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Old 05-17-2005, 03:02 AM   #1
josh...just josh
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Impreza GC8 Ej22T shortblocks and Closed deck Ej22e's

So I guess what I have here are the standred issue engine swap questions that

have undoubtably been asked a million times, but bare with me as I ask once

more. first of all, short of a local junkyard (not much in the way of subaru

pickings) does anyone know of a reliable place to get un-rebuilt subaru

shortblocks? I really need a project and building en Ej22t would be

nice...Secondly I've heard people taking the good old EJ22e and adding some

metal to the block to make it a closed deck affair, dose anybody know of any
places that do this and/or costs? I would really like to build an engine of the span of the next year...i need a new project badly
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Old 05-17-2005, 02:30 PM   #2
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The ej22t is already a closed-deck engine.
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Old 05-17-2005, 04:39 PM   #3
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Well... i know that the Ej22t is a closed deck engine. My question was about shops that added metal to EJ22E 's (you know, the n/a ej22, the one that my car has in it currently) to make them closed deck. I have heard this mentioned before and I was just wondering if it was a viable option in reguardes of cost and availablity... thanks for any info
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Old 05-17-2005, 05:33 PM   #4
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Personally....I wouldn't waste my time and money. Unless you're planning to run 20 psi or something on the stock ej22, the open block setup is the least of your worries.
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Old 05-17-2005, 05:53 PM   #5
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Well the thing is, i was thinking about the different options in engines for a swap. I'm not really wanting to go the way of the jdm wrx powerplant because of availability and the fact that you never really know what you're getting. So what I was thinking was building an engine, but with ej22t blocks becoming harder to find i was thinking about going with what I've got. The things that I'm sure you're refering to when you say "least of my worries" would be taken care of by way of aftermarket forged pistons, different heads, etc.. my real problem is that i want to be sure that my block is going to be worth the upgrades and not be flexing under the inherent stress...hence me wanting to have a closed deck engine. My ultimate goal is really something in the range of a WRX as far as power so I guess no, I wouldn't be using a lot of boost, but even the WRX powerplant is semi-closed!! What do you guys think? Is the open deck engine worth building and turboing (I'm sure that it could be done cheaper than getting my hands on a repuitable WRX engine) or is there any validety in having some metal added to the Ej22e? Thanks
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Old 05-17-2005, 06:53 PM   #6
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The wrx block is NOT semi-closed. Only the STi 2.5 block is semi-closed.

If all you're wanting is WRX power, you'll be fine. Don't even worry about it.
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Old 05-17-2005, 07:27 PM   #7
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really? so you think that an open deck ej22e with say forged pistons, better cams, and maybe some other aftermarket internals runing say 10 psi of boost would hold up? I know that they make piston and rod kits for the 2.2, and at around $500-600 dollars plus the cost of rebuilding and the other aforementioned parts, building my ej22e up to the 200-300hp (roughly in that range for power desired) range seems to be much cheaper (and more straightforward) than finding a repuitable wrx swap. This project is really in the information gathering stage and so I'm really thankfull the info

PS- thanks for the heads up on the apparently open deck ej20t, i never knew that, also what boost range woud be logical for a daily driven open deck with aftermarket forged internals with my desired hp range (assuming that that is realistic range)
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Old 05-17-2005, 10:30 PM   #8
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With forged goodies the open deck ej22 will be good for a 20psi daily driver.
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Old 05-17-2005, 11:07 PM   #9
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no crap? huh..well 20psi seems excessive and I wasn't really thinking anything that high....I was thinking that with the forged stuff and maybe an 8.0:1 compression ratio I could run 10psi average and maybe occassionally strech that to 15psi. I was really just worried about block stability, you dont think that the added pressure is going to damamge the ever fragile cylinders of the open deck ej?
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Old 05-18-2005, 12:27 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josh...just josh
no crap? huh..well 20psi seems excessive and I wasn't really thinking anything that high....I was thinking that with the forged stuff and maybe an 8.0:1 compression ratio I could run 10psi average and maybe occassionally strech that to 15psi. I was really just worried about block stability, you dont think that the added pressure is going to damamge the ever fragile cylinders of the open deck ej?


