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Old 05-03-2005, 02:14 PM   #1
beefyib123
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Default Bad Dyno tune who NOT to let tun your UTEC

I wasn't going to do this but as you will read the shop in question is not willing....well just read.

Over a month ago i was STOKED i had just put my VF22 on and was going for my first dyno tune. as part of my install process i dumped into the UTEC stg 4 parameters and MAP. the only changes i made was to scale the injectors from the STI injectors to 750 for my modded stockers. the car ran like crap and wouldn't pull at all, infact it would cut out before i hit any real boost. But no worries i am going for a PROTUNE they will fix it just limp it there.

i took the car to a shop in VA. when i got there the guys noticed a tap coming from the motor. I had heard it on and off for a few mos. my thoughts was an exhaust leak. I was wrong. to make a long story short they found a loose spark plug. THIS WAS MY FAULT! i guess i missed putting the ratchet on it.

they put the car on the dyno and after several pulls called me into the dyno room. they ask why my fuel map was looking so very weird. I replied i dunno, and told them again what i had done (stg 4 map+parameters+injecto scaling). the tuner said "Humm OK this map is gonna look weird". i had # as low as -5 in my map!?!? they are the pros who am i to question???

after a few more pulls they unstrap the car and are done. The max HP was only 220ishHP@14PSI. i ask why the low #'s. they said that they were worried about bore-wash from the loose plug. (I dont know if it would do that or not, it would take a PILE of fuel IMHO) in conversation they said that i in no way should be running higher (than 14PSI) boost with the OEM TMIC and to get my goal of 300WHP i should consider getting a FMIC and AEM standalone. the tuner said that they hit a 'brick wall' with tring to get more than 275WHP outta other UTECs.

ANYHOW, their suggestion was for me to drive it for a few hundred miles to clean out the carbon and make sure that there wasn't any problems from the plug being loose and come back for a follow up tune. I didn't agree but i was OK with it and paid them and went on my way (150miles each way).

Afew days later, i started to tune on my own. at the time i didn't have a WBO2 and i just added a few degrees of timing and ramped up the boost a bit.

Here is where it gets interisting.

i talked (through a mutual friend) to the tuner he AGAIN strongly urged me to turn back to his MAP and drive the car for awhile, i did. about 2 wks ago i started the car (cold morning) and started out of my drive. as i did the car started KNOCKing BADDDD. i shut it down. after reading and looking i found the problem....IT was tuned with the temp correct to come on @ 16degrees and add 100%more fuel(i know that is an invalid # but that is waht was there,i have a screen shot if you want). which meant that during tuning the correct was ON and during my cold morning it was OFF thus running VERY lean.

I called the tuner to find out what was up....all he would offer is "it was like that when you drove it here"
i said "shouldn't you have checked that bc of the weird fueling #'s?"
He said "no we don't use temp correct so i didn't look at it"
i ask for a refund on the tune and got laughed off the stage. the tune was worthless and all he could offer me was bring it in and we will tune to where it was before for free but you will have to pay (per hour)for anything beyond 220WHP. Which i am NOT going to do because they didn't do a 'good' job the first time i sure as hell ain't gonna give them a second chance to mess up my car and take my money.

i am not tring to bash anyone i am just telling the facts about what i have gone through.
i have got a TUNA now and i am working on tuning the car myself.

Please give me feedback on this situation or PM me if you would like to know the name of the shop. i can tell you this much its in northern VA
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Old 05-03-2005, 02:44 PM   #2
wrex03
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Wow that sucks.... Tuning yourself is fun and addicting What shop?
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Old 05-03-2005, 03:16 PM   #3
hippy
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It sounds like it was kinda your fault though, at least partially. You might have loaded the parameters for the newer version of the utec firmware(4.2c) into the older version of the utec firmware(4.2 or b4). If I were you, I'd check all the parameters to make sure there's nothing else screwed up. From what I remember, other people who did that(loaded new parameters into old firmware) ended up with a knock count threashold of something like 80(really high since default is 1)along with other abnormal values where they shouldn't be, and their utec's wouldn't even detect knock. An "expert tuner" should have caught these types of problems on the first run, and you shouldn't have to pay for two seperate tunes. I'd definately be pissed.

peace
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Old 05-03-2005, 03:44 PM   #4
RiftsWRX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hippy
It sounds like it was kinda your fault though, at least partially. You might have loaded the parameters for the newer version of the utec firmware(4.2c) into the older version of the utec firmware(4.2 or b4). If I were you, I'd check all the parameters to make sure there's nothing else screwed up. From what I remember, other people who did that(loaded new parameters into old firmware) ended up with a knock count threashold of something like 80(really high since default is 1)along with other abnormal values where they shouldn't be, and their utec's wouldn't even detect knock. An "expert tuner" should have caught these types of problems on the first run, and you shouldn't have to pay for two seperate tunes. I'd definately be pissed.

peace
What he said.

