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Old 04-26-2005, 11:02 AM   #1
pictureboy
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Default Cobb Accesport vs MBC question

Hi,

I'm new to the world of Subarus, and so far am having a great time! I have used the search function extensively so no flames please!

I have an 5MT 02 wagon which is totally stock. I searched extensivley for information on manual boost controls and found a definite split opinion on them; everything from 'even putting them near your engine will blow it up' to 'if used intelligently can be fine'. That being said I borrowed a TurboXS HP from a friend and very carefully set max boost to 1 bar. I made sure to watch the boost gauge like a hawk and saw no PTFB happening. I have returned all to stock now until I am ready to install some well balanced mods. I really loved the improved spool and lower rpm power delivery the MBC gave me which leads me to my question. I would love to have that kind of drivability sans the paranoia about grenading my engine. I don't really race my car and only push it hard occasionaly for fun so top end improvements are not that important to me. I really like the idea of the Accessport but was wondering if I would see any drivability improvements with it? I always run 93 octane so would be running the 93 octane stage 1 map. If anyone has any other suggestions for mods that might give me the type of performance improvement I would love to hear them!

Thank you very much!
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Old 04-26-2005, 11:08 AM   #2
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I just flashed Stage 1 93 octane myself and I have to tell you...WOW. Not only WOW, but frikin' WOW! This thing is the bomb if you don't wanna' be a tuner, it's as plug-n-play as they come. 10 minutes = 25 HP, and the power is so buttery smooth they should call it the "Silk Stage" IMO.

MBC's SUCK. Did that come out right? MBC's SUCK! Maybe that one was clearer. If you want more boost without an AP, get an EVC for God sake, please, I beg you, the difference is HUGE, and no worries of boost spike. Of course, for that chunk o' change you could have an AP, and not even worry about it.

Get an AP and flash Stage 1 93 octane, you won't be sorry, just dreamin' of Stage 2 all the live-long day.
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Old 04-26-2005, 11:11 AM   #3
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Oh, forgot about the performance suggestions. My advice is to get rid of your cats, buy 1 high-flow (or keep none at all), and the axle-back of your choice.
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Old 04-26-2005, 11:26 AM   #4
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ooooo... I wonder how much I'll get outta of Cobb AP Stage 2 + my turboback (Helix catless and SPT 3" catback) I have both 93 and 94 octane gas to choose from, 93 being the most readily available.
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Old 04-26-2005, 11:37 AM   #5
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seriously i'm getting all giddy like a school girl... I mean feeling tough and powerful about have the AP... ROFL I def was thinking of getting one
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Old 04-26-2005, 12:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip McNealy
ooooo... I wonder how much I'll get outta of Cobb AP Stage 2 + my turboback (Helix catless and SPT 3" catback) I have both 93 and 94 octane gas to choose from, 93 being the most readily available.
54 HP & 49 TQ

Linky .
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Old 04-26-2005, 12:11 PM   #7
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Hmmmm, sounds like you like your Accesport!

I don't necessarily want more boost, just better boost!
I'm lloking for my boost to build quicker and start building at a lower RPM rather than any radical increase in total boost.

Unfortunately, I'm in New York so I don't think removing cats is going to go over very well!
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Old 04-26-2005, 12:16 PM   #8
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I have the Cobb stage 2 and their TBE, car is boosting in the 16s at WOT. Accesport does wonders!!!!
Going to be adding an Injen uppipe, Xover pipe and short ram intake this week to see if i can get the boost to start even sooner.
Cobb is the best!!
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Old 04-26-2005, 12:17 PM   #9
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If you get a full Cobb Stage 2 TBE with high-flow cat you should be fine with the stock cat removal and pass emissions no problem. Did I mention it's rated at the same HP/Torque gain?

Sell your soul, buy it now .
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Old 04-26-2005, 12:27 PM   #10
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People who are totally against the use of a MBC are, for the most part, regurgitating internet propaganda. True on the 04-05's a MBC can lead to bad things, but on the 03-04's you CAN do it safely.

I have a MBC and Vaus's OLM device along with a up pipe and down pipe (Completely catless) with the HKS Carbon TI cat back. I like the set up. I have run several 13.70 passes. Beating many Cobb Stage two cars. I am sure the drivability will be improved with the Cobb over the MBC. However, on your 02 you can run the MBC safely if set responsibly and if you remove your cats. From a price conscience point of view I recommend looking into the OLM and a MBC set around 15psi. I think I have less than $500 in power adders (less the cat back) and I have never had an issue.

If price is not an issue, look into the Accessport or a custom tune.


Good luck.
Shaun
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Old 04-26-2005, 12:40 PM   #11
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On pre 04 cars, if you are on a budget, an MBC is an excellent way to get more power. However, while it is the best value, it is not the best or safest way. To do it right, most people recommend a real tune.
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Old 04-26-2005, 02:45 PM   #12
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What exactly goes wrong with 04's+ with Boost controllers?
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Old 04-26-2005, 03:27 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip McNealy
ooooo... I wonder how much I'll get outta of Cobb AP Stage 2 + my turboback (Helix catless and SPT 3" catback) I have both 93 and 94 octane gas to choose from, 93 being the most readily available.
COBB claims 280HP (224HP at the wheels).
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Old 04-26-2005, 03:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSiam
What exactly goes wrong with 04's+ with Boost controllers?
You dont want to boost without proper management. That is all.
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Old 04-26-2005, 03:30 PM   #15
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Prior to 04' there was no OL/CL fueling ... (Open loop/Closed loop) ... Hence the fact that on prior years an MBC/EBC was acceptable to some ... It simply doesn't work on the newer model years, it's bad, bad, bad for your car ... On an 02' though, it would work, and it's certainly your call, but I'd still rather go the safe route of actual engine management like Cobb's AP, or an EcuTek flash ... It's just safer and more reliable IMO ...











