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Old 05-07-2005, 01:40 AM   #1
WrXtaCy2003
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Default AP makes no difference...!!!!

so i finally got my AP on wednsday. I cant notice a difference at all!!! All i hear from you guys is that the difference is so noticable.....the only difference i can tell is when its on valetmode!!!!.....the most boost i hit was 14.2 psi also i left it on stage193oct map for about 100 miles b/c everyone told me to let it do its thing but its not doing anything. Plus that new thread about vishnu vs. cobb is making me wonder if my AP made my car faster or not. I ordered an upipe and downpipe awhile ago and im still f-ing waiting for it....but anyways when i get them installed and run stage 2 and dont notice a difference im gonna be really pissed.....i mean 285hp verse 227hp thats got to be f-ing noticeble. If you guys got any info for me please help me out thanks.
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Old 05-07-2005, 02:01 AM   #2
CBR600F4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WrXtaCy2003
so i finally got my AP on wednsday. I cant notice a difference at all!!! All i hear from you guys is that the difference is so noticable.....the only difference i can tell is when its on valetmode!!!!.....the most boost i hit was 14.2 psi also i left it on stage193oct map for about 100 miles b/c everyone told me to let it do its thing but its not doing anything. Plus that new thread about vishnu vs. cobb is making me wonder if my AP made my car faster or not. I ordered an upipe and downpipe awhile ago and im still f-ing waiting for it....but anyways when i get them installed and run stage 2 and dont notice a difference im gonna be really pissed.....i mean 285hp verse 227hp thats got to be f-ing noticeble. If you guys got any info for me please help me out thanks.
Installed it last night: it DOES make a difference on my car, and we are not talking about something you notice if you really really really pay attention.
As I wrote on another thread, the best way to describe the effect of the AP is that the car seems much more "happy" to go fast. The AP basically removed or minimized those hiccups that are turbo-related, and made the car run as you would expect it to run. For example, it pulls strong all the way to the rev limiter, while before sometimes it felt like I was forcing it to rev up that much.
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Old 05-07-2005, 02:02 AM   #3
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WrXtaCy2003
....but anyways when i get them installed and run stage 2 and dont notice a difference im gonna be really pissed.....i mean 285hp verse 227hp thats got to be f-ing noticeble. If you guys got any info for me please help me out thanks.
If you don't notice stage 2 you should see a doctor about your numb Butt-dyno.

As for your current stage 1, how did you drive for those 100 miles? The harder you drive the faster/better it learns.
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Old 05-07-2005, 07:36 AM   #4
89lx5.0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bort
If you don't notice stage 2 you should see a doctor about your numb Butt-dyno.

As for your current stage 1, how did you drive for those 100 miles? The harder you drive the faster/better it learns.
Drew's Wrx made about ~15hp on a dynojet with the stg1.. And with the stg2 ...... Well, you saw the thread.
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Old 05-07-2005, 07:58 AM   #5
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The difference wasn't "night and day" on stg 1, but I could notice a difference right away. If you can't notice any difference at all, maybe you should check to make sure you actually loaded a base map.
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Old 05-07-2005, 02:20 PM   #6
WrXtaCy2003
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Default

yes i did load a basemap. I drove it pretty hard ...harder than usual forsure. And i do notice the "happier" the car feels. I just thought there would be more. quick question anyone with stage 1 or 2 race a stock wrx ....if so how much did ya win by. thanks you guys. Another thing if im not hitting target boost what are the risks with useing the other map for ppl who arent hitting target boost b/c the disclaimer isnt so assuring. thanks.
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Old 05-07-2005, 02:31 PM   #7
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remember that cobb stage II isnt really an increase from 227hp to 285hp... you will make about 285hp if you are running cobb stage II, but you will make about 265 to 270hp without any engine management if you have a turbo back exhaust and an uppipe. The purpose of the cobb is to give you insurance that your car is making the right ecu decisions and wont blow up over time from usage in non-stock form, to smooth everything out a bit, and to squeeze an extra 15-25hp out of your mods.

Also, this may be a dumb quesiont, but cobb has a whole slew of revised software. Did you plug your unit into the computer and install all the newset software revisions, etc. Cobb said it wont run right if you dont, and you will kill your ecu.

What temperature is it outside? Altitude? Mods you have and make of mods?

the stage one dyno chart doesnt make much more power in the low rpm over stock, it pulls away better in the upper rpm range and is also smoother, therefore you may not really feel it too much. It may just feel smoother and how your car feels on a fast day. As in you just put 94 octane in 2 days eafter a reset, etc.
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Old 05-07-2005, 02:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WrXtaCy2003
And i do notice the "happier" the car feels. I just thought there would be more.
Oh, I thought you didn't notice any difference. Like I said, it won't defeat the laws of physics and make your stock WRX into a cruise missile, it will improve driveability and give the car a little kick in the pants. You want more, then try stage 2.
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Old 05-07-2005, 02:43 PM   #9
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so you changed some electrons, and what.. you thought the car was going to be a top fuel drag car? The AP makes a huge difference... but it isnt going to have the same effect of a new turbo and injectors.

Think about it, you spent $500-600 and added 20HP and can add a lot more with the next stages. Its a great value. If you dont like their maps, buy street tuner and tune yourself. Its good times.
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Old 05-07-2005, 02:46 PM   #10
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First off, sorry about your disappointment brother.

Second, your car should only be making ~14.7psi w/ the Stg 1 map, so you're not really that far off. If its really a big issue, try the HWG Stg. 1 map and see if you get that .5psi back.

Third, as AdmiralWRX said, it will not make your stock WRX into a fricken cruise missle, haha.

