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Old 04-29-2005, 09:36 AM   #1
xcntrk75
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 60224
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:
2008 FXT Sports 2.5
Dark Grey Metallic

Question Why so rich (UTEC)?

Iím running the default Stage-II MAP on my UTEC and appear to be running extremely rich. From the logs it appears to be running rich throughout the entire boost curve which as a result is making the car run like crap. It actually runs better (AFR) on the stock MAP and has more performance then the Stage-II MAP.

Iím running up/down pipes, 3Ē TBE, TMIC, BOV, and a Perrin intake. Stock turbo, stock injectors, 93 octane.

My question, why in the hell is the Stage-II MAP running so rich and how do I adjust it accordingly?

UTEC (default) Stage-II:
Code:
RPM  TPS  MAP  MLP IGN  AFR  KNOCK
2125 051  -3.4  00 +22.5 15.0 00000 
2198 097  -1.8  10 +21.5 13.2 00000    <-Start 2nd Gear Pull
2295 097  -0.4  10 +20.0 12.7 00000 
2350 097  +1.1  10 +18.5 13.0 00000 
2442 097  +1.9  20 +17.6 12.5 00000 
2568 097  +2.7  20 +17.0 12.4 00000 
2664 097  +3.7  30 +17.0 13.0 00000 
2770 097  +4.7  40 +17.0 rich 00000 
2901 097  +6.2  40 +17.0 rich 00000 
3035 097  +7.8  50 +16.0 rich 00000 
3205 097  +9.6  60 +16.0 rich 00000 
3397 097 +11.3  70 +15.0 rich 00000 
3599 097 +12.7  80 +14.0 rich 00000 
3745 097 +13.7  80 +14.0 rich 00000 
3875 096 +13.9  80 +15.2 rich 00000 
4070 097 +14.3  80 +16.1 rich 00000 
4230 097 +14.1  80 +16.9 rich 00000 
4374 097 +13.9  70 +17.0 rich 00000 
4510 097 +13.5  70 +17.8 rich 00000 
4694 096 +13.1  70 +18.4 rich 00000 
4887 097 +13.1  70 +19.8 rich 00000 
5035 096 +13.5  80 +21.0 rich 00000 
5184 097 +13.1  70 +21.0 rich 00000 
5324 095 +13.5  70 +21.0 rich 00000 
5491 097 +13.7  80 +21.0 rich 00000 
5747 096 +13.1  70 +21.0 rich 00000 
5797 097 +13.3  70 +21.3 rich 00000 
6150 096 +12.7  70 +21.8 rich 00000   <-Stop 2nd Gear Pull
5868 021 +11.5  00 ECU.  rich 00000 
5555 000  +6.2  00 ECU.  rich 00000            shifting
5175 000  +0.2  00 ECU.  23.2 00000            shifting
4219 055  -4.3  10 +20.7 24.2 00000 
4301 097  -5.9  10 +21.0 12.2 00000   <-Start 3rd Gear Pull
4317 097  -1.2  40 +20.0 rich 00000 
4385 097  +5.5  70 +17.0 rich 00000 
4516 096 +10.2  80 +17.2 rich 00000 
4655 096 +12.9  70 +17.8 rich 00000 
4721 097 +14.1  70 +18.2 rich 00000 
4755 096 +13.5  80 +18.8 rich 00000 
4852 097 +13.9  80 +19.6 rich 00000 
4901 097 +14.3  80 +20.0 rich 00000 
5012 096 +14.1  80 +20.6 rich 00000 
5104 096 +13.7  70 +21.0 rich 00000 
5089 096 +13.1  70 +21.0 rich 00000 
5175 096 +12.3  70 +21.0 rich 00000 
5274 097 +12.5  70 +21.0 rich 00000 
5291 097 +12.5  70 +21.0 rich 00000 
5402 096 +12.5  70 +21.0 rich 00000 
5464 096 +12.3  70 +21.0 rich 00000 
5500 096 +12.1  60 +22.0 rich 00000 
5602 097 +12.5  70 +21.0 rich 00000 
5640 097 +12.3  70 +21.0 rich 00000    <-Stop 3rd Gear Pull
5437 020 +12.3  00 ECU.  rich 00000 
5299 000  +7.0  00 ECU.  rich 00000 
4952 000  +1.1  00 ECU.  20.4 00000 
4559 000  -4.9  00 ECU.  lean 00000 
3866 000 -10.0  00 ECU.  24.2 00000 
3912 000 -10.4  00 ECU.  24.2 00000 
3903 000 -10.8  00 ECU.  24.5 00000
Stock MAP:
Code:
1770 010  -2.0  00 ECU.  13.9 00000 
1847 010  -2.0  00 ECU.  13.8 00000 
1915 079  -1.6  10 ECU.  13.9 00000 
2021 098  -0.8  10 ECU.  12.8 00000     <-Start 2nd Gear Pull
2116 098  +0.2  10 ECU.  12.9 00000 
2225 098  +1.3  20 ECU.  12.6 00000 
2340 097  +1.9  20 ECU.  12.8 00000 
2443 097  +2.5  20 ECU.  12.6 00000 
2558 097  +3.1  20 ECU.  12.7 00000 
2681 097  +3.9  30 ECU.  12.6 00000 
2824 097  +4.5  30 ECU.  12.4 00000 
2981 097  +5.7  40 ECU.  rich 00000 
3106 097  +7.4  50 ECU.  rich 00000 
3316 097  +9.8  70 ECU.  rich 00000 
3483 097 +11.9  80 ECU.  rich 00000 
3658 097 +13.7  80 ECU.  rich 00000 
3840 097 +14.7  80 ECU.  rich 00000 
4084 097 +15.1  80 ECU.  rich 00000 
4273 097 +14.9  80 ECU.  rich 00000 
4415 096 +14.3  70 ECU.  rich 00000 
4636 097 +14.3  80 ECU.  rich 00000 
4816 097 +13.7  80 ECU.  rich 00000 
4982 097 +14.1  80 ECU.  rich 00000 
5192 096 +13.9  70 ECU.  rich 00000 
5437 097 +13.7  70 ECU.  rich 00000 
5546 096 +13.5  70 ECU.  rich 00000 
5757 088 +12.5  70 ECU.  rich 00000    <-Stop 2nd Gear Pull
5889 028 +12.5  60 ECU.  rich 00000 
5527 000  +6.8  00 ECU.  13.8 00000   	      shifting
5192 000  +0.8  00 ECU.  lean 00000 	      shifting
4504 027  -4.0  10 ECU.  24.5 00000 
4257 098  -6.5  10 ECU.  23.7 00000   <-Start 3rd Gear Pull
4306 097  -2.4  30 ECU.  rich 00000 
4380 097  +3.3  50 ECU.  rich 00000 
4397 096  +9.0  70 ECU.  rich 00000 
4522 097 +11.5  70 ECU.  rich 00000 
4604 096 +12.9  70 ECU.  rich 00000 
4721 097 +13.1  70 ECU.  rich 00000 
4775 097 +13.3  80 ECU.  rich 00000 
4859 097 +14.3  80 ECU.  rich 00000 
5192 097 +14.7  80 ECU.  rich 00000 
5136 096 +15.1  80 ECU.  rich 00000 
5224 097 +15.7  90 ECU.  rich 00000 
5241 096 +14.9  80 ECU.  rich 00000 
5367 097 +14.7  70 ECU.  rich 00000   <-Stop 3rd Gear Pull
5464 027 +14.1  70 ECU.  rich 00000 
5341 000  +7.8  00 ECU.  rich 00000 
4930 000  +1.9  00 ECU.  lean 00000 
4528 000  -4.3  00 ECU.  lean 00000 
3753 000 -10.0  00 ECU.  24.2 00000 
3699 000 -10.2  00 ECU.  24.2 00000
Anyone with suggestions please chime in...
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Old 04-29-2005, 09:42 AM   #2
MMBOOST
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Vehicle:
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All the basemaps are quite rich. TXS does this on purpose, for safety's sake. Its your job to work them out properly. However, as you can see, with your stock wideband O2 sensor you're not really able to get a good look at the AFRs (it just says "rich"). You're unable to see anything below ~12.0:1. So to be safe you might want to run 11.0:1 or richer AFRs in higher loads, but you'll never be sure that things are safe until you get a more robust wideband O2 sensor.

