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Old 05-02-2005, 02:45 AM   #1
Killian Maynard
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Default 2005 (2004 possibly?) ECU open/closed loop delay able to be tuned out?

I havent stumbled across any information specific to this issue. I know the my05 models (not sure if my04's have this too) have a dramatic open/closed loop delay around 4k rpms that doesnt cycle out untill just over 5k rpms. Is this process able to be tuned out with engine management, say ECUTek?

For a while I ran an accessport derived stage 2 and the delay was very noticeable. I have since been running a custom ECUTek tune. The delay is still there however only during WOT. At partial throttle the power delivery is linear and smooth but with WOT as soon as I pass through 4k rpms up to about 5200 rpms its like the power level plateaus then hits hard at the 5200 mark. It is very noticeable to me since my current setup yeilds full boost (16psi) at 2800rpms and pulls very nicely untill the 4k-5200 zone.

I will be going to my tuner about this (I noticed it almost immidiately after the tune but gave it a few weeks to see if it would cycle out but it did not).

Can this be tuned out or is this just something that cannot be remedied with the stock ECU?

TIA
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Old 05-02-2005, 09:12 AM   #2
subieworx
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The new maps from Cobb for the AP have pretty much gotten rid of the problem. I used to experience this from time to time with my AP and all the time stock, but have no experienced it at all with the new maps. Hence, it seems that it can be tuned out.
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Old 05-02-2005, 09:30 AM   #3
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Yep, this was/is fixed via the AP. Cobb addressed this specific problem with the new maps. I have them loaded on my 04 and it runs very nicely. And yes, the 04's did have it. I have read that it was put in to help with emissions?? But don't quote me on that as that's just what I've read on here.
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Old 05-02-2005, 09:32 AM   #4
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I would agree.

I feel no more of this issue you speak of. Buy yourself an AP, and use their newest mappings.

COBB = teh win
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Old 05-02-2005, 10:51 AM   #5
Killian Maynard
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what version of the AP mapping addressed this issue, I cannot remember the version number but the maps I used when I had the AP were available in January/February of 2005, have they been updated since then?
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Old 05-02-2005, 11:01 AM   #6
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The delay is such an issue with the stock ECU programming, that you can hit 10-12psi and have an AFR or 14:1 before the ECU actually switches...this is very bad and lots of people with the OEM EM have no idea about this problem without logging with a wideband.
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Old 05-02-2005, 11:11 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killian Maynard
what version of the AP mapping addressed this issue, I cannot remember the version number but the maps I used when I had the AP were available in January/February of 2005, have they been updated since then?
V 1.21 solved this problem.
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Old 05-02-2005, 08:23 PM   #8
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And I have V1.22 loaded now, which addressed the problem further.

You should check the message boards on Cobb's site, it has a lot of very good information about this and other issues, straight from Trey or others at Cobb themselves.

Aaron
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Old 05-02-2005, 08:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinsain
And I have V1.22 loaded now, which addressed the problem further.

You should check the message boards on Cobb's site, it has a lot of very good information about this and other issues, straight from Trey or others at Cobb themselves.

Aaron
Just for the record,

V1.22 stg 2 didn't "address the problem further". It was an attempt to solve the stalling problem caused by the newer firmwares. It removes the early CL-->OL switchover if the coolant temperature was less that 170degrees. This didn't solve the stalling problem as that is related to another issue (MY05 based firmware on 04s). With Coolant temps over 170 degrees F, stg2 1.22 and 1.21 are identical.
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Old 05-02-2005, 09:42 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwrecks
Just for the record,

the stalling problem is related to another issue (MY05 based firmware on 04s).
is this fact?
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Old 05-02-2005, 09:48 PM   #11
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Well my problem was resolved today through the masterful work of Nate at Subaru Specialists.