And last, if you try the Stage 2 and don't notice a big gain, I don't know what to tell you - your butt is numb man!! When I got my AP, I was running catless uppipe and DP, and just reflashing to Stg. 2 I felt a HUGE difference. Maybe it was just the A/F and boost being remapped, but it feels WAYYYYYY faster now.

That is just my ass's opinion however.

Aaron
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Old 05-07-2005, 05:06 PM   #11
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don't know what to tell you technically, but when I installed my AP (Stg 1 CA 91) I didn't immediately notice the difference. On the first drive with it I drove the heck out of it on some mountain roads, and did notice things were smoother, but not a lot of power difference. On subsequent drives it slowly got more noticeable. Now, 3 weeks later it has finished learning and is very nice. Not a HUGE difference as many have noted, but WAY smoother throughout the powerband and there is deffinitely a little more punch, especially 4K-5K rpm in 2nd and 3rd.

Maybe your expectations were too high? Time to go Stg 2?

j-wrx
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Old 05-07-2005, 10:05 PM   #12
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As many others have said, the biggest differences you get off of Cobb stage 1 are,

1. Smoother on/off boost transition,

2. Better top end.

Overall, it pulls smoothly all the way to the red line.

I've been very happy with the result.
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Old 05-07-2005, 10:35 PM   #13
WrXtaCy2003
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Default

thanks for the input guys. Stilll f-ing waiting for my up and dp so i can run stage 2
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Old 05-08-2005, 02:15 AM   #14
darksands
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I can see where this guy is coming from. I just dyno'd my car at stage 2, Street Tuner map v1.23 It made 199WHP. There was another guy there that made the same thing without EM... Im just confused right about now...
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Old 05-08-2005, 02:31 AM   #15
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Peak numbers.... How did the tq curve compare? That IMO is all that matters.
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Old 05-08-2005, 10:47 AM   #16
gjhsu
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As with all mods, YMMV. I saw quite a bit of improvement.


stage 1, catback, uppipe, intercooler hoses, inlet pipe:
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Old 05-08-2005, 12:06 PM   #17
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Holy Crap! Those are nice numbers....but that's also probably with the 93 Oct map too, being in DFW huh? Wow, very nice.

And darksands: you're in CA, were you using the CA map? Which Stage? What mods?

Aaron
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Old 05-08-2005, 12:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darksands
I can see where this guy is coming from. I just dyno'd my car at stage 2, Street Tuner map v1.23 It made 199WHP. There was another guy there that made the same thing without EM... Im just confused right about now...
Your such a terrible person for spreading such misinformation. Your testing methods are shoddy and you should be ashamed of yourself. Please contact shinsain and riftswrx for a morality lesson.

All in fun...

shiv
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Old 05-08-2005, 12:40 PM   #19
inveSTigator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinsain
Holy Crap! Those are nice numbers....but that's also probably with the 93 Oct map too, being in DFW huh? Wow, very nice.
Yeah, his car very much likey the AP, it's quite the quick one!
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Old 05-08-2005, 12:45 PM   #20
shinsain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vishnu Performance
Your such a terrible person for spreading such misinformation. Your testing methods are shoddy and you should be ashamed of yourself. Please contact shinsain and riftswrx for a morality lesson.

All in fun...

shiv
He doesn't have anything to gain from this. But some little piggy who owns another competing tuning company does....
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Old 05-08-2005, 12:49 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totoherbs
Peak numbers.... How did the tq curve compare? That IMO is all that matters.
If you maximize torque at every engine speed, you will maximize hp at every engine speed. The two go hand in hand. You cannot have a "good" torque curve without a "good" hp curve. If you are defending low peak hp numbers, you are defending low torque at higher engine speeds.

my 2c,
shiv
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Old 05-08-2005, 03:38 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vishnu Performance
If you maximize torque at every engine speed, you will maximize hp at every engine speed. The two go hand in hand. You cannot have a "good" torque curve without a "good" hp curve. If you are defending low peak hp numbers, you are defending low torque at higher engine speeds.

my 2c,
shiv
Perhaps, but if you have a 200 RPM wide HP peak, you have a very poorly driving car. A car with less HP can be faster than a car with more HP, if you spend all that time in the power band. In my opinion, COBB does very well at spreading out the power. This makes the car more drivable, and gives the notorious butt dyno a thrill. Also, it can make it faster, but the peak numbers will not be optimized. However, not having seen the infamous car in question, I can make no comments on the current Jihad.
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Old 05-08-2005, 11:19 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vishnu Performance
Your such a terrible person for spreading such misinformation. Your testing methods are shoddy and you should be ashamed of yourself. Please contact shinsain and riftswrx for a morality lesson.

All in fun...

shiv

Of course... Ill post the dyno sheet from Rim of the world. Dynopack does 165WHP with a stock WRX. I got 199WHP with the StreetTuner Base Map Stage 2 v1.23 no realtime. +34 WHP isnt bad... But we were looking for around 225 from a stage 2 COBB. I am in California... 91 piss gas
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Old 05-08-2005, 11:43 PM   #24
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Man, it sucks to be you guys down there. Ouch.
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Old 05-08-2005, 11:43 PM   #25
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> with the StreetTuner Base Map Stage 2 v1.23 no realtime

Remember, Street Tuner stage 2 map is NOT the same as the AP Stage 2 map, as was stated by Cobb at ST release time. It is "de tuned" slightly.

Regarding Vishnu: the conduct I've seen so far has put me off ever purchasing anything from them. Shiv would do well learning some professionalism. Right now he comes across as a whining cowboy, if you can imagine such a thing.

Show me an impartial 3rd party comparison of tunes. That, I would take notice of. Couple of random comparison runs on one car done by Shiv... forget it. Not worth the bandwidth its transmitted on.
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