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Old 07-26-2001, 10:47 PM   #1
SubaFastR
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Arrow Tec 2 install difficulty?

How hard is it to install the Tec 2? What is involved?
Kevin
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Old 07-26-2001, 11:08 PM   #2
MikeyG
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Well here is the FAQ incae you didn't find out where it was yet.

Now I haven't installed a TEC II system but it seems that you will need to splice into the factory system in a few places and you will also get a whole bunch of new sensors to replace the factory ones. ( I hear the O2 sensor is rather hard to get at as a heatshield gets in that way.)

Actually the install isn't the hard part at all, it is the tuning that is. So you have a great bunch of people over at www.vishnuperformance.com to help with that.

MikeyG
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Old 07-26-2001, 11:13 PM   #3
kastle
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Kevin, message Kartboy. He can help you install and tune it.... He told me that a person should be able to do it in less than a day
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Old 07-27-2001, 10:28 AM   #4
RyanC
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If you aren't a mechanical moron it's not that hard. Of course, having proper tools is key to any successful endeavour but if you do, Shivs instructions are pretty good and you can figure it out.
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Old 07-27-2001, 11:52 AM   #5
mrbell
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Yes, proper tools are essential. and if you've got a MY00 or 01(I think) you'll need some O-rings for the injectors. It took me about a week to get it all in, but I was only working in the evenings and I was making sure that my car would still run properly the whole time. I took it in stages as it is my only car. I was w/o car only one day, and that was because I didn't have all the o-rings for the injectors. 2 tools you'll need that I didn't have were a 22mm socket(an impact socket would probably work best, as they seem to be the tightest fitting) for the crank pully. And this one is a PAIN IN THE A$$, so good luck. You'll also need a 22mm open end wrench for the O2 sensor. you can't get a socket on it because of the wires. It has to be the right length too. Too short and you'll never get the sensor loose, but too long and you'll never get clearance to put get it on the sensor. Other than that, it was surprisingly simple.
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Old 07-27-2001, 03:41 PM   #6
DaveK
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I'm planning on doing it a week from sunday so I'll report back...I've been studying the instruction manual so hopefully there won't be any big surprises.
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Old 07-27-2001, 03:59 PM   #7
wop
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Default Re: Tec 2 install difficulty?

Quote:
Originally posted by SubaFastR
How hard is it to install the Tec 2? What is involved?
Kevin
I thought you were going wolf 3D? are you changing up on me now?

-wop
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Old 07-27-2001, 06:14 PM   #8
SubaFastR
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All depends on what happens with Dan's car.
Kevin
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Old 07-27-2001, 06:31 PM   #9
wop
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Quote:
Originally posted by SubaFastR
All depends on what happens with Dan's car.
Kevin
jesus christ... does this mean I have to get a motec system?

-wop
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Old 07-27-2001, 06:35 PM   #10
SubaFastR
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What, are you trying to one up me? It's futile, don't forget the 180 HP of nitrous available to me.
kev
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Old 07-27-2001, 06:45 PM   #11
wop
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Quote:
Originally posted by SubaFastR
What, are you trying to one up me? It's futile, don't forget the 180 HP of nitrous available to me.
kev
who says I didn't get NOS and pistons? my philosophy... it's not about money it is about priorities... and right now the pockets are deep and the car is the priority... one call to our friends at U.P.R.D. and things could get very interesting...

Quote:
Originally posted by SubaFastR
What, are you trying to one up me?
kev
NO! I just like giving you a hard time bro. I was just razzing ya !!!

-wop

p.s. nothing is "futile" .

Last edited by wop; 07-27-2001 at 06:48 PM.
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Old 07-27-2001, 08:04 PM   #12
SubaFastR
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So, has anyone's motor detinated (or just mechanically failed) while using a properly tuned Tec 2? Shiv, how far have you taken your stock internals?
Kevin
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Old 07-27-2001, 08:11 PM   #13
tom@kartboy
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well i'm at 10 pounds with a screamin fast car
i have no problems with dett. but you have to tune it that way.

if you remember a while back shiv went to try adn blow the car up. well he kept trying but the injectors maxed out and that was all she wrote. that tells me ALOT when you can hold the thing WFO and it will just kind of peeter out and not BANG like others have done.
my2c
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Old 07-27-2001, 08:26 PM   #14
Kevin Thomas
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Default Detonation!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by SubaFastR
So, has anyone's motor detinated (or just mechanically failed) while using a properly tuned Tec 2? Shiv, how far have you taken your stock internals?
Kevin
Try asking AdamRS in New York. His motor went kaboom over 16psi. He should be able to explain to you the details. His car is back together and sold though but still.
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Old 07-27-2001, 08:37 PM   #15
SubaFastR
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I don't think Adam was using the Tec 2 at the time
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Old 07-27-2001, 10:06 PM   #16
shiv
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Correct. Adam was not running a TEC-II.

