Burning out the stock WRX EGT sensor

buzz313th · 04-23-2005, 08:53 PM

I am using Street Tuner, the LM1 and Delta Dash to log and tune my 05 WRX.

I like the idea of being able to log egts with the stock sensor and DD.

I have a Cobb TBE and Upipe w/ EGT bung.

I am burning out a Stock EGT sensor every month.

My egt's are not high.... to my understanding... the reason the stock egts sensor burns out with catless upipes, is because the sensor is seeing a quicker transistion from high egts to low egts since the cat isn't there to smooth the transitions out.

Does anyone have a genius solution on how to keep from burning out the stock egt sensor with catless aftermarket upipes.

Until I find a solution I will keep replacing the egt sensors.

I guess the last option I have is to install an egt gauge and try to calibrate the LM1 aux input with DD to be able to log egts...

Any help would be appreciated.

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BIG GUN · 04-24-2005, 04:51 PM

Just do the 1/2 watt, 2.2k resistor mod, and be done with it. And you can plug the bung with an M12 x 1.25 bolt, w/ a lock washer.
The only reason the EGT probe is there, is to let you know if the up-pipe cat gets to hot.

hondaeater69 · 04-24-2005, 04:57 PM

You're not melting the actual probe are you? It doesn't make any sense that the sensor can't handle swings in EGT's. Whether the cat is there or not, the sensor sees dramatic swings in EGT's. The precat is mostly for startup emissions.

Maybe a short in your system?

gmanwrx · 04-24-2005, 05:35 PM

i'm having the same problem with u-tec also...

crazymikie · 04-24-2005, 07:34 PM

Jeff-

I'm curious about this. I plan on putting on a catless uppipe soon and want to keep my EGT gauge for logging purposes.

I can't see why not having a cat in there would burn up sensors.

Mike

Uncle Scotty · 04-24-2005, 07:42 PM

The stock EGT is a thremistor type and is 100% junk.....and is only used to monitor the UP cat temp......it is NOT a thermocouple type probe

BlackedOutRex · 04-24-2005, 08:46 PM

Same problem with HKS up-pipe. Could try a spacer to expose less of the probe, about a 1/4 inch or so. Not sure how it affects readings but my sensors would last 25 to 50% longer. Finally I said tah hell with it and pluged in a resistor.

buzz313th · 04-24-2005, 09:48 PM

The stock sensor uses a filiment in the middle. Without a cat the sensor heats up and cools off faster. It's the quick cooling that kills the stock sensor. Since the cat isn't there to keep it the temp up.

No it is not melting...

There is no short in my system.

Almost everyone who gets rid of there pre cat, will kill the stock sensor. It happens real fast.

Like I said in my original post... I want to keep using that location and sensor so I can continue to log egts with DD.. Not only that, but the OL/CL system uses the egt sensor for some calculations in the 04/05 WRX.

I guess I will just keep buying sensors, or taking the sensor out when I'm not logging.

Uncle Scotty · 04-25-2005, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzz313th

The stock sensor uses a filiment in the middle. Without a cat the sensor heats up and cools off faster. It's the quick cooling that kills the stock sensor. Since the cat isn't there to keep it the temp up.

No it is not melting...

There is no short in my system.

Almost everyone who gets rid of there pre cat, will kill the stock sensor. It happens real fast.

Like I said in my original post... I want to keep using that location and sensor so I can continue to log egts with DD.. Not only that, but the OL/CL system uses the egt sensor for some calculations in the 04/05 WRX.

I guess I will just keep buying sensors, or taking the sensor out when I'm not logging.

...source of this information....link??????

rexorama · 04-25-2005, 09:47 AM

Your best bet is to plug the bung for the stock sensor and get the stuff needed to read EGT with the LM1. I thought it would be nice to read EGT just like you have, but I had the same problem.

SooobieSnack · 04-25-2005, 09:56 AM

Also, from what I've been told, the sensor must go back into the uppipe at the same angle that it was in the stock pipe. Hot gas flow over the wrong part of the sensor will cause the it to fail. Just what I was told, no proof here.

buzz313th · 04-25-2005, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty

...source of this information....link??????