Also, when you log, its good practice to you Log #1 (hitting the '1' key to log), instead of the smaller log you're using.
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Old 04-29-2005, 09:45 AM   #3
Davenow
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Default

you WANT IT TO SAY RICH. If you see anything other than "rich" in that space when under any kind of decent boost, you are too lean. Its because you dont have a wideband setup, the factory o2 sensor only reads a certain amount up and down, beyond that it will just say "rich"

Suffice it to say, at 8+lbs of boost, if it doesnt say "rich", It is dangerously lean.

You CAN adjust it leaner, but only keep doing it until it JUST starts reading something other than rich, then put a little fuel back at a time until it says rich again.
Really if you want to tune it, you need a wideband, because fuel tuning with the UTEC without a wideband can be done, but it is a DANGEROUS game if you dont know what you are doing 100%.
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Old 04-29-2005, 11:37 AM   #4
MMBOOST
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow
etc...

Suffice it to say, at 8+lbs of boost, if it doesnt say "rich", It is dangerously lean.

You CAN adjust it leaner, but only keep doing it until it JUST starts reading something other than rich, then put a little fuel back at a time until it says rich again.

etc...
Hmmm, thisis terrible advice. You really have no idea what's going on when the UTEC reports "rich". All you know is that your AFRs are 12.0:1 or below. Also, despite having a crappy range, the further the stock WB sensor gets below 14.7:1 the less accurate it is. I woul d not lean out ANYTHING util you have a wideband. Davenow, and myself, have no idea what kind of fuel you are running, or what mechanical issues you might have on your car, etc.

I began tuning the low end before I got my WB and did a bit of tweaking on the high end. When I got my WB finally I found out I was running around 11.8:1 at 17PSI on Cali 91 piss. No wonder I was getting knock now and again :-/ I just kept taking out timing which, of course was just raising EGTs and probabaly making matters worse. I was very lucky that I didn't damage my engine.

Tuning loadsites without being able to see their actual AFR is asking for trouble. An EGT gauge can be helpful, but not very good for eeking out performance... so why bother tuning these days w/o a WB anyhow? If you were tuning in response to a recent log would you tune loadsites that you didn't hit and have no info for?

jason
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Old 04-29-2005, 06:24 PM   #5
AaronWRX
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Wirelessly posted (blackberry: BlackBerry6280/3.7.1 UP.Link/1.1)

I'm with jason. Mucking with fuel without a wideband isn't ideal.

Imo, utec useres have two options,
#1) self-road-tune AFTER getting setup with a boost, egt, and wb02 gauge +lot's of reading and lots of logging sessions with your car

#2) get it dyno tuned.
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