The basline graph showed the loss of power I felt at the 4-5k rpm range, a good 8-10 whp drop then back up to normal at 5k or so. The strange thing was during that dip the timing, AFR and PSI all stayed exactly the same. According to the map there was nothing happening but the dyno never lies. So Nate started over from scratch and reset all of the throttle settings (and a bunch of other things I have no idea about) and set the open/close loop delay to 0. On the following dyno pull and 10 more in row with no cool down periods the car ran 10 WHP higher at 212 whp @ 6500rpm and 5 AWTQ higher at 3750 rpms. The dip is gone and the car pulls so much harder now. The AFR, multipliers, timing and boost is exactly the same as the original/baseline tune, safe and conservative.

So far, so good and good riddence to that pesky delay!
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Old 05-02-2005, 11:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwrecks
Just for the record,

V1.22 stg 2 didn't "address the problem further". It was an attempt to solve the stalling problem caused by the newer firmwares. It removes the early CL-->OL switchover if the coolant temperature was less that 170degrees. This didn't solve the stalling problem as that is related to another issue (MY05 based firmware on 04s). With Coolant temps over 170 degrees F, stg2 1.22 and 1.21 are identical.
And actually....Stg. 2 V1.22 did address the OL/CL problem further, here: http://www.cobbtuning.com/wrx/access...2093%20oct.txt

Also, V1.22 Stg 2 is the map that people are having stalling with because they used the 05's base factory firmware and on the 04's it had that unexpected problem, here: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=760989
and here: http://www.wrxforum.com/cgi-bin/ulti...;f=11;t=001558

Not only did V1.22 start to address the problems with idle stalling, but it also still had them inherently programmed into it, hence the two threads noted above.

Just making sure anyone who cares understands.

Aaron
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Old 05-02-2005, 11:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hondaeater69
is this fact?
yes.....
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Old 05-03-2005, 08:05 AM   #14
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I have had no stalling issues with mine at all. Although i think I am going to switch back to one of the older maps as my fuel economy sucks with the changes to 1.21 and 1.22.
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Old 05-04-2005, 01:03 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subieworx
I have had no stalling issues with mine at all. Although i think I am going to switch back to one of the older maps as my fuel economy sucks with the changes to 1.21 and 1.22.
You can't switch back to the older maps. Once you've done the firmware update and install the v1.21 or v1.22 maps, you're stuck.

I thank God for the fact that I didn't upgrade my firmware. I'm running the pre v1.21 beta map that has the OL/CL changes but runs on the MY04 original firmware. I'm running v1.20 RT map over the beta for 93 oct fuel, timing and boost parameters.

I feel really bad for those users out there that are having stalling issues and hope Cobb releases a solution fast.
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Old 05-04-2005, 01:36 PM   #16
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I have heard that you can. I'll have to do some more research.
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Old 05-04-2005, 04:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subieworx
I have heard that you can. I'll have to do some more research.
You would have to revert back to the old firmware in order to run the older maps. The older maps were designed to run with the old firmware and are not compatiable with the new firmware. You can't even get the old maps loaded on the AP if you're running the new firmware.

Unless there's a way to revert back to the old firmware, you're stuck.
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Old 05-05-2005, 08:37 AM   #18
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There is a way to revert back, but I don't know if it is worth the hassle.
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Old 05-05-2005, 01:52 PM   #19
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Sounds like another reason people become "stuck" with the accessport. I wonder if the accesstuner or pro tuner will allow enough fine tuning to account for the OL/CL delay?

ECUTek seems to have it under wraps.
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Old 05-05-2005, 02:37 PM   #20
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You've been talking about the OL/CL delay this whole thread, but I'm pretty sure that that was not your problem. The delay caused by the switch is microseconds long, you don't just feel it happening. You may notice some hesitation, but its not alltogether noticible. I would say your issue was related to your tune more or less.

Cobb addressed the issue and it is all but nonexistant now. They addressed it, however, because the longer delay is not safe for A/F ratios and higher tuning levels, not because people didn't like it being there because they could feel it, you know what I mean...? There is no fine tuning that needs to be done to current AP maps to "tune it out" as you say. Its gone....plain and simple.

I take it you probably didn't get a chance to use the newest maps from the AP before you Ecutek'd it?

Aaron
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