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Old 04-30-2005, 02:06 AM   #1
Call_me_Tom
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Default Autometer w/ WB O2 Sensor?

This post is mostly for a buddy of mine. He purchased a Autometer AFR Guage from here and he also purchased a O2 sensor from here (bottom left hand corner). He said that with those two products he would be able to accurately measure his AFR because that combo would allow the Autometer to read in WB.

I told him that I didn't think that this perticular combo would work for what he was looking for. I directed him to this site here (5th item from the bottom) which I believe is what he will need to convert his Autometer gauge to a true WB reading gauge.

He said that I was full of it and that his combo would work. Hopefully I am full of it because he has already ordered the before mentioned products. But I told him that just the other day I did a search and pulled up a long list of stuff on the Autometer AFR and what it would intail for it to read a WB sensor and his combo wasn't mentioned. Any way I would just like some input and clarification on the matter so I can link this thread to him so that he may read it for himself. If I'm wrong then all the better he has spent his money well if not hopefully he can order something that will recoup his loses.

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Old 04-30-2005, 03:20 AM   #2
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Narrow band sensors have a 1V bandwidth. Wide bands have 5V. This gives WBs not just a wider band but more granularity (mor accurate readings). Most of the cheaper gauges (like Autometer) are 1V, even though some cars now come with true widebands. Imprezas dont, but some VWs do.

have your buddy read this post, and then read this:

http://hp.autometer.com/techtips/faq...ignitions.html
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Old 04-30-2005, 03:21 AM   #3
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Oh.. and Autometer gauges have a buncha pretty lights that got from "rich" to "lean". Thre couldn't be a more useless, bling-bling-rice gauge around.
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Old 04-30-2005, 08:03 AM   #4
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You friend can use his gauge.He will need at a minimum the PLX-300m(sensor inluded) and the "little black convertor box".The 300m has two outputs(1v & 5v).He would just use the 5v,connect it to the "little black convertor box" input and the output from that to his Autometer.It will no longer "bounce" and will produce a correct wideband measurement.I use this setup on my turbocharged S10 where the PLX-300m replaced my factory narrow o2 and i used the 1v output for my ECU signal and the 5v(+black convertor box) for my Autometer signal.I suggest if he has the cash to get the 500m or something that will datalog the AFR's.Personally i would return the gauge and sensor and buy a complete kit.
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Old 04-30-2005, 08:08 AM   #5
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Old 04-30-2005, 10:55 AM   #6
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Thanks everyone for you input. I'll send him the link to this now.

This is all good stuff if anyone else has any input please post.
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Old 04-30-2005, 12:42 PM   #7
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dumdum, let me see if I got this right. You have single sensor with a 1v and 5v output. The 1v goes to the ECU and the 5v goes to a box that down-converts it to 1v to go to a 1v autometer gauge? Doesn't that seem like you took a good thing (5v output) and shot it in the foot? Instead of downgrading a useful 5v signal to an almost useless 1v signal why not get a guage thats actually useful and display 5v breadth and granuality? Had you kept your stock sensor, and just added a read 5v sensor and a 5v meter, you'd be much better off, don't you think?
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Old 04-30-2005, 01:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMBOOST
dumdum, let me see if I got this right. You have single sensor with a 1v and 5v output. The 1v goes to the ECU and the 5v goes to a box that down-converts it to 1v to go to a 1v autometer gauge? Doesn't that seem like you took a good thing (5v output) and shot it in the foot? Instead of downgrading a useful 5v signal to an almost useless 1v signal why not get a guage thats actually useful and display 5v breadth and granuality? Had you kept your stock sensor, and just added a read 5v sensor and a 5v meter, you'd be much better off, don't you think?
The PLX-300m displays the A/F on the control box in a digital format,i just don't have it mounted in line of sight.I had already installed my Autometer gauge before i relized it was just a "blinky light show" If you read the link i posted you will see the Autometer gauge will be just as acurate.The convertor box doesn't just change the signal voltage, it allows the Autometer gauge to display the wideband signal.Belive me i have compared the digital read out on the PLX unit and my gauge and they read the same.I just didn't want to mount the PLX unit on my dash.Plus i paid $300 for everything.Also i did suggest for his friend to return what he bought and buy a complete kit.But for people who like for things to match and are using Autometer gauges,you can have the gauge display an acruate wideband signal.

