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Old 07-28-2001, 02:32 AM   #1
Scooby South
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Default Well...Now I can Tell you What happened

Just got my car back from the dealer today...So heres what happened....
As most of you know I had a Minnam Stage 2 turbo in a MY 00 RS Coupe...I loved the way it ran with the turbo in it...It like the way it should have come to factory..Well Anyways...I put my turbo in at the beginning of May...It ran great....I was running about 4.5 lbs of boost with no electronics...so I was running straight from the wastegate....the wastegate had a 5lb. spring in it...I had a custom 3" stainless downpipe, no Cats, and going into a mandrel bent 2.5 exhaust with a Stainless muffler...I was also running a ACT clutch so everything was well...Car ran great..BUT...After I put clutch in, I decided it was time to up the boost...( Yeah I know, BAD IDEA with no Trons...) But everything I had found said 7lbs was about the limit of everything...I had a Vishnu 255 GPH Fuel pump...a Vortech 6:1 FMU, Better NGK Plugs...the works...I only had 8200 miles on it when I put the turbo in...so I thought I was good to go....Well...I got a JoeP Manual Boost Controller and Dialed it into 6.5 lbs of boost...Not a big jump mind you, but enough to FEEL a difference...So there I was about 4 days after I got my MBC....and I LOVED how the car Ran.....I should mention at this time that I have a FULL array of gauges including: Boost, EGT, Oil Pressure, Air/Fuel, and Oil Temp ...My EGT's were no more than 1500 on full boost runs....so I was sitting pretty good....I had already planned my next upgrade to 550cc injectors, Fuel rails and possibly a TEC 2....Well it didn't last that long.....After a full boost run one night...I heard this CLAK CLAK CLAK....I am like OH NOOOOOOO.......So off came the turbo...( I sold it since I was buying a house anyway) EVERYTHING Stock went back on the car and I turned it into The dealer....I am on a limited time schedule since my car is due to ship to the mainland from Hawaii the second week of Aug....I thought I was SCREWED....But my Dealer was great...Extra Great...The took care of me....Anyways back to the story...The dealer had to order a NEW Shortblock...as it turned out I Cracked my #1 Piston...It sorta Chipped the edge of the piston like a sliver all the way down to the first Ring Seat....Wierd...as all my gauges at the time were Green and Good to go....But anyways..I have Scooby Back now and its all Good...the best part is they covered everything under warranty...Something about "Theres been alot of Pistons Cracking in a MY00 2.5 motor"...I am not complaining mind you..I think thats awesome..

Well Thats my story...Many Lessons learned over this incident will teach me FAR FAR in the future...I will build another Turbo motor in the future for sure....But this time its not JUST going to be a kit....Words of wisdom to those who are considering or have done this...BUILD A PURPOSE BUILT TURBO MOTOR...thats my advise....

How many other MY00 RS's have had Cracked pistons?????
I know of a couple...

Aaron????
8Complex???

Who else...

Thanks for listening....and I am SOOOOOOOOO GLAD I have Scooby Back...It sure beats the 99 Legacy L Auto I was driving for the last month...
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Old 07-28-2001, 03:06 AM   #2
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Well, at least I'm not alone.
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Old 07-28-2001, 03:14 AM   #3
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Yo South, you gonna post that timeslip that earned you that CLAK CLAK CLAK?
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Old 07-28-2001, 05:08 AM   #4
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Interestingly enough I blew up all my pistons with a JoeP MBC as well. I don't think they work very well at low boost settings. I think they spike a lot. When I bought it from Joe he said he wasn't sure how well it would work in a low boost appliaction.

I cracked all four pistons, blew the rings, broke a large chunk out of the #3 piston which cause signifcant chaos in the heads.

I also considered having the dealership rebuild it, but I decided I liked the car and if it was going to be opened up I might as well beef it up a bit. I should have the car running again soon with its new beefy internals.

BTW my car still made a 14.xx pass when the motor blew. The drive back to the pits sucked though.

Aaron
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Old 07-28-2001, 05:44 AM   #5
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Hey....just curious on you guys VIN #....I wonder if they DID have a bad alotment of Pistons?????
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Old 07-28-2001, 07:23 AM   #6
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I am 01768.

Aaron
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Old 07-28-2001, 10:24 AM   #7
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Hearing this makes me uneasy about getting a turbo kit... I think I may just build everything up and then go turbo to keep from having major problems...I cannot be left w/o a car to drive everyday.