***disclaimer ... This is from various posts I've read in the past ... It in no way condones the use of MBC/EBC's ... ***
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Old 04-26-2005, 03:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imprez25
I have run several 13.70 passes. Beating many Cobb Stage two cars.
You mean Stage 1 cars, right? Cobb underestimates their Stage 1 at a 13.9, many people have run that with a stock WRX, 13.7 isn't even close to a Cobb Stage 2, which can run a 13.1, but is a common 13.4 modification.
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Old 04-26-2005, 03:51 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pictureboy
Hmmmm, sounds like you like your Accesport!

I don't necessarily want more boost, just better boost!
I'm lloking for my boost to build quicker and start building at a lower RPM rather than any radical increase in total boost.

Unfortunately, I'm in New York so I don't think removing cats is going to go over very well!
3/16" mod
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Old 04-26-2005, 03:52 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pictureboy
Hi,

I'm new to the world of Subarus, and so far am having a great time! I have used the search function extensively so no flames please!

I have an 5MT 02 wagon which is totally stock. I searched extensivley for information on manual boost controls and found a definite split opinion on them; everything from 'even putting them near your engine will blow it up' to 'if used intelligently can be fine'. That being said I borrowed a TurboXS HP from a friend and very carefully set max boost to 1 bar. I made sure to watch the boost gauge like a hawk and saw no PTFB happening. I have returned all to stock now until I am ready to install some well balanced mods. I really loved the improved spool and lower rpm power delivery the MBC gave me which leads me to my question. I would love to have that kind of drivability sans the paranoia about grenading my engine. I don't really race my car and only push it hard occasionaly for fun so top end improvements are not that important to me. I really like the idea of the Accessport but was wondering if I would see any drivability improvements with it? I always run 93 octane so would be running the 93 octane stage 1 map. If anyone has any other suggestions for mods that might give me the type of performance improvement I would love to hear them!

Thank you very much!
I'd stick with an AP but make sure you follow all of their mod criteria.
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Old 04-26-2005, 06:40 PM   #19
DarkSideSTI
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i want the stage 2, with perrin catless d/p... k&n tyfoon shortram.. how would that work out?
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Old 04-26-2005, 07:03 PM   #20
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I just ditched my MBC, BoV and intake in favor of an accesport. I couldnt be happier with the results. More power, and the drivability of the car dramatically increased. The AP is great as is Cobb's customer service. I didnt buy it from them, but their tech line has been helpful.
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Old 04-26-2005, 08:49 PM   #21
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i cant go all out like that. I have an EBC (Greddy Profec B II) happy even an Injen CIA and perrin turbo back w/ 1 high flow cat. Love it and im down for gettin the accessport, so I can get the most out of this car!
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Old 04-26-2005, 09:10 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pezman04wrx
Prior to 04' there was no OL/CL fueling ... (Open loop/Closed loop) ... Hence the fact that on prior years an MBC/EBC was acceptable to some ... It simply doesn't work on the newer model years, it's bad, bad, bad for your car ... On an 02' though, it would work, and it's certainly your call, but I'd still rather go the safe route of actual engine management like Cobb's AP, or an EcuTek flash ... It's just safer and more reliable IMO ...

***disclaimer ... This is from various posts I've read in the past ... It in no way condones the use of MBC/EBC's ... ***
This is not true- you can get into trouble with an MBC on an 02/03 as well. On these years, you needed to go to a higher throttle opening before you'd get enriched fueling, however, it would happen immediately. You could still get PTFB with stoich fueling in 02/03 wrxs.

Mike
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Old 04-27-2005, 03:56 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSideSTI
i want the stage 2, with perrin catless d/p... k&n tyfoon shortram.. how would that work out?
Understand first off that this is a pre '04 WRX thread. You have an STi right? Different beast. Different topic. No biggie though. The setup you mentioned is fine for the STi. The TyPHoon (gen II w/ airbox) or APS CAI intakes work on STis better than WRXs. They won't run lean (as measured by a few of us so far)

As far as the whole AP staged thing. The big gain is in the DP. Thats where more rapid boost and more rapid increase in torque is realised (and it feels friggin' great) The AP takes all that and makes it work even better.

On the STI you will have boost creep. Some people luck out and the DP they get works with the wastegate in their turbo... by the grace of the subie gods. I had to port mine. The WRXs don't run into that nearly as often. You might run into references that the creep can be tuned 'out' but it's actually tuned 'around' and is therefore a loss of either power or control (safety), depending on tuning style. Either way, it's better to solve it, and not have it, than to depend on electronics to fix it.

So, darkside, if that is your real name. Get to searchin' for "boost creep", "Gen II Typhoon" references, "APS CAI"s with reference to the STi. Here, & www.wrxforums.com have a lot of info already spelled out in them. www.wrxhackers.com might hit on that too. Even a few reviews can be found in the ghost town called www.subarusti.org
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Old 04-27-2005, 07:40 AM   #24
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2rhless... thanxs i didnt realize it was a 04 wrx thread...and i will look into the sites u listed
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Old 04-27-2005, 11:58 AM   #25
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you will get partial throttle boost ...
get on the free way 4th or 5th gear and press the peddle part way...
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