Shiv
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Old 07-28-2001, 04:37 PM   #17
shiv
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Quote:
Originally posted by SubaFastR
So, has anyone's motor detinated (or just mechanically failed) while using a properly tuned Tec 2? Shiv, how far have you taken your stock internals?
Kevin
I only know of one customer car that has mechanically failed with the use of a TEC-II. It was from running 10psi of boost with a T28 turbo and no intercooler. Charge temps approached 100 deg. C and the car detonated itself during a 5th gear top speed run. No amount of tuning can keep such a system together. Now, that same car safely runs another MY00 motor with an intercooled Minnam turbo kit at 10psi.

There was also one other failure a while back that was caused by running the car without oil (big oil leak) but that can't really be attributed to tuning, boost, hp, or anything else.

That's not to say that there haven't been more TEC-II'd cars that have failed, of course. Last year, I blew up a Miata on the dyno. It wasn't really a surprise as it was making 280rwhp at 14psi on 92 octane pump gas at the time. Figured the cost of another junkyard motor ($500) was worth the learning experience

Back to Subarus. Most of my customers run their cars with a significant safety margin. All run good gas. All have big fuel pumps. All run nice and fat under boost (with low EGTs). All operate with a good 2-3 degree of safety margin against detonation (or at least they tell me ). All the higher boosted folks use upgraded fuel rails. There are also a few protections that I integrate into the TEC-II baseline maps before sending them out. One is a fuel cut that activates in the case of an overboost/wastegate failure. Another is a pretty aggressive intake temp-induce ignition retard that provides additional safety in case of heatsoak. Another is extra conservative fuel and timing maps just above the boost at which the system is designed to operate at. Few other things as well. Most of which most of my customers may not even be aware of

But is that to say that my kits are idiot-proof? Nope. It just says that my customers aren't idiots

My kits are not designed for those who like to see the boost needle go up and up and up. It's designed for those with safety on their mind. And done correctly, it is possible to have both safety and performance. Until we get to the last, say 10% of a systems potential, they are not mutually exclusive.

On 92 octane pump gas, running 9psi of boost, my MY99 2.5RS turbo routinely makes 265-275 wheel hp (as measured on a 2wd Dynojet). On 96 octane, at 13psi of boost, it made 295 wheel hp before the injectors reached their absolute limits. Stock wheel hp, by comparison, is 120-130.

But most customer cars are conservatively tuned, at first, to run 7psi on pump gas. They make a solid 225-235 wheel hp as illustrated by the last East Coast tuning/dyno day. And they do so in a variety of conditions, ranging from day-to-day street us and all-out track days. As time goes by, the customers usually start creeping upward. But none, AFAIK, dare to go above 10psi. Simply not enough fuel injector (and we use 550cc/min injectors!) to support that kind of power safely. Following these guidelines have proven to be effective when it comes to making good power while keeping the motor in one piece. And with nearly 100 TEC-II users out there, even a 5% engine failure rate would suck.

In the end, safety comes first. Especially when dealing with other peoples' cars. That, of course, requires descretion from the customer as well as from me (from the advice I give.) Except Kartboy's, of course He's a nut and just wanted to go stupid fast!

There's really a lot to the engine mangement thing. And I try my best to make sure that all of my customers are on the safe and narrow. And I encourage them to ask as many questions as they can. And I try to answer them as accurately as possible. Because not knowing something is the easiest way to blow a motor. But after some time, they learn it all and only call me when they want stickers or to ask whether I not I shipped out their last order... doh!

Cheers,
shiv
vishnu performance systems

Last edited by shiv; 07-28-2001 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 07-28-2001, 09:20 PM   #18
RS'ted
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Stickers !!! You've got stickers ??? I see where I rate......

Ken M
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