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Old 04-23-2005, 12:41 AM   #1
Soulofdarkness
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Default Cobb Accessport and Air Intakes

Ok I'm looking to get the Cobb Accessport very soon (ie. end of month if not sooner). And I got a AEM Short Ram Intake for my '02 WRX. When I E-mailed cobb they said they stoped supporting Accessport with aftermarket intakes. So I was wondering how bad it would be to run accessport with my air intake. Any help would be greatly appreacated.

::Puts on flame suit and jumps in to the oven::
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Old 04-23-2005, 12:50 AM   #2
andrew12
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cobb makes maps for the accessport for the injen cold air intake so... I am confused by them saying they dont support aftermarket intake.


chile
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Old 04-23-2005, 12:53 AM   #3
flyKen74
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just get rid of that aim intake,, either AP or not,,it isn't the thing for Rex,,
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Old 04-23-2005, 12:56 AM   #4
Soulofdarkness
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Yeah it confused me too. Because on there website they contradict themselves about the intakes, then all I ask is if they would change the diameter of the area around the MAF and this was there response...

"Adam,




I am sorry we don't supply mapping for aftermarket intakes any more. Their inconsistency makes it difficult to provide an off the shelf solution for them.


Cheers,
Justin
COBB Tuning"

So... Yeah... Any ideas?
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Old 04-23-2005, 01:55 AM   #5
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I believe the reason they have the map for the injen cold air is because they had a car on the dyno a while back that had that intake and played around with it for a while and were able to get a decent tune out of it w/o the usual discrepencies that you get when trying to tune with an aftermarket intake. It would be a waste of their time and money for them to buy an intake system from every manufacturer out there and have to spend hours upon hours of dyno time to try and tune for each particular brand intake. I had an aem cai on my 03 wrx with cobb stg 2 setup and well, lets just say that was a very bad idea. Point being, put the stock intake back on or don't run an ap. The aftermarket intakes cause nothing but problems when trying to tune our cars. At least that's what I've been told by cobb and vishnu.
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Old 04-23-2005, 02:55 PM   #6
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Take a look at Unabomber's intake FAQ. The stock intake is actually pretty good. Cobb has a very short list of maps for alternative intakes. Other off the shelf tuners have zero support for any non-stock intakes (e.g., Vishnu). The issue is, they don't add any power until you get substantially beyond stock, and they can distort MAF readings, which can lead to blown engines, etc.
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Old 04-23-2005, 03:10 PM   #7
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I asked them about having a typhoon intake on my STI and they said they dont reccommend using AP with intake, but if you want to put your car on their dyno then they will tune it.
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Old 04-23-2005, 04:13 PM   #8
Soulofdarkness
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Hmmm... Where are the located and how much would it cost to get it tuned. If any one knows that is...
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Old 04-23-2005, 05:03 PM   #9
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get rid of it, had one with the AP and it screwed all kinds of things up , stock box with the delete is the way to make Cobb happy, you'll lose that cool sound for the most part , but you wont idle like crap and throw lean codes p0171 etc.
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Old 04-24-2005, 03:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STI_VT
I asked them about having a typhoon intake on my STI and they said they dont reccommend using AP with intake, but if you want to put your car on their dyno then they will tune it.
i talked to cobb about typhoon when typhoon first came out and they said they'd just dyno'd an sti with one and it did "ok". since then, they've been telling people not to use it.

i've had a typhoon for nearly 17,000 miles with both ap stage 1&2 93. it has never burped once and the increase in hp at the upper end is obvious. dataloging has shown that it is (quoting nhluhr) "the perfect emulation of the stock box." it is one of the best first mods you can do imo.

i'm a big fan of cobb but they have been totally transparent in their obnoxious efforts to discourage sti owners from buying typhoon for no other reason but to hold them off until they release their own intake.