Last edited by quazimoto; 04-30-2005 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 04-30-2005, 02:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dumdum
The PLX-300m displays the A/F on the control box in a digital format,i just don't have it mounted in line of sight.I had already installed my Autometer gauge before i relized it was just a "blinky light show" If you read the link i posted you will see the Autometer gauge will be just as acurate.The convertor box doesn't just change the signal voltage, it allows the Autometer gauge to display the wideband signal.Belive me i have compared the digital read out on the PLX unit and my gauge and they read the same.I just didn't want to mount the PLX unit on my dash.Plus i paid $300 for everything.Also i did suggest for his friend to return what he bought and buy a complete kit.But for people who like for things to match and are using Autometer gauges,you can have the gauge display an acruate wideband signal.
Oh, so it actually is intepolating 5v over 1v, interesting. More accurate than your run-of-the-mill OEM narrowband sensor, yes, I agree now. Still, though, there is a loss in granularity, but then that' s only important if your logging, I suppose. For AF, I think I never want anything but a digital gauge.
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Old 04-30-2005, 02:44 PM   #10
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You should check out the new PLX RF500.It displays and datalogs EGT,AFR's,and knock all at once!Uses one sensor for the o2 and egt i believe.It uses an LCD display.Pretty tech stuff.
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Old 04-30-2005, 02:45 PM   #11
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You should check out the new PLX R500.It displays and datalogs EGT,AFR's,and knock all at once!Uses one sensor for the o2 and egt i believe.It uses an LCD display.Pretty tech stuff. www.plxdevices.com
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Old 04-30-2005, 10:16 PM   #12
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I've got a UTEC and a Tuner, so I get all that but EGTs. I'd love to get EGTs into the mix. I have an aftermarket EGT gauge.. I wish I could find a way to split the signal and put it into the guage and the Tuner (which can take another V-based like and then you can customize it to a given scale). But if I split it the voltages will be screwy so... If I knew enough electronics I'm sure I could tap in some resisted ACC power - that is, calculate the loss of potential and add in the same amount of voltage from ACC... but then, I have no idea what I'm talking about

sorry for the hijack KrazyK

jason
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Old 04-30-2005, 11:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMBOOST
I've got a UTEC and a Tuner, so I get all that but EGTs. I'd love to get EGTs into the mix. I have an aftermarket EGT gauge.. I wish I could find a way to split the signal and put it into the guage and the Tuner (which can take another V-based like and then you can customize it to a given scale). But if I split it the voltages will be screwy so... If I knew enough electronics I'm sure I could tap in some resisted ACC power - that is, calculate the loss of potential and add in the same amount of voltage from ACC... but then, I have no idea what I'm talking about

sorry for the hijack KrazyK

jason
Hijack away. This is all useful stuff and I'm learning as I read. Well I PM'd this link to my buddy and I've not heard from him yet so I'm not sure what to think. I don't know if he has ordered some thing else, canceled his order, or is calling me an A-Hole under his breath. We're both in the military so we both don't have a ton of money to spend so I'm hoping to save him some cash, and heart ache with this thread.

Another question. If you were to use Delta Dash or Street Tuner (I'm a AccessPORT guy) for your tuning how accurate would the AFR's be sense it gathers it's information through the ECU? I know that the rear O2 sensor is a narrow band and the front is an in between (?) band. How would this effect your readings?
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Old 05-01-2005, 12:22 AM   #14
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I just checked to see if he got my PM and the message is unconfirmed so he still hasn't read any of this yet...I hope that it's not to late...

Keep the information coming gents and ladies.
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Old 05-01-2005, 08:44 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krazyK1371

Another question. If you were to use Delta Dash or Street Tuner (I'm a AccessPORT guy) for your tuning how accurate would the AFR's be sense it gathers it's information through the ECU? I know that the rear O2 sensor is a narrow band and the front is an in between (?) band. How would this effect your readings?
Your engine management will have no effect on how a AFR gauge works because the gauge uses its own sensor and signal.It will always be acurate.Maybe i'm not understanding your question completly.I mean you would tune it using a seperate wideband than what the ECU reads.You tell the ECU how much fuel and use a "true" wideband to make sure thats what its doing regardless of what its sensors are saying.The ECU 02 sensor is pretty acurate,it just doesn't have the "true" range of a wideband.
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Old 05-01-2005, 01:38 PM   #16
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Just an idea. I use the autometer AFR hooked to the rear, stock O2 simply as a back up for comparison to my Tuner-Pro, and before, the LM-1.