Talked to Bill at ISpeed and he assumes that this is the problem. Plus the only difference in egt logs with the stock upipe (w/ cat) and the AM upipe without cat, is quicker changes in egts, lower egts, lower idle temps down to 689F which is lowest tem the sensor reports.

buzz313th · 04-25-2005, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexorama

Your best bet is to plug the bung for the stock sensor and get the stuff needed to read EGT with the LM1. I thought it would be nice to read EGT just like you have, but I had the same problem.

Well I just bought 2 more sensors for 25 a piece. I will actually put the sensor in for logging and then remove it and plug it for autocross.

buzz313th · 04-25-2005, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SooobieSnack

Also, from what I've been told, the sensor must go back into the uppipe at the same angle that it was in the stock pipe. Hot gas flow over the wrong part of the sensor will cause the it to fail. Just what I was told, no proof here.

I think you may be on to the cause of this problem. I have the cobb Incanel upipe and I think the angle is slightly different. I will try rotating this instalation 180 degrees and see if it lasts longer than the last one...

rexorama · 04-25-2005, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzz313th

I think you may be on to the cause of this problem. I have the cobb Incanel upipe and I think the angle is slightly different. I will try rotating this instalation 180 degrees and see if it lasts longer than the last one...

I burned mine out in a TXS Cast up pipe, I didn't look at the position close enough to see how far off it was, if any.

Uncle Scotty · 04-25-2005, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzz313th

Talked to Bill at ISpeed and he assumes that this is the problem. Plus the only difference in egt logs with the stock upipe (w/ cat) and the AM upipe without cat, is quicker changes in egts, lower egts, lower idle temps down to 689F which is lowest tem the sensor reports.

....you didn't answer the question....

buzz313th · 04-25-2005, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty

....you didn't answer the question....

Repeat the question.

Jaxx · 04-26-2005, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Not only that, but the OL/CL system uses the egt sensor for some calculations in the 04/05 WRX

where did you get this info

its also the first that i have heard about it

buzz313th · 04-26-2005, 12:28 PM

Ohh.. sorry missed that...

With Street Tuner you can force the ECU to switch to Open loop once the egt's rise to a certain point... then set the Egt for the car to go back to CL... Here is what I am talkin about.

As you can see... When egt's hit 1640 the car will switch to OL no matter what.... below 1600 it will switch to CL... This is more or less a safety feature to allow the car to run OL (Rich mixtures) if the car is too hot durring CL... But I have a feeling this same feature can be used to force the car into OL sooner for specific tuning applications....

BIG GUN · 04-26-2005, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzz313th

Ohh.. sorry missed that...

With Street Tuner you can force the ECU to switch to Open loop once the egt's rise to a certain point... then set the Egt for the car to go back to CL... Here is what I am talkin about.

As you can see... When egt's hit 1640 the car will switch to OL no matter what.... below 1600 it will switch to CL... This is more or less a safety feature to allow the car to run OL (Rich mixtures) if the car is too hot durring CL... But I have a feeling this same feature can be used to force the car into OL sooner for specific tuning applications....

I would be in a panic about meltdown if I saw those temps!
Anything above 1500 or so is reason for concern.

buzz313th · 04-26-2005, 06:31 PM

So would I.... beleive it or not the stock values are around 1900F

But my point of the screenshot was just to answer the question...

You could enter values such as 1200F and you could be open loop after 1200 F...

Jus Blaze · 08-12-2008, 10:44 PM

Ok so I did this mod but Im not sure if I bought the right resistor. The item number from radio shack is 271-007 and the name of the product is " 2.2-kohm 1/8-watt carbon-film resistors". The reason why I think its the wrong ones is because after installation, I had hesiation in throttle response and at start up, my rpms barely jumped. I quickly took out the resistor and replaced it with the egt plug. I hope i didnt cause any damage. Can someone shed some light one which resistors im suppose to use?

