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Old 04-27-2005, 01:28 PM   #1
wrex03
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Default Utec log. Why so laggy?

Below is a third gear pull with my SBR-10. I need to reduce timing in the 70-80 column as I'm getting knock as evident in the log below every once in a while.

But my question is why is this thing so slow to spool? Far right is a/f. Using AVCR for boost control.


Code:
2015 -10.6 1.7   6  00    00   +25.0    0.3 ECU.   -0.2 ECU.   1.5  12.17
 1524 -10.6 2.2  14  00    00   +29.4    5.4 ECU.   -0.2 ECU.   2.0  12.11
 1622  -8.9 2.3  19  00    00   +13.1   29.0 ECU.   -0.2 ECU.   2.0  12.53
 1635  -6.7 2.3  23  10    00   +21.9    6.5 +32.8  -0.2   1.00 2.1  13.14
 1686  -4.3 2.5  28  10    00   +36.7    7.5 +34.2  -0.3   1.00 2.2  14.18
 1773  -2.0 2.5  31  10    00   +36.3   16.4 +37.0  -0.4   1.00 2.2  15.44
 1849  -1.0 2.5  31  10    00   +36.3    9.0 +37.4  -0.4   1.00 2.2  15.72
 1933  -0.2 2.6  31  10    00   +37.0    9.3 +37.8  -0.4   1.00 2.3  15.24
 2038  +0.2 2.6  31  10    00   +37.8    9.4 +38.4  -0.5   1.00 2.3  14.74
 2078  +0.2 2.6  37  10    00   +38.4   10.1 +39.6  -0.5   1.00 2.4  14.53
 2171  +0.6 2.7  42  10    00   +38.4   10.8 +41.2  -0.5   1.00 2.4  14.37
 2322  +0.8 2.8  56  10    00   +38.2   11.7 +42.3  -0.4  60.40 2.5  13.97
 2420  +1.5 2.8  66  10    00   +38.2   12.4 +42.5  -0.4 118.00 2.6  13.72
 2485  +1.9 2.9  78  20    00   +37.3   13.6 +28.1  -1.5 426.00 2.6  13.53
 2583  +2.5 3.0  78  20    00   +37.5   14.6 +27.6  -1.7 426.00 2.7  13.39
 2696  +3.1 3.1  83  20    00   +36.2   15.9 +27.2  -2.0 500.00 2.7  13.39
 2780  +3.5 3.2  88  20    00   +35.4   18.7 +26.7  -2.3 500.00 2.8  13.53
 2960  +4.1 3.2  95  20    00   +35.4   20.7 +26.2  -2.2 500.00 2.9  13.39
 3080  +4.9 3.3  95  30    00   +36.2   22.3 +21.7  -3.9 240.00 3.0  12.92
 3208  +5.7 3.6  97  30    00   +35.8   25.1 +21.1  -3.6 240.00 3.0  12.61
 3330  +6.8 3.6  97  40    00   +34.3   28.2 +20.1  -4.1 240.00 3.1  12.52
 3576  +8.0 3.8  97  40    00   +33.0   32.9 +21.0  -3.9 240.00 3.3  12.17
 3728  +9.6 3.9  97  50    00   +29.7   37.4 +18.2  -2.9 240.00 3.4  11.93
 3935 +11.7 4.1  97  60    00   +27.9   44.7 +15.0  -2.7 240.00 3.6  11.77
 4040 +13.9 4.3  97  70    00   +25.9   48.2 +15.4  -2.4 240.00 3.6  11.58
 4334 +16.4 4.3  97  80    00   +23.4   52.5 +16.2  -1.9 245.00 3.8  11.56
 4516 +17.6 4.4  97  80    00   +24.0   59.4 +17.0  -1.8 250.00 3.9  11.45
 4655 +18.6 4.5  97  80    00   +25.3   62.1 +17.0  -3.4 255.00 3.9  11.14
 4960 +18.4 4.6  97  80    00   +26.9   65.6 +17.4  -3.5 255.00 3.9  10.90
 5241 +18.4 4.6  97  80    00   +27.9   67.9 +17.8  -3.3 263.00 4.0  10.81
 5350 +18.2 4.6  97  80    00   +28.5   68.8 +18.1  -3.3 266.00 4.0  10.86
 5555 +17.6 4.7  97  70    00   +28.6   70.7 +19.1  -2.7 270.00 4.1  10.89
 5747 +18.0 4.7  97  80    00   +29.5   70.7 +18.5  -3.8 270.00 4.0  10.93
 5878 +18.0 4.7  97  80    01   +32.3   70.3 +10.3  -3.8 277.00 4.0  11.05
 6049 +18.8 4.7  97  80    00   +33.2   72.7 +10.0  -3.9 280.00 4.1  11.20
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Last edited by wrex03; 04-27-2005 at 02:52 PM. Reason: Adding AVCR for boost control.
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:51 PM   #2
2phless
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In settings, where is your gain set? Might want to lower it. Stock is 50, I tend to run 45 but I've played lower an not seen too much spike.

