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Old 05-10-2005, 07:36 PM   #1
Subergoobr
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Default 99,260mi and I think she may be wounded

So long story short 99,260 mi without too much drama and now I've got a tapping sound at around 3000rpm. Dealer said it was maybe a wrist pin. How long do you think I've got? The only wrist pin I know of in a engine is to connect the piston to the rod. Is this wrong? I feel like I'm on borrowed time and I still can not keep my foot out of it. I think I am going to make a wish list and the first thing on it is 2.5 bottom end swap. Wife is not going to like this list.

1. 2.5 bottom end swap
2. RA gear swap
3. engine, tranny, stearing, shiffter bushings and mounts
4. clutch upgrade
5. ???????????


I know there is more but do not know what is involved and what I can use of the existing mods. Any help would be appreciated.
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Old 05-10-2005, 07:48 PM   #2
ngeren
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Turbo, Injectors, Engine Management, Tune, EBC, goto Step 1.
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Old 05-10-2005, 08:39 PM   #3
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OK mods I have are Unichip (dynoed to all other mods), TurboXS stealth turbo back with race pipe and modified stock muffler, catless uppipe, and samco intercooler hoses. Those are all the power mods I can think of. What turbo would be good for the least amount of lag? Can the stock WRX turbo handle the swap maybe with internal modification?
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Old 05-10-2005, 09:18 PM   #4
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time to get a new block you lucky dog
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Old 05-10-2005, 11:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subergoobr
OK mods I have are Unichip (dynoed to all other mods), TurboXS stealth turbo back with race pipe and modified stock muffler, catless uppipe, and samco intercooler hoses. Those are all the power mods I can think of. What turbo would be good for the least amount of lag? Can the stock WRX turbo handle the swap maybe with internal modification?
Someone did a 2.5 on the stock turbo, and it fell on it's face at 6k. You will need a VF39 or better. Or, build up a 2.2. That should spool the stock turbo like a rocket, and make it up to 7.5k - 8k.
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Old 05-11-2005, 09:25 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bofh
Someone did a 2.5 on the stock turbo, and it fell on it's face at 6k. You will need a VF39 or better. Or, build up a 2.2. That should spool the stock turbo like a rocket, and make it up to 7.5k - 8k.
One reason many of these combos fall on their faces is the lack of head-work done.
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Old 05-11-2005, 10:17 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngeren
One reason many of these combos fall on their faces is the lack of head-work done.
The TD04 is gonna run outta juice with a 2.5l block, just ask FXT owners
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Old 05-11-2005, 10:34 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidIQ
The TD04 is gonna run outta juice with a 2.5l block, just ask FXT owners
especially the ones faster than lgt owners...

and don't gloat too much... your turbo sucks too...
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Old 05-11-2005, 12:21 PM   #9
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Oh no Chris! One of the originals has fallen? Say it ain't so! Just rolled over 93k mtself, and I flog it everyday. Good luck
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Old 05-11-2005, 12:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidIQ
The TD04 is gonna run outta juice with a 2.5l block, just ask FXT owners
Not necessarily. I've seen them put down good numbers with a decent curve. It all has to do with the heads and how it was tuned. On that note, do FXTs have STi heads?
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Old 05-11-2005, 12:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngeren
Not necessarily. I've seen them put down good numbers with a decent curve. It all has to do with the heads and how it was tuned. On that note, do FXTs have STi heads?
yes... FXT is the same longblock w/ a td04, smaller intercooler, and different ecu...
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Old 05-11-2005, 02:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanzBorin
yes... FXT is the same longblock w/ a td04, smaller intercooler, and different ecu...
I was un-aware that the FXT used AVCS. Interesting.
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Old 05-11-2005, 02:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngeren
I was un-aware that the FXT used AVCS. Interesting.
yup... all the same bells, just a few smaller whistles...
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Old 05-11-2005, 03:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
Dealer said it was maybe a wrist pin. How long do you think I've got? The only wrist pin I know of in a engine is to connect the piston to the rod. Is this wrong?
To address this question... yep, the only wrist-pins (that are usually referred to as such in the vernacular) in your motor are the piston-pins. I think the Euro's call 'em 'gudgeon-pins', in case that name gets tossed out to you.

