fit?

2- There was no fuel pump controller before 2002?

Thanks!
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Old 04-23-2005, 12:22 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norexyet
I plan on doing a version 7 with r180 rear and a 6 speed over the summer/fall. Dont know if i am gonna do the dccd but im gonna hook up the avcs.
*** is the relavance of this post to what is being discussed here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaskar
1- The GC8 power steering hoses won't fit?

2- There was no fuel pump controller before 2002?

Thanks!
1. Yes

2. Yes
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Old 04-23-2005, 12:08 PM   #24
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Where is the fuel pump controller located?
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Old 04-23-2005, 04:31 PM   #25
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right rear inside the trunk between the liner and the body work. held on to the chasis with two nuts that you can see if the liner is removed. it is silver with a heat sink on it. look in the manual
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