Isn't there a trick to increase EGTs at lower RPM to enhance spoolup? IIRC by retarding low end timing. I haven't tried it so I can't remeber right off. I might be misreading the log and we should certainly wait for a better tuner than I to RE: to this, but isn't the timing at and above 2k a bit too far advanced?
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Old 04-27-2005, 02:27 PM   #3
mbiker97
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The 240s in your boost column aren't helping anything. I agree that you want to ramp boost, but you seem to be killing it.
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Old 04-27-2005, 02:40 PM   #4
feiron
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going off topic a bit, but you need to calibrate your TPS

AFR is pretty lean at low boost (which is good) ... maybe the timing is too high? and your EGT doesnt get hot enough because of that.. but I'd check the boost gain first ..I use 45 on the wrx and its fun
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Old 04-27-2005, 02:41 PM   #5
2phless
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Heh. I didn't even see that.

I find a good solid number for most of the map, something that might hit a stock-ish boost level in a hurry, then start ramping gently to 4500, then ramping super steep to 5500 to fight off the taper. By then and up, everything is 500. I run the ABC closed. I've been tinkering with the lower loads to give the boost a little bump to help me out of auto-x corners and situtaions where I might need soem help getting the rpms back up quicker.

I think opening the ABC will get a little pressure off the wastegate and halp spool some, and I've replaced all the bleedoff hoses that run to the FBC, and vent back out to the turbo inlet.

I was thinking about plugging that inlet nipple and running the FBC bleedoff to something like valve cover breather, using a much shorter hose, or does the turbo inlet hose provide enough vaccum at that point to be benificial for venting wastegate pressure? I would have gone with the Perrin or GM replacement solenoids by now but I keep finding little tricks to get the FBC to do what I need.
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Old 04-27-2005, 02:51 PM   #6
wrex03
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I should have mentioned that I'm using a AVC R for boost.

Timing is high in the ten column to have a smother transition from ecu to utec since my TPS is low (16%).

Not sure why my TPS isn't hitting 100, or greater. It used too, but I had a grounding issue in the past.. I'll check the TPS.

Last edited by wrex03; 04-27-2005 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 04-27-2005, 03:13 PM   #7
2phless
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The AVC-R has the RPM and gear specific adjustments. You have the japanenglish instrucions for it still? I have mine in the box somewhere. I haven't used it in a while, but when I did I had to work to slow the spool a bit to avoid PTFB. Getting it set right is key of course.

It doesn't look like you have the same problem, but the high rpm ramping on my AVC-R actually didn't work as well as the FBC and my boost would drop to below 15, sometimes starting to drop boost by 4500 rpm on a map targeted at 20 psi. But down low, it hammered from the get go. The gear specific stuff was cool. I could get some nice high boost out of first and second. I set it up to read 1-5th gears and then tried adjusting it for 2-6th. Using it mapped for 1-5 I set the gains for 1 and 2 really high and it pulled like a champ, then I hade to back off at 3rd and way down above that to avoid PTFB. 2 through 6 made for better control on the highway, but only by a little bit. I can't remember which settings helped the most there. There is a Supra site and a guys RX-7 site with good AVC-r explanations on them. Google will get you there. If you can't find it I'll dig my booklet out and paraphrase some stuff if you need. It's at work.

Funny that you're setup is giving the opposite problem that mine did. I was also trying to get headers to work well with it though.

What are your other mods? You have a DP? How is the solenoid for the AVCR plumbed specificly?