-justin
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Old 07-28-2001, 02:46 PM   #8
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Mine is 00806
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Old 07-28-2001, 02:56 PM   #9
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MY00 02158

Also, it is of my opinion that the valve reliefs on the pistons were of poor design. Mine cracked starting at one of those edges and made it's way maybe 40 around the edge and took that same distance off (relief to edge) all the way, like it was meant to tear off. :-/

Also, FYI, for the meantime I am putting the engine back together with lower compression pistons, with the square w/rounded edges relief in the top out of an older block. I believe it was 9.7:1, though I could be wrong. Hoping that that will make it easier to stay away from detonation... especially since I'll only be running 2-3psi until I can build up another block.

Last edited by 8Complex; 07-28-2001 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 07-28-2001, 03:04 PM   #10
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Ugh... I'm 1579 Looks like I may be going the motor swap route after all...

Brian
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Old 07-28-2001, 07:54 PM   #11
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Do you think that the MY01 pistons would hold up better?

-justin
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Old 07-29-2001, 04:31 PM   #12
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Wow it's amazing what a little anecdotal evidence can convince you of Brian '00 RS #560, 5-9psi for the past 8 months/20k miles, no motor problems. If my car blows up now that I said that, I'm gonna kick all you guys asses Seriously though, I wonder if it's sheer luck, or perhaps engine management, that is the cause?
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Old 07-30-2001, 02:25 AM   #13
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What would be the signs of a mildly cracked piston?

Rough Idle? Misfires as boost rises on only the one cylinder? Worried?

Larry
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Old 07-30-2001, 04:51 AM   #14
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Larry....It could be some of those things you mention...But I would check your Exhaust Header coming from the block to check for a possible Exhaust leak causing a Lean condition in that one cylinder due to sucking air...Otherwise...If your motor sounds good...I wouldn't think its a cracked piston...but I am not a expert by no means....Are you smoking at all???? Rings? maybe???...how about a compression check on all the cylinders..should read withing +- 5% of each other...also might want to check our plugs to see how they look...I am willing to bet that the one cylinder thats misfiring might be fouled...not letting enough spark thru to lite off the combustion causing misfire...Might want to check your plug wires while your at it... Hope it helps...Let us know what you find...

Alooooooooha
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Old 07-30-2001, 01:10 PM   #15
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Thanks,

I'm going in at 1:00pm to get Suby Sports to check it - was supposed to hit the dyno tomorrow if the timing controller is ready to test.

Car runs fine, and misfire light only shows up after a hard run, cooling off, shutting down and then restarting it later. After 1-2 minutes the CE light pops up, whether I am idling or driving slow or fast. Noticed it idles slightly rougher, where the IC is moving more and rattles on the clutch master cylinder and hood, despite my STI motor mounts and tranny mount.

Yesterday I saw the oil light flash on then off after starting up, driving and hitting the brakes soon after. Disappeared the rest of the time driving, until I went through the same startup and hit brakes again. Last oil change was 2mo/3,000 miles ago with Synthetic for the first time - will see if my oil is low. With 30K (18K turbo'd) it has never burned oil, will see if that is a new issue or not today.

I wasn't sure if it was the combination of 10+ psi boost and a 10-20% mix of toluene I've been running for the past 2 weeks I am down to under 5% as I diluted it with 93 pump gas over the past week...

Larry
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Old 07-30-2001, 04:59 PM   #16
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Don't forget larry that it takes a much much smaller opening for synthetic to get through.

that's why you don't put synthetic in old motors, because by morning it will all of leaked out.

although after starting my car the oil will sometimes stay on for a second or two then go off, I never slam on the brakes really so I don't know if it would then either, but my oil level seems to be fine (according to the dipstick) and it hasn't fluctuated. so I'm not too sure what to think of it.

so it's possible in your case the they synthetic is able to squeeze inbetween tighter places to get into the combustion chamber is it blowing any smoke at all? if not then it could be the screwy oil light problem that I have, just accentuated since you probably do harder driving than I do

eli
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Old 07-31-2001, 02:49 AM   #17
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Aphex - SubySports figured the same thing you did. I was 2.5 qts low!!! Only 3K miles in 2 months and I went through almost 3 qts synth oil. He says it was all those redline runs in 5th gear that did it

That was my one and only synth oil change, and I am back to Valvoline 5-30 dinosaur oil now...

Car runs great, idles better, no more misfire CE lights, etc... No smoke ever though... Almost no oil residue in the IC, so I don't know where it went, maybe out the turbo oil seals, or blow by pressurized the crankcase and oil came up into the cylinders?

