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Old 12-23-2004, 06:12 AM   #1
xephyr
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Default 452 whp,434 wtq on 91 octane

Well, it's been a while since I've posted here, but I thought I'd give everyone here a shout out for the holidays, and a quick update on my GC8 project. I don't if any my fellow buddies from back in the day still lurk here (look at my member number; i'm from the really old school days of Nasioc), but here goes:
As the title reads: 452 whp, 434 wtq. On 91 octane, and 22 psi of boost, in colorado's mile high altitude.

Quick power mod list:
Engine: 2.5 Sti stock shortblock assembly
Heads: phase 1 DOHC heads (circa 1998 and stock)
Turbo and exhaust plumbing: custom welded stainless steel
Turbo: Garret 60-1 custom turbo built by TEC in Golden, CO
Compressor: late model .50 a/r, 60 trim 2.3"/3"
Turbine: 0.82 a/r, 76 trim, 2.2"/2.6"
ECU: link plus, apex-avc-r
Greddy FMIC
front x-member converted to WRX type, to facilitate better turbo plumbing

Other mods:
Tein HAs coilovers and strut tops, do-luck bars everywhere, cusco strut bars front and rear, cusco sway bars, all bushings converted to group n and whitline, sti front and rear control arms, front cusco type crossmember brace, Modena dogbox, sti plated mechanical diffs, 20 kg center diff, bigger axles, Prodrive GC06 18" wheels, bigger brakes of course, etc.

Future plans include a switch to USDM STi heads and cams, and a custom Schwitzer
turbo.

Happy Holidays,
Mark R





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Last edited by xephyr; 12-23-2004 at 06:19 AM.
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Old 12-23-2004, 06:19 AM   #2
Notfastenough
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Damn OG! and nice car
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Old 12-23-2004, 06:35 AM   #3
cooter
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Looks a bit laggy, but I bet it hits like a sledgehammer

Still though, a stout powerband from 5-7k rpms. Any plans to dragrace this car?; would love to see what she does
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Old 12-23-2004, 07:01 AM   #4
xephyr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooter
Looks a bit laggy, but I bet it hits like a sledgehammer

Still though, a stout powerband from 5-7k rpms. Any plans to dragrace this car?; would love to see what she does

I usually road race the car at the local track club events. The custom gearing mandates that the meat of the powerband be between 5000-7000rpm. Thus the setup was tailored to do this, as you can tell from the dyno plot. Basically I tried to maximize the area under the curve between 5000-7000.

I plan on doing a run at the drag strip when they reopen in the late spring. Even if they were open, it wouldn't do me much good anyways because it's currently a white out blizzard in Colorado right now.

Also, the car is daily driven to work and has 100,000 miles.

Mark R
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Old 12-23-2004, 07:51 AM   #5
WRX34
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Yikes...taking as much if not more than the ol 22T eh? Sounds like she's holding up well! What gearset/tranny are you using?


WRX34
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Old 12-23-2004, 07:55 AM   #6
cooter
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It sounds like you have a well thought-out and executed powertrain. Congrats
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Old 12-23-2004, 08:16 AM   #7
SilverSurfer04STi
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Looks like an awesome setup.

Love the old school modified Subies.
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Old 12-23-2004, 09:08 AM   #8
Junior2JZ
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Now thats nice....
Awesome power, nice power band..... cant say enough about it...

Junior
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Old 12-23-2004, 10:14 AM   #9
hotrod
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Default high altitude power

As usual Mark has one of the baddest subies in town.

Good numbers Mark.

For those who didn't catch it, this is at over a mile high altitude. These are truely impressive numbers up here. They are with in spitting distance of the highest HP numbers recorded on a dyno at this altitude by DSM's and EVO's with very expensive setups!!

Larry
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Old 12-23-2004, 10:27 AM   #10
PRGWRX
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sick ride bro

frederick
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Old 12-23-2004, 11:14 AM   #11
Wombat North
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Mark

I have been waiting for this post of yours for along time.

Myself and HOK wish you a Merry Xmas. May you frequent these boards more often as you have been missed. One of the only true Guru's here.
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Old 12-23-2004, 11:22 AM   #12
AntiochCali
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Congradulations,

That is the most torque I've ever seen on 91 on a 4 cylinder car.

Really good job! :two_thumbsup:
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Old 12-23-2004, 11:43 AM   #13
sponaugle
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www.surgelinetuning.com

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Very nice setup, and with that weight of car, it should be pretty zippy.
Very good torque spoolup as well, especially for 91 octane. That 60-1 hotside is pretty large, and it shows in the width of the powerband uptop. Over 400whp for a long time.

I noticed on the dynoplot that these were corrected numbers, and that the correction is 1.22? That is a pretty significant correction factor, as that would net only 370whp uncorrected, and the difference in altitude at that boost level would not correspond to 70hp difference.