Last edited by MeetMrGlock; 04-26-2005 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 04-24-2005, 04:22 PM   #11
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There are intakes that will work without retuning, but you need to have the tools necessary to make sure it isn't hurting your car. Eg, OBDII, EGT, AFR and knock sensors. Cobb is saying that because there are a lot of half ass intakes on the market that will seriously mess with your tune. They're not going to recommend ANY intake that they haven't EXTENSIVELY tested on their own dyno across a broad range of cars, conditions, and variables.
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Old 04-24-2005, 04:35 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hondaeater69
Cobb is saying that because there are a lot of half ass intakes on the market that will seriously mess with your tune.
some will.
typhoon won't.
cobb knows it.
(if they don't they should.)
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Old 04-24-2005, 05:12 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeetMrGlock
some will.
typhoon won't.
cobb knows it.
(if they don't they should.)
If it doesn't mess with the tune, they why bother with it?

I've seen very high injector duty cycles with the stage 2 map for a wrx. Using a larger intake could push these even higher. That wouldn't be a good thing.

Mike
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Old 04-25-2005, 10:15 AM   #14
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Intakes are a waste of money on mildly modified cars. There is no need to replace the stock box. Drop in a Perrin or K&N filter and be done. The stock box can support 300WHP, worry about replacing it after you hit that number.
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Old 04-25-2005, 10:29 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rexorama
Intakes are a waste of money on mildly modified cars. There is no need to replace the stock box. Drop in a Perrin or K&N filter and be done. The stock box can support 300WHP, worry about replacing it after you hit that number.
Not trying to sound mean here, but seriously people open your eyes. There are new intakes coming out for our cars that are not causing problems and are giving true and safe HP gains. Just because intakes of the past were not necessarily good does not mean intakes of the present and future are the same way. It is the way if evolution.

I have heard of many STi and some wrx owners running stage 2 AP's and the Typhoon intake and have had no problems. SOme have even dynoed an additional 12 whp using that intake with the stage 2 AP and no negative effects on IDC or A/F ratios.
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Old 04-25-2005, 11:14 AM   #16
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Quote:
Just because intakes of the past were not necessarily good does not mean intakes of the present and future are the same way
it dosn't mean that they are any better either

the intakes the don't cause the proublme "shorty" suck hot air from inside the engine bay - yay just what you need

there is only 1 reason to have an intake .. a FMIC after which you need a tune any way
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Old 04-25-2005, 12:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxx
it dosn't mean that they are any better either

the intakes the don't cause the proublme "shorty" suck hot air from inside the engine bay - yay just what you need

there is only 1 reason to have an intake .. a FMIC after which you need a tune any way
Again, the old school of thought that does not want to accept the possibility of change.
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Old 04-25-2005, 05:28 PM   #18
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Its not that there isnt a possibility of change, or that certian intakes could possibly provide gains. The point is that some of the most respected and popular tuners often say not to use them. They would probably know more than someone who throws an intake on their own car and decides its fine because their particular car hasnt had any problems.

I don't have an opinion one way or the other personally. I just think that the major benefit to an intake is that they lean out the fuel mixture on stock cars. That will give you a HP increase and will still remain safe because you are dealing with a stock car that has fuel safety built in. If you use an accessport or UTEC or what have you, you are leaning the car out electronically. The intake now A) Is pretty much made obsolete because all it does is duplicate what the AP/Utec/Hydra/Ecutek is doing and B) Possibly can cause problems because now the engine management has taken the safety margin of fueling out.

Bottom line is that many of them are a bitch to tune for because if they throw the MAF off even a tiny bit, the A/F will be wrong.

two cents

Rob
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Old 04-25-2005, 05:37 PM   #19
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Agreed, but there are some new intakes that do more than just "play" with the MAF signal and through their desiogn are creating power by more efficiently allowing air to enter the engine. There are many intakes out there that are not safe for the cars which is where most of the bad reputation of intakes originates. WHat you say about tuning and intakes also makes sense, however given the general level to which Cobb tunes the AP maps there is the possibility that for many people an intake that creates gains based on efficiency of design would work well with their AP setup and not cause any damage.