A few times the LM-1 freaked out and was giving some scary readings. Like at WOT the LM-! would read increasing fuel, like it should, then wham! Go waaaay lean. Had I not had the autometer still showing me a reading of off scale, pegged rich, I might have believed the LM-1 and gone on a trouble shooting turkey hunt. Intead I knew it was time to replace the WV O2 sensor. No panicing required.
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Old 05-01-2005, 07:35 PM   #17
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2phless and KrazyK in particular,

the OEM O2 sensors, just like your Autometer gauge, is OK, marginal at best, for giving you rough feedback that will let you know if someting has gone very wrong (like a bad sensor has 2phless pointed out). But it is horrible for tuning anything higher than a few pounds fo boost. And, even then its less accurate the furter you get from stochiometric measurements. So, a DeltaDash reading from the stock O2 sensors isn't useful for real tuning. I wouldn't doubt that you can hook up a better O2 sensor right up to it though. If you are going to tune you need very accurate readings so you can get the right amount of fuel at the right amount of boost. Just knowing you are "rich" by OEM standards can very well be deadly at high boost.
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Old 05-02-2005, 12:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMBOOST
2phless and KrazyK in particular,

the OEM O2 sensors, just like your Autometer gauge, is OK, marginal at best, for giving you rough feedback that will let you know if someting has gone very wrong (like a bad sensor has 2phless pointed out). But it is horrible for tuning anything higher than a few pounds fo boost. And, even then its less accurate the furter you get from stochiometric measurements. So, a DeltaDash reading from the stock O2 sensors isn't useful for real tuning. I wouldn't doubt that you can hook up a better O2 sensor right up to it though. If you are going to tune you need very accurate readings so you can get the right amount of fuel at the right amount of boost. Just knowing you are "rich" by OEM standards can very well be deadly at high boost.
Ok thanks this answered my question about the Delta Dash/Street Tuner logers.
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Old 05-02-2005, 07:55 PM   #19
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So what about the kit autometer sells? It has a separate O2 sensor that plugs directly into the gauge. Seems like that would give the Autometer gauge the right signal for it to read properly, right? Otherwise, it doesn't really seem like they could sell it.....

Last edited by SchnorrCS; 05-02-2005 at 10:28 PM.
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Old 05-04-2005, 01:01 PM   #20
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No replies yet?
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Old 05-04-2005, 01:25 PM   #21
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Does autometer have a stand-alone true wideband now? If that's what it is then I'm sure it's a functional piece. Maybe it's too new for anyone here to have tried out yet. Got a link?
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Old 05-04-2005, 01:26 PM   #22
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This thing perhaps?



as found here http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...24&prmenbr=361

It offers a loggable output. It's probably a decent piece. Looks like it uses the VW sensor.
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Old 05-04-2005, 06:27 PM   #23
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Yeah,thats the UGO.Its fine,its a true wideband.There is a bunch out there.Innovative,AEM,PLX,Dynajet-plus a couple more companies.
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Old 05-04-2005, 10:09 PM   #24
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Nope. The Autometer is not a true wideband.
Ok, if you haven't figured it out yet, I'm KrazyK's friend. Check it out....
I'm getting the Autometer AFR gauge for my 04 wrx. It's a Cobb Stg II car. I know that the autometer gauge isn't a true No-S datalogging wideband AFR gauge, and that's ok with me. I'm getting it to monitor the afrs so I know if I run DANGEROUS lean or rich. I have contacted autometer, and if I could figure out how to put a copy of the email I recieved in here, I would, but I'm at work and I can't.
Autometer designed the gauge to work with THEIR KIT. You have to get the autometer O2 sensor kit to make the gauge read accuratly. I know it will be nothing but a ricey light show without it. So what I did is order BOTH the gauge and the kit. This way I have an easy, relitivly cheap way to make sure I don't blow **** up. See?
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Old 05-05-2005, 02:33 AM   #25
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