Gethin · 08-13-2008, 05:15 PM

should be 1/2 watt and not 1/8 watt.

should not affect your car in that manner though.

worst that can happen short term is that the resistor might get hot and melt.

Get a 1/2 watt one instead and reset your ecu.

eminehart · 08-13-2008, 10:41 PM

The catless uppipe shouldn't have anything to do with the egt sensor's life.
JDM and other WRX's have no cat and neither do STI's.

Jaxx · 08-17-2008, 12:29 PM

yeah but it does ...

either that or the acids on your fingers kill the TC

04-23-2005, 08:53 PM	#1
buzz313th Scooby Newbie Member#: 37008 Join Date: May 2003 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Los Angeles Vehicle: 2005 WRX Sedan (STX) Crystal Grey -TeamBrew-	Burning out the stock WRX EGT sensor I am using Street Tuner, the LM1 and Delta Dash to log and tune my 05 WRX. I like the idea of being able to log egts with the stock sensor and DD. I have a Cobb TBE and Upipe w/ EGT bung. I am burning out a Stock EGT sensor every month. My egt's are not high.... to my understanding... the reason the stock egts sensor burns out with catless upipes, is because the sensor is seeing a quicker transistion from high egts to low egts since the cat isn't there to smooth the transitions out. Does anyone have a genius solution on how to keep from burning out the stock egt sensor with catless aftermarket upipes. Until I find a solution I will keep replacing the egt sensors. I guess the last option I have is to install an egt gauge and try to calibrate the LM1 aux input with DD to be able to log egts... Any help would be appreciated. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

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04-24-2005, 04:51 PM	#2
BIG GUN Scooby Newbie Member#: 49825 Join Date: Dec 2003 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: WESTFORD MA. Vehicle: 2002 WRX WAGON SILVER	Just do the 1/2 watt, 2.2k resistor mod, and be done with it. And you can plug the bung with an M12 x 1.25 bolt, w/ a lock washer. The only reason the EGT probe is there, is to let you know if the up-pipe cat gets to hot.

04-24-2005, 04:57 PM	#3
hondaeater69 Scooby Guru Member#: 60324 Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: a pillow.	You're not melting the actual probe are you? It doesn't make any sense that the sensor can't handle swings in EGT's. Whether the cat is there or not, the sensor sees dramatic swings in EGT's. The precat is mostly for startup emissions. Maybe a short in your system?

04-24-2005, 05:35 PM	#4
gmanwrx Scooby Specialist Member#: 53871 Join Date: Jan 2004 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: northern nj Vehicle: 95 s14 240sx ruby red	i'm having the same problem with u-tec also...

04-24-2005, 07:34 PM	#5
crazymikie Scooby Specialist Member#: 56321 Join Date: Mar 2004 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Framingham, MA Vehicle: 2008 Lexus IS-F	Jeff- I'm curious about this. I plan on putting on a catless uppipe soon and want to keep my EGT gauge for logging purposes. I can't see why not having a cat in there would burn up sensors. Mike

04-24-2005, 07:42 PM	#6
Uncle Scotty NASIOC Supporter Member#: 16200 Join Date: Mar 2002 Vehicle: OK Houston we have an Uncle	The stock EGT is a thremistor type and is 100% junk.....and is only used to monitor the UP cat temp......it is NOT a thermocouple type probe

04-24-2005, 08:46 PM	#7
BlackedOutRex Scooby Newbie Member#: 36172 Join Date: May 2003 Vehicle: 2002 WRX Sedan Midnight Black	Same problem with HKS up-pipe. Could try a spacer to expose less of the probe, about a 1/4 inch or so. Not sure how it affects readings but my sensors would last 25 to 50% longer. Finally I said tah hell with it and pluged in a resistor.

