cobb vs utec

subiDriver · 05-05-2005, 02:42 PM

Going for the turbo upgrade soon probably the vf34, was wondering which engine managament to go for cobb or turboxs, cobb seems a little in my league money wise was wondering who has them and what do they think of it and is there really any difference with the 2?

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SubyDuz · 05-05-2005, 02:48 PM

UTEC, all the way, I have one tuner friendly and easy to use, they have base maps they can send you for a base map to get started. COBB havent' had any experiance but mroe for mild bolt on cars not turbo upgrades, maybe if you get their new Street Tuner but haven't heard on that.

breathinez · 05-05-2005, 03:21 PM

You can upgrade your turbo with Cobb. They have a map for the VF34. And down the road if you max out your performance level you can upgrade to the Street tuner and go from there. I chose Cobb, mainly because I wanted to be able to run stage 2 and be able to do all the work myself. I don't know of a dyno/tuner close to me ( all wheel drive anyway) that can tune my car. So the Cobb AP is perfecrt for me. I don't have it installed yet but it will be here this afternoon...2nd day air. So stage 2 this weekend!

My 2 cents.

03WREX · 05-05-2005, 05:07 PM

I have Cobb and I found it to be very good for someone who does not know much about tuning but still wants added power. I've gone through stage 1, currently at stage 2, and plan to move to 2.5 very soon.

UTEC is more for people looking to get every last bit of power from their specific setup. Of course it will cost more but you get more. The street tuner should give you more flexibility but will cost similar in price to a UTEC.

84SubaruDL · 05-05-2005, 06:16 PM

i have had both EMS and both systems are really good the thing is, if you want big power use the UTEC, and if you want safety and good power go with COBB.

shinsain · 05-05-2005, 07:32 PM

The AP/Street Tuner will be a better combo in the long run.

The UTEC still uses the stock ECU for some functions and is therefore not totally tunable in as many aspects as I believe the Street Tuner will let you.

With the UTEC you can make big power sooner, but you aren't able to control *every* single aspect like with something like AP/Street Tuner combo which will let you customize as much if not more than the UTEC and then let you reflash the stock ECU which is "smarter" at handling all aspects of our cars than the ECU/UTEC combo.

You aren't able to replicate the stock ECU's tunability/capability with aftermarket ECU's until you get up into the 3000 dollar and up range.

I'm not saying the UTEC sucks by any stretch of the imagination!!0 But in the long run, the AP/ST combo is becoming a better choice. And with the advent of Pro Tuner from Cobb, this will make it even more enticing to stay with Cobb.

Hope this helps,
Aaron

Stellar1 · 05-05-2005, 08:03 PM

So with the Street tuner software the AP is as/more tunable than the UTEC? How about the ease of tuning for the AP, should most tuner shops be able to tune a AP with the street tuner software? I'm trying to make the same decision. From reading it looks like the AP is limited without the street tuner software once you start getting more mods.

shinsain · 05-05-2005, 08:07 PM

I'm not sure about the relation between tuning shops and the Street Tuner software. I know that it is as flexible as anything else, plus you can reflash it w/ the AP once you make your map, so its simple as well.

The AP is *sort of* limited. It all depends on what mods you want to do. If you want to vary from their list, yes, its limited. But they have maps for VF30/34's and all supporting mods, so its not too limited. And the ECU can tune for things like I/C hoses, uppipes, etc. So you're not limited to *exactly* what they say with the AP, but changing things like the intake or intercooler is not recommended.

But with ST, you can do whatever you want. And when Pro Tuner comes out, you can take it to a shop and they'll do it for you.

I know a few shops work w/ ST, but you'd have to call and find out who's had experience w/ it.

Aaron

Stellar1 · 05-05-2005, 08:16 PM

I know this sounds stupid, but is street tuner something you can tune by just running on the road? Is it pretty simple/easy to use for someone with no experience tuning? Is there a way for someone to upload there map onto like Nasioc or something, so where if someone had the street tuner, and went and tuned it with an upgraded intercooler or something, could they upload it somewhere so other people could d/l it?

Edit: Right now I have a TXS shorty intake and a TBE. I was lookin at gettin some sort of engine management next, and then maybe a bigger TMIC, like APS.

shinsain · 05-05-2005, 08:31 PM

You would have to ask Cobb. It is software to make the AP maps. I myself have only seen, and not messed with it too much.