As for if a wrist-pin would knock, I'm sure it's possible, but odds are a rod would knock first, at the big-end bearing ('big-end' of the rod is at the crank. The wrist-pin is at the 'small-end' of the rod).

I am not saying it's impossible for a wrist-pin to go bad.. it -does- happen... just that usually, a rod knocks first if your motor gets to that point.

I hope that it's neither and you're just hearing lifter-noise and are in need of shimming.

Good luck with it.
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Old 05-11-2005, 08:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex-WReX
Oh no Chris! One of the originals has fallen? Say it ain't so! Just rolled over 93k mtself, and I flog it everyday. Good luck
Hey John. Yea she might be hurt but not lame yet. I think it can last untill I get the money together to do the above and required mods. I am going to get in touch with FIS later and get some prices. Guesses aneyone?
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Old 05-11-2005, 08:38 PM   #16
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It should be easy to tell the difference in the noise produced by wrist pins and rod bearings. The wrist pin will have a double knocking noise and its really light sounding.the rod bearing failure is more of a low end knock and can be produced consistenly by revving the engine in blips and as the motors returns to idle the sound will be produced, oh of course the cars in nuertal. hope this helps pin point your problem. If neither of these sound like what your experiencing you might be in need of a valve adjustment?
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Old 05-11-2005, 09:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markswagon
the rod bearing failure is more of a low end knock and can be produced consistenly by revving the engine in blips and as the motors returns to idle the sound will be produced
Right on the money. Is that better or worse than a wrist pin. It does not sound good no matter what it is.
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Old 05-11-2005, 09:12 PM   #18
jefersun
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If it helps any... heres what happend to my motor:

I was tuning one night, increased some timing in the spool regions and got a few couts of knock (like 02 or 03 at max). After retarding timing and going out for another run my CEL flickers like crazy and i hear this tapping sound. Went under the car, sounds louder near the oil pan... It's not a consistent sound at all, it's really random. Well, the car doesn't make that sound anymore but the motor is gone. 60psi compression in cylinder #4, burns oil like crazy (feel sorry for the people behind me..), but i have a ej257 on its way down here in a few days .. i'm guessing its a ring landing.
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Old 05-11-2005, 09:35 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subergoobr
Right on the money. Is that better or worse than a wrist pin. It does not sound good no matter what it is.
neither is good, either means you are going to tear the motor apart anyway.

edit: if the pin is failed, you get a little break only on the machine-work bill b/c you will probably just buy a new rod, have it balanced to the rest, get a new piston (also balanced), and continue with a typical motor rebuild.

When the rod's big-end goes, it usually takes the crank journal with it... its the rod-bearing that's failed. If it's only spun inside the rod (bearing got stuck to crank), then -maybe- resizing that rod (or buyin a new one), re-balancing the rotating assembly, and polishing that crank journal will be enough (with new consumable parts being replaced... rings, bearings etc... ).

What is unknown is how much does that labor cost vs. a new short-block. I'm guessing you're not going to be the guy pulling the motor and doing the disassembly and reassembly, right?

If you are doing that work yourself, then rebuilding the bottom end is probably cheaper b/c you're only going to pay for the new parts you need plus any machine work needed to get the crank and spun rod fixed up vs. -all- of the parts in the short-block.

If you're not turning any wrenches, then my money is on a new short-block is going to be cheaper... but you never know until you ask. I say that only b/c for either solution, you're paying someone to pull your motor, and then put it back in: those two things will happen no matter what you do (if it really is a rod failure or a pin failure).

If in the middle-stage they have to then tear it down and rebuild it vs. just reassemble your top-end bits onto a new shortblock (which happens after a rebuild too), that adds hours of labor + machine-shop costs, even if the parts bill is less vs. the cost of a short-block.

You're kind of stuck waiting for the other shoe to drop right now, so you might not want to get too far ahead on a plan until you can know more definitely what's wrong.
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