I've been working towards getting rid of the hesitation. (not terribly actively though.) How are those numbers doing for you in that area? Smooth transitions?
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Old 04-27-2005, 03:20 PM   #8
2phless
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I don't know if TPS being off that little is an issue. I keep mine over. 101- 102ish. I can push the plastic stopper down and get more. Since the boost control is outboard, the maps should still run up to the 100% column (if that psi is where you mapped to.)

Augmenting the grounds under the hood didn't make much difference on my car. I left all the stock grounds intact and added 4 awg to them plus a few extras, and better terminals to the battery. But several mapped voltages increased a bit more recently when I just grounded the metal of the baseplate that the ECU is bolted to, with 1 short 8 awg ground right to the floorboard. TP voltage is one that went up by about 2/10s of a volt according to UTEC logs and LM-1 logs. I thought I felt the car run a hint smoother after doing that too. Probably placebo effect.
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Old 04-27-2005, 04:02 PM   #9
wrex03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2phless
The AVC-R has the RPM and gear specific adjustments. You have the japanenglish instrucions for it still? I have mine in the box somewhere. I haven't used it in a while, but when I did I had to work to slow the spool a bit to avoid PTFB. Getting it set right is key of course.

It doesn't look like you have the same problem, but the high rpm ramping on my AVC-R actually didn't work as well as the FBC and my boost would drop to below 15, sometimes starting to drop boost by 4500 rpm on a map targeted at 20 psi. But down low, it hammered from the get go. The gear specific stuff was cool. I could get some nice high boost out of first and second. I set it up to read 1-5th gears and then tried adjusting it for 2-6th. Using it mapped for 1-5 I set the gains for 1 and 2 really high and it pulled like a champ, then I hade to back off at 3rd and way down above that to avoid PTFB. 2 through 6 made for better control on the highway, but only by a little bit. I can't remember which settings helped the most there. There is a Supra site and a guys RX-7 site with good AVC-r explanations on them. Google will get you there. If you can't find it I'll dig my booklet out and paraphrase some stuff if you need. It's at work.

Funny that you're setup is giving the opposite problem that mine did. I was also trying to get headers to work well with it though.

What are your other mods? You have a DP? How is the solenoid for the AVCR plumbed specificly?

I've been working towards getting rid of the hesitation. (not terribly actively though.) How are those numbers doing for you in that area? Smooth transitions?
My car used to boost a lot faster based upon my memory(don't have logs to prove it) before I changed batteries. I wonder if the gain settings are all zero's instead of numbers like before.

Didn't do the install of the AVCR so, not sure how to answer that.

Yeah I have the upper ranges done fine, and PTFB isn't problem as I get plenty of fuel in those instances.

I run a catless stealth back plus all other goodies through the stock tmic.

I'll check the gain setting and see if that helps.
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Old 04-27-2005, 04:54 PM   #10
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dave- fwiw, i hit 18psi at 4500 and 20 at 4800 in 3rd. its just the gearing.
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Old 04-27-2005, 05:14 PM   #11
happasaiyan
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ps- looks like your grounding issue was also your inflated MAF value issue, as well...or am i wrong? looks back to normalish values.
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Old 04-27-2005, 05:41 PM   #12
wrex03
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You could be right. I also don't get 100% tps anymore since the grounding was fixed. My TPS at idle holds at 0-1 instead of 1-5 now.

I'll fiddle somemore tonight.
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Old 04-27-2005, 07:31 PM   #13
2phless
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrex03
My car used to boost a lot faster based upon my memory(don't have logs to prove it) before I changed batteries. I wonder if the gain settings are all zero's instead of numbers like before.

Didn't do the install of the AVCR so, not sure how to answer that.

Yeah I have the upper ranges done fine, and PTFB isn't problem as I get plenty of fuel in those instances.

I run a catless stealth back plus all other goodies through the stock tmic.

I'll check the gain setting and see if that helps.

I don't think the AVCr will lose memory though. I can't remember now if it had a constant 12v or just a switched. Might as well check that. There is another setting that you could adjust above and below zero but I can't recall what it was called and what it did. I'm no help.
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Old 04-27-2005, 08:29 PM   #14
wrex03
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The gains are still set.... It might have been just wishfull thinking that it was spooling faster in lower gears.

Monday I get one step colder plugs installed and the whole car checked over.

I still have some sort of electrical issue going on, but that will be another thread for another day... I need a beer
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