Surgical22 · 05-05-2005, 08:35 PM

Ive been tryiing to make the same decision lately (UTEC/AP)
I have come to this conclusion.
I do NOT have big plans immediately, talking maybe 3-4 years down the road. I'll run cobb stage 2 untill then.
The resale value on the AP is incredible, mainly because they are sold at a fixed price (new) you can pretty much bank on losing maybe $100 tops on an AP....so I'll go AP and should I need the tune-ability ill go with the software, or sell the AP and go UTEC...(Ive seen them sell used for STi's for 600)

shinsain · 05-05-2005, 08:46 PM

That's another good point, the resale of the AP.

mnavarro · 05-05-2005, 09:12 PM

I think the AP is a good architecture, but not everything is in place to create quality maps. I've heard a few comments from some tuners about the ST and say it's a PIA to tune. UTEC is fairly ubiquitous. You will always find somebody who will know how to tune your car. Cobb has a good product, but I know of some people who were detonating on cobb maps. AP != absolute safety. I honestly think Ecutek is a good solution for most people, similar to AP, but not hardware based. You can mod to your hearts content and have nice driveability. Cobb is not there yet, but will be there eventually. I would get Ecutek over utec, and cobb right now, if I was modding my car and had to make my decision today. If I wasn't modding I would get the AP and go with one of their stage setups. I'm currently running Ecutek, but I'm going to be running Utec over it so that I can have multiple maps, valet maps, security, etc.

Surgical22 · 05-05-2005, 09:18 PM

Some of us dont have an ecutek or utec tuner nearby though, so that makes it hard to go that route. I dont want to drive 300 miles every time I get a new mod, and not to mention fork over $200+ each time to have it tuned.

I actually just talked to a shop here who is in the process of getting an AWD dyno, (they have a dynojet 2wd upgradable to awd now) and they said they do street tuning on the utec, and it runs $85 per hour....
Thats not bad, but I'm sticking with cobb for now.

mnavarro · 05-05-2005, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surgical22

Some of us dont have an ecutek or utec tuner nearby though, so that makes it hard to go that route. I dont want to drive 300 miles every time I get a new mod, and not to mention fork over $200+ each time to have it tuned.

I actually just talked to a shop here who is in the process of getting an AWD dyno, (they have a dynojet 2wd upgradable to awd now) and they said they do street tuning on the utec, and it runs $85 per hour....
Thats not bad, but I'm sticking with cobb for now.

For the most part, any quality tune is > than stage map. If you're just going to stick with the stages, pick the ap and you will have a nice upgrade path in the future. If you want the most out of your setup and want to learn about engine management, get the utec or AP+ST. If you want to get the most out of your setup right now and have great driveability get the Ecutek, even if your tuner is 300 miles away.

Surgical22 · 05-05-2005, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnavarro

For the most part, any quality tune is > than stage map. If you're just going to stick with the stages, pick the ap and you will have a nice upgrade path in the future. If you want the most out of your setup and want to learn about engine management, get the utec or AP+ST. If you want to get the most out of your setup right now and have great driveability get the Ecutek, even if your tuner is 300 miles away.

Yeah I agree with that, and in reality like I said im going with EM and a TBE, for now so it would only be one drive, which is no big deal.....but in all honesty with the price difference between the AP and the UTEC+paying for a tune+the drive, the extra $600-700 total it would cost me wound not be worth the 5-10 WHP I MAY or may not get from using the utec with the custom tune.

I'm no stranger to tuning, Ive tuned a couple cars with the LM-1 and an SAFC (Nissans) but a $32k car is not something I really want to mess with right now...LOL

Evil STI · 05-05-2005, 10:18 PM

How does Xede/Vishnu rate among what has been spoken of so far?

mnavarro · 05-06-2005, 12:23 AM

Xede has the potential to be good, as far as driveability it's supposed to be smoother than utec. The problem, it's kind of hard to tune, and not too many people know how to tune the xede. Shiv is a good tuner, but I would want to have the option to use somebody else. I sold mine

subiDriver · 05-07-2005, 10:45 AM

thanks for all of your feedback

subiDriver · 05-07-2005, 10:46 AM

thanks for all of your feedback and comments

05-05-2005, 02:42 PM	#1
subiDriver Scooby Newbie Member#: 79214 Join Date: Jan 2005 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: (central) nj Vehicle: 2004 Stg II wRx pSm	cobb vs utec Going for the turbo upgrade soon probably the vf34, was wondering which engine managament to go for cobb or turboxs, cobb seems a little in my league money wise was wondering who has them and what do they think of it and is there really any difference with the 2? * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

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05-05-2005, 02:48 PM	#2
SubyDuz Scooby Specialist Member#: 80432 Join Date: Jan 2005 Chapter/Region: RMIC Location: SLC Vehicle: 69 IchhateinAudi Blutrot	UTEC, all the way, I have one tuner friendly and easy to use, they have base maps they can send you for a base map to get started. COBB havent' had any experiance but mroe for mild bolt on cars not turbo upgrades, maybe if you get their new Street Tuner but haven't heard on that.