I know I do, and would expect someone to check everything before even firing up the car.

EDIT: though I have to admit. I never have a problem remembering to turn off the temp corrections. I usually have a brain fart in remembering to turn them back ON, so I just am either reminded of it or just remind the customer to go back and set it a certain way I like seeing.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com
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Old 05-03-2005, 03:46 PM   #5
Timdog1650
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PM'ed you about who this is...
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Old 05-03-2005, 04:08 PM   #6
WRX Jim
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why did u go there when turboxs is right in gaithersburg MD.. about 15-20 from the No Va border.....
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Old 05-03-2005, 04:48 PM   #7
SchnorrCS
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^^^^No Kidding!!^^^^^^
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Old 05-03-2005, 04:55 PM   #8
beefyib123
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hippy
It sounds like it was kinda your fault though, at least partially. You might have loaded the parameters for the newer version of the utec firmware(4.2c) into the older version of the utec firmware(4.2 or b4). If I were you, I'd check all the parameters to make sure there's nothing else screwed up. From what I remember, other people who did that(loaded new parameters into old firmware) ended up with a knock count threashold of something like 80(really high since default is 1)along with other abnormal values where they shouldn't be, and their utec's wouldn't even detect knock. An "expert tuner" should have caught these types of problems on the first run, and you shouldn't have to pay for two seperate tunes. I'd definately be pissed.

peace
Yes the problem with it being on was the version being wrong. and since i found out what the problem was i have checked and double checked and found the knock thing too. what i am saying is these guys SHOULD HAVE checked the temp correct AND if nothing else the knock threashold.
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Old 05-04-2005, 08:38 AM   #9
jalow72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beefyib123
i had # as low as -5 in my map!?!? they are the pros who am i to question???
I am running -8.5 in some areas of my map and get a 10.8:1 reading on my w/b. Depends on your car. The default stage 4 map was so rich on my car that it would misfire at 75% throttle.
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Old 05-04-2005, 11:46 AM   #10
ride5000
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to scale your map %s, just use injector scaling.

it's a case of 6 of one, half a dozen of another. i prefer to see fuel map corrections around 0, so i use the inj. scaling to get me close, then fine tune with the map matrix.

i don't know what the max percentage you can input is, but obviously there are limits.

jm2c
ken
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Old 05-04-2005, 11:50 AM   #11
hippy
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oh I kinda forgot what was goin on for a sec. If you really did load the incorrect parameters the first time, and the car was tuned normally, you could just remove 10% from all the numbers in the fuel map to fix the problem. Course who knows if it was tuned normall the first time, so that might be dangerous.

peace
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Old 05-04-2005, 03:45 PM   #12
Subahaulic
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Are there other active dynotuners in NoVA besides Curries?
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Old 05-04-2005, 05:07 PM   #13
beefyib123
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yes, there are.....it was NOT curries...
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Old 05-04-2005, 10:39 PM   #14
Kingpin
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This really sounds like you loaded the wrong peram file. I would check the knock settings. If you loaded the wrong file they will be way off toward the end of the RPM range and the knock count will be off as well. I cant tell you how many cars I have found this way. I always do my best to check every single value. You would be suprised what I find sometimes. Either wrong peram files or "a friend told me to change that" kind of thing. Recently I started just loading my peram file and my base map to start. This way it stops all this kind of thing.

The tuner should have checked that. And if that was me I would have figured out why the car was only making 220whp right then and there and never let you leave until we found out *** was going on. We have done comp tests then and there to find out of the motor is ok and swapped just about every part also. You find some odd things. We all make mistakes. I think you should correct the peram file or at least fix the values and then load a base map and give them a call and ask for a retune. If they say no then screw em. Go somewhere else.

P.S Jorge. I am comming out your way next month to tune a customer car. No dyno day. Just me for his car. Would like to meet up if you have time.

Cya

Clark
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Old 05-04-2005, 10:58 PM   #15
railguy
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u think u could atleast say where in Va it is..........I am getting my xs500 tuned next week using a utec..........but I am not worried since they are vendors..
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