Tony

This could probably be debated for quite some time.
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Old 04-25-2005, 07:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subieworx
Agreed, but there are some new intakes that do more than just "play" with the MAF signal and through their desiogn are creating power by more efficiently allowing air to enter the engine. There are many intakes out there that are not safe for the cars which is where most of the bad reputation of intakes originates. WHat you say about tuning and intakes also makes sense, however given the general level to which Cobb tunes the AP maps there is the possibility that for many people an intake that creates gains based on efficiency of design would work well with their AP setup and not cause any damage.

Tony

This could probably be debated for quite some time.
Assuming what you say is %100 accurate (which I doubt personally, but...) how do you decide which ones work and which don't without spending thousands in dyno time? Then how do you tell customers without confusing them, or pissing off vendors who you have not yet tested? Then, once we get past all that, how much additional performance are you getting over stock for all of that money spent?
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Old 04-25-2005, 09:17 PM   #21
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It has nothing to do with old school not wanting to change, it has to do with the stock box flows fine and provides air for at least 360-370 CHP, so why waste $120 plus on something that only gives you 5 hp IF you can tune for it. Regardless of if your car does not throw a CEL, it does not mean you have made power. Great, you can flow more air to the engine, but without retuning, cams, increased boost pressure, larger displacement, or larger turbo just what exactly do you think is going "suck" more air in? If the stock stuff isn't a restriction, you haven't accomplished anything.
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Old 04-25-2005, 09:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bofh
Assuming what you say is %100 accurate (which I doubt personally, but...) how do you decide which ones work and which don't without spending thousands in dyno time? Then how do you tell customers without confusing them, or pissing off vendors who you have not yet tested? Then, once we get past all that, how much additional performance are you getting over stock for all of that money spent?
How did "others" decide that the intakes currently on the market we not good? They spent lots dyno time figuring it out.

What really interests me though is why everyone is so close minded about it. I'm going to stop trying to figure it out. In a year if it is more of a respected practice we'll revisit this discussion.
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Old 04-25-2005, 10:02 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rexorama
It has nothing to do with old school not wanting to change, it has to do with the stock box flows fine and provides air for at least 360-370 CHP, so why waste $120 plus on something that only gives you 5 hp IF you can tune for it. Regardless of if your car does not throw a CEL, it does not mean you have made power. Great, you can flow more air to the engine, but without retuning, cams, increased boost pressure, larger displacement, or larger turbo just what exactly do you think is going "suck" more air in? If the stock stuff isn't a restriction, you haven't accomplished anything.
Because it (K&N Typhoon on an STi) adds 13hp peak at the wheels, and from 5hp to 10 everywhere else starting @ ~4250RPMs, with the same pig rich AFRs (low 10s) as stock and cobb stage 1 , W/O any tuning/learning on a mustang dyno.
So yes, the stock box is restrictive. Not totally a choke point - but the intake is worth a 5% increase at the wheels at Cobb stage 1 levels. Hardly worthless.
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Old 04-25-2005, 10:25 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seattle944t
Because it (K&N Typhoon on an STi) adds 13hp peak at the wheels, and from 5hp to 10 everywhere else starting @ ~4250RPMs, with the same pig rich AFRs (low 10s) as stock and cobb stage 1 , W/O any tuning/learning on a mustang dyno.
So yes, the stock box is restrictive. Not totally a choke point - but the intake is worth a 5% increase at the wheels at Cobb stage 1 levels. Hardly worthless.
Do you have a dyno sheet to prove this? A dyno sheet from your testing or someone reputable?

This discussion is about an 02WRX, look at the first post, not an STI. There's a bit of a difference between a VF39 and a TD04 and 2.0 liters to 2.5 liters last time I checked. On an 02 WRX, an intake is not worth the $250 plus (for a typhoon since you made that call) when you would be better off spending that dough on a VF34 or the like first. That is the point to what I'm saying, so don't take it out of context and compare an STI to a WRX.
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Old 04-25-2005, 10:30 PM   #25
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so with the regular wrx's running 2.5 w/ a vf30/vf34, will the typhoon add any gains? the sti runs the vf39 and seems to get some extra power from the typhoon. why the difference?
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