05-05-2005, 03:21 PM	#3
breathinez Scooby Specialist Member#: 79859 Join Date: Jan 2005 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Greensboro, N.C. Vehicle: 2002 06 STi lb, meth 3" 8cm Green Hydra	You can upgrade your turbo with Cobb. They have a map for the VF34. And down the road if you max out your performance level you can upgrade to the Street tuner and go from there. I chose Cobb, mainly because I wanted to be able to run stage 2 and be able to do all the work myself. I don't know of a dyno/tuner close to me ( all wheel drive anyway) that can tune my car. So the Cobb AP is perfecrt for me. I don't have it installed yet but it will be here this afternoon...2nd day air. So stage 2 this weekend! My 2 cents.

05-05-2005, 05:07 PM	#4
03WREX Scooby Specialist Member#: 38932 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Dirty South, CA Vehicle: 2003 WRX WRB - Cobb Stg2	I have Cobb and I found it to be very good for someone who does not know much about tuning but still wants added power. I've gone through stage 1, currently at stage 2, and plan to move to 2.5 very soon. UTEC is more for people looking to get every last bit of power from their specific setup. Of course it will cost more but you get more. The street tuner should give you more flexibility but will cost similar in price to a UTEC.

05-05-2005, 06:16 PM	#5
84SubaruDL Scooby Specialist Member#: 42179 Join Date: Aug 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Middle of Far Vehicle: SON! F 22's i roll on 33" 12 fity SON!!!	i have had both EMS and both systems are really good the thing is, if you want big power use the UTEC, and if you want safety and good power go with COBB.

05-05-2005, 07:32 PM	#6
shinsain Scooby Specialist Member#: 51745 Join Date: Jan 2004 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Wenatchee...WA Vehicle: LIKE A BOSS	The AP/Street Tuner will be a better combo in the long run. The UTEC still uses the stock ECU for some functions and is therefore not totally tunable in as many aspects as I believe the Street Tuner will let you. With the UTEC you can make big power sooner, but you aren't able to control every single aspect like with something like AP/Street Tuner combo which will let you customize as much if not more than the UTEC and then let you reflash the stock ECU which is "smarter" at handling all aspects of our cars than the ECU/UTEC combo. You aren't able to replicate the stock ECU's tunability/capability with aftermarket ECU's until you get up into the 3000 dollar and up range. I'm not saying the UTEC sucks by any stretch of the imagination!!0 But in the long run, the AP/ST combo is becoming a better choice. And with the advent of Pro Tuner from Cobb, this will make it even more enticing to stay with Cobb. Hope this helps, Aaron

05-05-2005, 08:03 PM	#7
Stellar1 Scooby Newbie Member#: 73251 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Pennsylvania Vehicle: 2002 Impreza WRX Blue	So with the Street tuner software the AP is as/more tunable than the UTEC? How about the ease of tuning for the AP, should most tuner shops be able to tune a AP with the street tuner software? I'm trying to make the same decision. From reading it looks like the AP is limited without the street tuner software once you start getting more mods.

05-05-2005, 08:07 PM	#8
shinsain Scooby Specialist Member#: 51745 Join Date: Jan 2004 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Wenatchee...WA Vehicle: LIKE A BOSS	I'm not sure about the relation between tuning shops and the Street Tuner software. I know that it is as flexible as anything else, plus you can reflash it w/ the AP once you make your map, so its simple as well. The AP is sort of limited. It all depends on what mods you want to do. If you want to vary from their list, yes, its limited. But they have maps for VF30/34's and all supporting mods, so its not too limited. And the ECU can tune for things like I/C hoses, uppipes, etc. So you're not limited to exactly what they say with the AP, but changing things like the intake or intercooler is not recommended. But with ST, you can do whatever you want. And when Pro Tuner comes out, you can take it to a shop and they'll do it for you. I know a few shops work w/ ST, but you'd have to call and find out who's had experience w/ it. Aaron

05-05-2005, 08:16 PM	#9
Stellar1 Scooby Newbie Member#: 73251 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Pennsylvania Vehicle: 2002 Impreza WRX Blue	I know this sounds stupid, but is street tuner something you can tune by just running on the road? Is it pretty simple/easy to use for someone with no experience tuning? Is there a way for someone to upload there map onto like Nasioc or something, so where if someone had the street tuner, and went and tuned it with an upgraded intercooler or something, could they upload it somewhere so other people could d/l it? Edit: Right now I have a TXS shorty intake and a TBE. I was lookin at gettin some sort of engine management next, and then maybe a bigger TMIC, like APS.