Speaking of driving hard, my Brembo rotors up front are full of like a hundred tiny surface cracks! Good thing I didn't do the cross drilled, or they would have been toast by now.

Larry
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Old 07-31-2001, 07:27 AM   #18
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Well, I think I see the pattern. Scooby South, what fuel pressures were you running? Peak and spike?
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Old 07-31-2001, 12:17 PM   #19
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You know, this post is basically you admitting to fraud. I hope those Subaru guys aren't gonna see this post!
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Old 07-31-2001, 01:02 PM   #20
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Fuel Pressure was whatever a Vishnu 255 GPH sends plus the 6:1 Vortech FMU.
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Old 07-31-2001, 01:32 PM   #21
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2.5 quarts low... doh that's not good. that's over half of the capacity including filter!
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Old 08-26-2001, 03:38 AM   #22
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Have a Nice Day?

Looks like i may have the infamous cranked piston on #4. We'll know more later.

I have several options:

(1) JC Sports has the 8.5:1 ceramic topped teflon coated forged pistons in stock, and can o-ring the heads and shot peen the rods while they do this, at about $2,500 for the rebuild. They promise the car back in 2 weeks. No offense to them, but with Murphies law in full force, this really means 4 weeks after the usual unexpected delays, with NO car in the interim.

(2) I can do a full blueprint for about $4K parts and labor (with my vendor discount) and have it back and running in two weeks, only because they were already halfway done building up a short block. No offense to them, but with Murphies law in full force, this really means 4 weeks after the usual unexpected delays, with NO car in the interim.

(3) They can get me stock piston(s) and patch up the motor so I can easily break it again later. Est $700 assuming that the rods, bearings and crank are okay, and be up and running in 1 week. This really means 2 weeks after the usual unexpected delays, with NO car in the interim.

(4) I can drop in a used low mileage 2.2L Phase II motor in just ONE day and drive out there Tuesday for under $2,000 and take my time repairing the stock EJ25 later.

(4a) If the original but blown EJ25 is later repaired to stock condition, then I'll have it as a spare to either (1) put back in the car when I sell car in 3-4 years, and (2) have a spare motor if I blow up the 2.2L that I just put in the car, or (3) after the EJ25 is fixed I can put it back in the car , until I can build up the 2.2L properly with forged pistons, etc...

(4b) While the 2.2L is in the car, I can do the full build up of the original blown 2.5L to put back in the car in a few months.

(5) Buy an EJ20 with tranny, ECU and harness for $1,800 but need a cross member, a cooling system conversion, and 2 weeks to wire it all up at a cost of $500-800 labor. I could resell my old turbo kit for $3,500 to pay the bill, but swap out the JDM compressor for the VF22 out of my current turbo kit.

But, with options 1, 2, or 4b - then if I sell car later without the turbo on it, it wll have a wimpy 8.5:1 compression ratio and at 6,000 feet that will suck.

Options 3, 4a or 5 seem to make the most sense... I am leaning towards 4a - whaddayathink?

Larry
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Old 08-26-2001, 08:19 AM   #23
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Larry,

Sorry to hear that you were the next victim in what is turning out to be a very bad summer for turbocharged RS'es.

Since this is your daily driver I would go with one of the options that has you picking up another block (whether it is a 2.5 or 2.2). This will allow you to be back up and running in the quickest amount of time. This also will give you the spare block to build up if you choose to.

I would probably just get a used 2.5 block and put that in there and build your current block. The 2.2 may be a stonger turbo block, but you will be duplicating labor the most number of times if you buy a 2.2 install it and then decided to build it down the road. You would have to swap blocks multiple times. Where if you get a 2.5 you can swap blocks, build your current block, and swap back and have a spare. It could cut down on the number of swaps and I would guess that a used 2.5 is cheaper and easier to come by than a crate 2.2T block.

In retrospect I wish I would have bought the 2.5 shortblock that was offered to me when I fragged my motor. At least I wouldn't be going on week 13 without my car, due to unforseen manufacturing delays, parts mismatches, etc.

Let me know if you need anything, feel free to email me anytime. I will go through your site and try to find some more parts to order to do my share in helping you out

Aaron
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Old 08-26-2001, 10:51 PM   #24
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Default Larry, Go with EJ20!

So we can all benefit from your well documented experience! Would this be a new WRX motor or one of the STI's floating around?
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Old 08-27-2001, 12:10 AM   #25
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I am turbo charging my 01 RS. I guess I'll just roll the dice and hope I have good pistons..........
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