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Old 05-04-2005, 03:15 AM   #1
savageblitz
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Default UTEC w/o ABC

Is it possible to run UTEC w/o the supplied ABC? The user manual says that its not possible.

I've got a friend who is running UTEC w/o ABC - he is using Apexi AVC-R as his Boost controller. What are the implications of doing so?

I've got the Blitz SBC-ID. Would it be possible to run UTEC w/o ABC and use my Blitz SBC ID boost controller?

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Old 05-04-2005, 04:07 AM   #2
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yes..
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Old 05-04-2005, 04:31 AM   #3
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what are the side effects? does my tuning approach have to change? can I still use the different stage base maps?
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Old 05-04-2005, 09:10 AM   #4
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Mine is in, but closed. Your boost map numbers will be higher than if it were in and open. The spool might be just a touch slower, so if you need to ramp the boost up at any point in the map, the required increase will be greater.

I don't think any of the staged maps come with the boost maps particularly 'done' anyway. I haven't looked at the ones for the WRX though.
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Old 05-04-2005, 10:59 AM   #5
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Just out of question, what would be the advantage of using an aftermarket E/MBC such as what you folks have as opposed to the UTEC's ABC? Is there any reason it would be beneficial to do that?
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Old 05-04-2005, 11:04 AM   #6
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the AVC-R has different programs that you can take advantage of, such as gear specific boost settings. Also, they may be able to hold boost more steady than an ABC.
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Old 05-04-2005, 11:06 AM   #7
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The ABC and the EBCs or MBCs don't perform the same task. The ABC simply aids the factory BC. The other two replace the factory boost controller and remove the UTECs control of the boost. This is done. Some like it, some don't.

The nicer EBCs have more control over boost in some aspects, and less in others. The UTEC doesn't have gear specific boost control likethre AVCr, but the AVCr doesn't take throttle position into account so it's more likely to have PTFB conditions if not set up very carefully.

I've found that with the UTEC running the FBC I can hold a higher boost targets longer in the RPM band, but it took a lot of work to get to that point. When I first started tuning , I had better results with EBCs.
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Old 05-04-2005, 11:12 AM   #8
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use the gm solenoid. MUCH better than bleed based systems. cheap too... esp. when compared to the overpriced perrin part!
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Old 05-04-2005, 11:29 AM   #9
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My Utec w/ the ABC is holding between 17 and 19 psi (depending on weather) to redline with it cranked all the way down. I had it tuned to 15.5psi peak, but it still keeps pushing 17 - 19 psi. I'm not getting any knocks so I don't think it's that big of a deal. The only thing that bugs me about the aftermarket EM is the slight stutter I get around 3k rpm where the Utec takes over the closed/open fuel circuit.

PS: I got an extra TXS ABC laying around if anyone is interested.
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Old 05-04-2005, 01:05 PM   #10
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Old 05-04-2005, 09:31 PM   #11
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Doesn't the ABC have a fairly low point at which it can no longer make boost? I was going to use the ABC for my SZ49 but read that it won't hold over 21 psi or so.
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Old 05-04-2005, 10:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver '02 REX
Doesn't the ABC have a fairly low point at which it can no longer make boost? I was going to use the ABC for my SZ49 but read that it won't hold over 21 psi or so.
TurboXS themselves did not use the oem solenoid+abc when tuning big boost:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=573472


I'd say that is a pretty good indicator that the ABC is not up to par.
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Old 05-04-2005, 11:38 PM   #13
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Guys,

Thanks for your responses. So it seems that the general consensus is that an EBC (or even MBC) should hold boost much better than ABC (unless the solenoid is upgraded).

2phless, you mentioned about open and closed, are you referring to open and closed loop fueling? So are you saying that if I were to use an EBC, its better to use closed loop fueling when tuning?

Guys, another question I have is that with an EBC controlling boost, do I still need to tune my boost maps in the UTEC?

Also, as you know most EBC provides different boost profiles, do I have a seperate utec map for each boost map? Sounds logical but hopefully you guys can confirm it?

Thanks again!
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Old 05-04-2005, 11:51 PM   #14
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Open or closed on the ABC. Closed is where you start. Opening it a certain number of turns to vent (increasing boost in the process) is how you tune it.
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Old 05-05-2005, 01:46 AM   #15
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If you control boost using an EBC you do not have to tune boost on the UTEC.

Boost control is much better when you let the UTEC do it.
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Old 05-05-2005, 09:21 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savageblitz
Guys,

Thanks for your responses. So it seems that the general consensus is that an EBC (or even MBC) should hold boost much better than ABC (unless the solenoid is upgraded).

2phless, you mentioned about open and closed, are you referring to open and closed loop fueling? So are you saying that if I were to use an EBC, its better to use closed loop fueling when tuning?

Guys, another question I have is that with an EBC controlling boost, do I still need to tune my boost maps in the UTEC?

Also, as you know most EBC provides different boost profiles, do I have a seperate utec map for each boost map? Sounds logical but hopefully you guys can confirm it?

Thanks again!
What people are trying to tell you is:

1.) yeah, you can use a MBC or electronic boost controller but its kind of a waste of money and at the end of the day, the utec+abc controlling the oem solenoid will be a better, more stable solution.
2.) You can leave the ABC out of the equation and do all of your boost adjustments via the CLB values in the boost map. (This is what I recommend to STI owners do.)
3.) Upgrading your boost solenoid (either the GM part / Perrin ebcs / grainger / etc...) and letting the utec control it is the best, most cost effective option.
4.) The least optimal setup is a stand alone MBC or EBC (unless it's an AVCR$$)

Last edited by AaronWRX; 05-05-2005 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 05-05-2005, 10:19 AM   #17
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Also given certain conditions the ecu can pool boost to save the motor, MBC/EBC can't. This is why certain tuners always like the ECU controlling boost.
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Old 05-06-2005, 11:41 AM   #18
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thanks guys, its clear now :-)
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