05-05-2005, 08:31 PM	#10
shinsain Scooby Specialist Member#: 51745 Join Date: Jan 2004 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Wenatchee...WA Vehicle: LIKE A BOSS	You would have to ask Cobb. It is software to make the AP maps. I myself have only seen, and not messed with it too much.

05-05-2005, 08:35 PM	#11
Surgical22 Scooby Specialist Member#: 76730 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Central Ohio Vehicle: 2005 STi Aspen White BEEYOTCH	Ive been tryiing to make the same decision lately (UTEC/AP) I have come to this conclusion. I do NOT have big plans immediately, talking maybe 3-4 years down the road. I'll run cobb stage 2 untill then. The resale value on the AP is incredible, mainly because they are sold at a fixed price (new) you can pretty much bank on losing maybe $100 tops on an AP....so I'll go AP and should I need the tune-ability ill go with the software, or sell the AP and go UTEC...(Ive seen them sell used for STi's for 600)

05-05-2005, 08:46 PM	#12
shinsain Scooby Specialist Member#: 51745 Join Date: Jan 2004 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Wenatchee...WA Vehicle: LIKE A BOSS	That's another good point, the resale of the AP.

05-05-2005, 09:12 PM	#13
mnavarro Scooby Specialist Member#: 51537 Join Date: Dec 2003 Vehicle: 2004 WRB WRX STI 62 Corvette/11 Cherokee L	I think the AP is a good architecture, but not everything is in place to create quality maps. I've heard a few comments from some tuners about the ST and say it's a PIA to tune. UTEC is fairly ubiquitous. You will always find somebody who will know how to tune your car. Cobb has a good product, but I know of some people who were detonating on cobb maps. AP != absolute safety. I honestly think Ecutek is a good solution for most people, similar to AP, but not hardware based. You can mod to your hearts content and have nice driveability. Cobb is not there yet, but will be there eventually. I would get Ecutek over utec, and cobb right now, if I was modding my car and had to make my decision today. If I wasn't modding I would get the AP and go with one of their stage setups. I'm currently running Ecutek, but I'm going to be running Utec over it so that I can have multiple maps, valet maps, security, etc.

05-05-2005, 09:18 PM	#14
Surgical22 Scooby Specialist Member#: 76730 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Central Ohio Vehicle: 2005 STi Aspen White BEEYOTCH	Some of us dont have an ecutek or utec tuner nearby though, so that makes it hard to go that route. I dont want to drive 300 miles every time I get a new mod, and not to mention fork over $200+ each time to have it tuned. I actually just talked to a shop here who is in the process of getting an AWD dyno, (they have a dynojet 2wd upgradable to awd now) and they said they do street tuning on the utec, and it runs $85 per hour.... Thats not bad, but I'm sticking with cobb for now.

05-05-2005, 10:18 PM	#17
Evil STI Scooby Specialist Member#: 36792 Join Date: May 2003 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NNJ HamfistRacing.com Vehicle: 2012 TuRD Special Edition	How does Xede/Vishnu rate among what has been spoken of so far?

05-06-2005, 12:23 AM	#18
mnavarro Scooby Specialist Member#: 51537 Join Date: Dec 2003 Vehicle: 2004 WRB WRX STI 62 Corvette/11 Cherokee L	Xede has the potential to be good, as far as driveability it's supposed to be smoother than utec. The problem, it's kind of hard to tune, and not too many people know how to tune the xede. Shiv is a good tuner, but I would want to have the option to use somebody else. I sold mine

05-07-2005, 10:45 AM	#19
subiDriver Scooby Newbie Member#: 79214 Join Date: Jan 2005 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: (central) nj Vehicle: 2004 Stg II wRx pSm	thanks for all of your feedback

05-07-2005, 10:46 AM	#20
subiDriver Scooby Newbie Member#: 79214 Join Date: Jan 2005 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: (central) nj Vehicle: 2004 Stg II wRx pSm	thanks for all of your feedback and comments