04-24-2005, 09:48 PM	#8
buzz313th Scooby Newbie Member#: 37008 Join Date: May 2003 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Los Angeles Vehicle: 2005 WRX Sedan (STX) Crystal Grey -TeamBrew-	The stock sensor uses a filiment in the middle. Without a cat the sensor heats up and cools off faster. It's the quick cooling that kills the stock sensor. Since the cat isn't there to keep it the temp up. No it is not melting... There is no short in my system. Almost everyone who gets rid of there pre cat, will kill the stock sensor. It happens real fast. Like I said in my original post... I want to keep using that location and sensor so I can continue to log egts with DD.. Not only that, but the OL/CL system uses the egt sensor for some calculations in the 04/05 WRX. I guess I will just keep buying sensors, or taking the sensor out when I'm not logging.

04-25-2005, 09:47 AM	#10
rexorama Scooby Specialist Member#: 25912 Join Date: Oct 2002 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: IDSUBARUCLUB.COM Vehicle: 02 PSM Wagon 02 WRB Sedan	Your best bet is to plug the bung for the stock sensor and get the stuff needed to read EGT with the LM1. I thought it would be nice to read EGT just like you have, but I had the same problem.

04-25-2005, 09:56 AM	#11
SooobieSnack Scooby Newbie Member#: 44380 Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: USA	Also, from what I've been told, the sensor must go back into the uppipe at the same angle that it was in the stock pipe. Hot gas flow over the wrong part of the sensor will cause the it to fail. Just what I was told, no proof here.

04-26-2005, 12:28 PM	#19
buzz313th Scooby Newbie Member#: 37008 Join Date: May 2003 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Los Angeles Vehicle: 2005 WRX Sedan (STX) Crystal Grey -TeamBrew-	Ohh.. sorry missed that... With Street Tuner you can force the ECU to switch to Open loop once the egt's rise to a certain point... then set the Egt for the car to go back to CL... Here is what I am talkin about. As you can see... When egt's hit 1640 the car will switch to OL no matter what.... below 1600 it will switch to CL... This is more or less a safety feature to allow the car to run OL (Rich mixtures) if the car is too hot durring CL... But I have a feeling this same feature can be used to force the car into OL sooner for specific tuning applications....

04-26-2005, 06:31 PM	#21
buzz313th Scooby Newbie Member#: 37008 Join Date: May 2003 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Los Angeles Vehicle: 2005 WRX Sedan (STX) Crystal Grey -TeamBrew-	So would I.... beleive it or not the stock values are around 1900F But my point of the screenshot was just to answer the question... You could enter values such as 1200F and you could be open loop after 1200 F...

08-12-2008, 10:44 PM	#22
Jus Blaze Scooby Specialist Member#: 129428 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brooklyn, NY Vehicle: 2002 Wrx	Ok so I did this mod but Im not sure if I bought the right resistor. The item number from radio shack is 271-007 and the name of the product is " 2.2-kohm 1/8-watt carbon-film resistors". The reason why I think its the wrong ones is because after installation, I had hesiation in throttle response and at start up, my rpms barely jumped. I quickly took out the resistor and replaced it with the egt plug. I hope i didnt cause any damage. Can someone shed some light one which resistors im suppose to use?

08-13-2008, 05:15 PM	#23
Gethin Scooby Specialist Member#: 2998 Join Date: Nov 2000 Chapter/Region: VIC Location: BC Vehicle: 2002 WRX WRB	should be 1/2 watt and not 1/8 watt. should not affect your car in that manner though. worst that can happen short term is that the resistor might get hot and melt. Get a 1/2 watt one instead and reset your ecu.

08-13-2008, 10:41 PM	#24
eminehart Scooby Newbie Member#: 11205 Join Date: Oct 2001 Chapter/Region: RMIC Location: Tweakin your ECU-Northglenn CO Vehicle: 2009 WRX Dom3-e85-ewg	The catless uppipe shouldn't have anything to do with the egt sensor's life. JDM and other WRX's have no cat and neither do STI's.

08-17-2008, 12:29 PM	#25
Jaxx NASIOC Supporter Member#: 177 Join Date: Aug 1999 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Boise,Idaho,USA Vehicle: The 93 Imp W/EJ20K flat black	yeah but it does ... either that or the acids on your fingers kill the TC