As well, one could determine in BSFC at that power level (22psi, 2.5Ls, NAVE less then 100%), and I suspect it would be unusually low. Any ideas on the duty cycle of your injectors, and the corresponding MAF readings?

Cheers,

Jeff
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Old 12-23-2004, 12:21 PM   #14
MARKGSTI
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Me very jealous...good stuff

Should be a monster @ the 1/4 dragstrip.
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Old 12-23-2004, 02:50 PM   #15
gpatmac
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I'd guess that would make you an across-the-spectrum Impreza god. Awesome.

I concede that the major power happens between 5-7k rpms, but you're still seeing 240ft/lbs at 4k rpms. That's not bad. The curve looks streetable enough.

I'm guessing traps could be well over 123.

As a note, does the MSD only work on cars with a distributor?
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Old 12-23-2004, 03:21 PM   #16
PHATsuby
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awesome mark, you need to post here more so the people interested can benefit from your wisdom

congrats.

Ben
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Old 12-23-2004, 03:24 PM   #17
WRC 555
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Very impressive numbers! Are you using the AVC-R for its gear dependent capabilites? Just wondering why you didnt decide to use the Link Plus to control boost. I've had great results pushing 16psi+ using the 2 port solenoid.

Looking foreward to see what it traps at that altitude.

P.S. I'm as old school as you are
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Old 12-23-2004, 04:19 PM   #18
scoobyimpreza
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what size pump and injectors are you running?

what do you usually do with the car? little of everything? or just to drive from point A-B
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Old 12-23-2004, 04:29 PM   #19
scoobyimpreza
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oh and someone was asking about tranny and what not... he list what he has

"Modena dogbox, sti plated mechanical diffs, 20 kg center diff, bigger axles"
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Old 12-23-2004, 05:01 PM   #20
xephyr
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Wow, it's good to see some of guys from back in the day are still here!

WRX34 - The transmission uses Modena straight cut gears which use dog engagement. The gears are the original phase 1 Modena, and not the latest generation of their gears. Ratios are 3.000,1.930,1.440,1.095,0.826, with a final drive of 3.900.

Wombat - Merry Christmas! Make sure you wish HOK a Happy Holidays for me. I'll see if I can't send him an email when I get some time.

gpatmac - The MSD i'm using (msd dis-2) is used for distributorless ignitions. However, what you are probably thinking of is that it doesn't work with individual coil pack setups (i.e. wrx) because there is no separate ignitor pack. The newer RS's (1999 and later) also have coil packs with integrated ignitors, so the MSD won't work on these either. Supposedly though, you can wire in the ignitor from the old cars to use the MSD DIS-2, but you'll also have to use either the old style coil pack , or the MSD coil pack like i'm doing.

mrn98 - the car weighs in a hair over 2700 lb.

WRC 555 - I do like the avc-r's gear dependent capabilities. Mostly, I chose it because I've been using it for so long that I'm scared to change to something else (i've been using it since i turboed the car in 98!). Also, certain individuals waaaaaay back in the past advised me to use a separate computer besides the LINK to control boost. It's good to hear you are getting it work well though. I still contemplate making the switch, mostly to simplify my setup. Also, you are actually oldER school than I

Sponaugle - Yes, with the light chassis it definitely accelerates much differently than the GD setups I've been in! Also, it performs well in the corners at the local track; I' m able to maintain good traction with the size tires I'm using (225s), because of the lighter weight of the chassis. Although, I've had to stiffen the chassis significanlty because of my power levels; at one point the rear crossmember assembly got tweaked waaaay out of alignment (you could actually see the rear diff sitting crooked relative to the body). Changing to stiffer bushings in this area and adding some reinforcement braces in this area solved this.
The earlier torque spoolup has a lot to do with the smaller duration cams I'm using. These smaller cams are also the same reason that my torque drops off so quickly! I've tried the HKS 264 duration 9.5 mm lift cams in my heads before but found they pushed the powerband way to far up top for what i'm doing, and I litterally lost all my early boost and torque. The loss was as much as 50 ft-lbs in the 4k-5k rpm range(Note: these cams were for the STi ver3 heads, which actually fit into the US phase1 dohc heads without modification). I've been actually paying very close attention to your research on the cam topic, and your project, and am very curious to see your results on your latest project. In fact, I'm waiting on your results before I decide on what I'm going to do with my head/cam mods!
Also I knew I could depend on your sharpness to catch the correction factor . I'm not sure what to think of it exactly. Some people claim it's too optimistic. Others have come from sea level to find that it's fairly accurate. Me personally, I have driven cars at this altitude, and also at sea level (specifically the Bay Area in San Francisco), and found that cars at sea level turn into ANIMALS when compared to here. The altitude makes a BIG difference. Extensive discussions with the engineers at Turbo Engineering Corporation here in Colorado verify this. They have told me that if I were at sea level, they would have designed a totally different turbo for my application. Basically, running high boost levels here requires a lot of work from the turbo, and pushes the turbo into an efficiency range and pressure ratio range which they wouldn't see at sea level (this is obviously a very undesirable effect). Therefore, these aspects are factored into the trim and wheel/housing size when sizing turbos for altitude. They tend to agree that dyno numbers here require a significant correction factor to be compared to sea level numbers, because basically things can be done at sea level that just will not happen here at this altitude.
Also, the duty cycle of the injectors maxes out between 85-90%. Because I'm using the LINK Plus, I'm not using a MAF sensor (only MAP), and don't have any info regarding cfm numbers.

hotrod - thanks for the props. I'm finally starting to catch up with those elusive Mitsu guys around here!

Last edited by xephyr; 12-23-2004 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 12-23-2004, 05:09 PM   #21
xephyr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobyimpreza
what size pump and injectors are you running?

what do you usually do with the car? little of everything? or just to drive from point A-B
pump is a walbro gss 342. Injectors are Rochester 75 lb units. At my fuel pressure I am seeing over 800 cc/min.

I usually drive it through the snow covered mountain roads of colorado to work (60 miles roundtrip). I also cruise it around town when i'm in town. During the race season, it sees a lot of time at the local race track for open track events, and I also enter it into SCCA Solo 1 events. This spring, I plan on finally going to the local drag strip when they open up again, and finally publishing some 1/4 mile times.

Mark R
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Old 12-23-2004, 07:01 PM   #22
Pavlo
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This is so similar to my car it's untrue. You even have the MSD in the same place!

It's a very nice package. Like you I have the uprated rear drive to go in (from an sti 6 typre R) along with the DCCD and controller (as apposed to your 20kg diff).

I am also interested how you get on with the link plus. I considered it a long time ago, but ended up buying a car with a Power FC already fitted. My concern with the link, is that even the 10 row link looses some resolution, but it has some nice features.

Paul
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Old 12-23-2004, 09:20 PM   #23
WRC 555
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Pavlo: If you know how to tune a Power FC with the software (that was unavailable to the public) tuning the Link Plus will be a breeze. I've been running the Link Plus on my car for over 3 years now and naver had a problem. Rarely you will will find EMS these days with hardware glitches. Just remember that a car with a standalone EMS is as good as its tuner
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Old 12-23-2004, 09:50 PM   #24
whoop whoop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xephyr
pump is a walbro gss 342. Injectors are Rochester 75 lb units. At my fuel pressure I am seeing over 800 cc/min.

I usually drive it through the snow covered mountain roads of colorado to work (60 miles roundtrip). I also cruise it around town when i'm in town. During the race season, it sees a lot of time at the local race track for open track events, and I also enter it into SCCA Solo 1 events. This spring, I plan on finally going to the local drag strip when they open up again, and finally publishing some 1/4 mile times.

Mark R
Note to self STAY FAR AWAY FROM BLACK RS

Awesome Car!!!!!!!

Every make it down to the Springs, or PMI???
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Old 12-23-2004, 10:31 PM   #25
xephyr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRC 555
Pavlo: If you know how to tune a Power FC with the software (that was unavailable to the public) tuning the Link Plus will be a breeze. I've been running the Link Plus on my car for over 3 years now and naver had a problem. Rarely you will will find EMS these days with hardware glitches. Just remember that a car with a standalone EMS is as good as its tuner
I agree 100% - tuning is the key to any standalone.

Pavlo - you are correct in stating some concern with ECU resolution. Although the LINK doesn't have the best resolution, it is very adequate for what I'm doing. Very advanced systems like the MOTEC and Pectel units are definitely better, but expensive for guys like me and somewhat inaccessible to me from a technical support point of view, and also a little overkill for what I'm doing. Realize that full race teams require these advanced ECUs due to a fuel conservation issue: they want run the exact minimum amount of fuel to extract max HP, so they can minimize pit stops, carry the minimum weight of required fuel, etc. Also, they can afford the setup, especially if they can get the extra few HP here and there in their powerband. In my case, I make up for the coarse resolution by simply running on the slightly rich side of things where I have to. For the most part, I love the LINK and have had nothing but good luck with it. The only thing I wish it had was wideband capabilities. There are wideband converter boxes out there, and I'm in the process of sorting this stuff out and installing one. Also, the simplicity of the LINK is a big plus as far as tuning goes. The higher end race ECUs may have a million bells and whistles and features, but I simply don't have the data collection/acquisition & sensing resources, or the manpower and time which would fully capitalize on these features (i.e. individual cylinder fuel trim, individual cylinder ignition timing, diagnostic and automated active tuning while driving, etc).
Also, thanks for the compliments; it's good to hear such things from an accomplished individual as yourself.

Mark R.
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