Fragile cylinder walls??? Who told you that one, must have been a honda or mitsu guy. I have never seen a broken clyinder on any subaru engine and only heard rumors of ovaling at extreme hp ~500. That engine will be fine at 10, 15 or even 20psi.
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Old 05-18-2005, 12:40 AM   #11
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thanks for the info man, so is the limiting factor when turboing an open deck subby just in the rods and pistons?... one more question though; say with some higher lift cams and some hardened racing valves, do you think that the stock heads would have enough flow for the 200-300hp range (hopefully nearer the latter....) or should I source some other heads? do you think the heads might even flow enough when stock for that?
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:12 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobie Steve
Fragile cylinder walls??? Who told you that one, must have been a honda or mitsu guy. I have never seen a broken clyinder on any subaru engine and only heard rumors of ovaling at extreme hp ~500. That engine will be fine at 10, 15 or even 20psi.
IIRC, way back when. Nathan @ txs had that problem. Open deck 2.5 L w pauter rods and ross pistons. Cylinder gave way, if I remember correctly.
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Old 05-18-2005, 03:37 AM   #13
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huh... i've heard a mixed bag of answers on this topic, the bottom line really is that more metal would prob. leave me more confident, are there any closed deck ej22t's or what was the other one...ej20g's out there? I've looked rather casually I'll admit, but I havent found anything really..are there any consistent ways to get one? I would like to get my hands on one before they come impossiable (god I cant spell) to find, but I guess if a WRX is open deck then it cant be too bad..i suppose that means that no one has the answer to the question of what shops make closed deck ej22e's
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Old 05-18-2005, 03:57 AM   #14
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I have heard of shops that make a open deck suby motor into a closed deck, but every one I have seen has cost as much as a new short block. So buying one makes no sense IMO.

There are lost of closed dec ej22ts subaru still sells and makes them. Forging up your open deck ej22 IMO is not worth it. You can buy a short block for about the same cost... maybe less.
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Old 05-18-2005, 04:10 AM   #15
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Subaru still makes them? well going by the fact that they charge $120 for an OEM steel rim I'm sure the short block costs a grand! well anyway thanks for the info guys..with every bit of knowlegde I come one step closer to subaru guruness
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Old 05-18-2005, 12:35 PM   #16
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You can buy a fully rebuilt ej22t from www.ccrengines.com for about $2500. That price does not include a core charge, so if you didn't have one, price would go up, but I don't know how much.

IMO, you're wanting to do a lot of "race" type stuff which is fine, but is really not worth the extra money for 200-300 hp. If you get an ej22t, leave the internals alone, spend the money on fuel, intercooler, and GOOD engine management. Subaru's get finickey when you start change internals. I have a friend that has gone through a motor build up, did a lot stuff, to the motor internally, and for reasons, which aren't really his fault, he's basically gone back to a stock ej22t setup.

He was running right around 10 psi on a stock internal ej22 n/a motor. He was however running with alcohol injection to control detonation/pre-ignition. He had thought he cooked a piston, but after tearing it down, the valve had burnt through or something like that.

So I will reitterate, don't worry about the bottom end so much. 200-300 hp on these motors is not worth going ape poopy about.
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:29 PM   #17
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Thanks for the reply man...I dont really want to do any "race" stuff really, I just want a reliable daily driver that is both stable, and can occasionaly but a camro moron in his place. I feel that 200-300hp would be enough for that. Although I'm still not sure bought the open deck's relaibilty I have a lot to go on now, thanks guys, you rock a huricane scorpion style
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Old 05-18-2005, 08:49 PM   #18
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Just curious why are you not bought on the open deck's reliability? Almost all engines are built this way now? I know plenty of WRX's making at least the power you're wanting, if not more, and they are just fine.
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Old 05-18-2005, 09:00 PM   #19
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I'm pretty sure that you can not get new 2.2 turbo blocks from subaru anymore....that's what i was told by my local dealer
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Old 05-19-2005, 01:16 PM   #20
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internals aside....is a wrx's block any stouter than my Ej22e's? or is an open deck an open deck? ..that brings back the thought that maybe with forged rods and low comp pistons my block could serve up the power reliably....damn, so much mixed answers....
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Old 05-19-2005, 01:25 PM   #21
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Talking

Here's the question that I should be asking! Has anyone out there sone this? I know that some guys out there have turboed the stock n/a ej22e with ho hum results....but what about with forged inards? has anyone done this? maybe if with a ej25, assuming that the block strength is close to the same, what results did you have? I'm starting to think that with the proper management......
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Old 05-19-2005, 01:37 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josh...just josh
internals aside....is a wrx's block any stouter than my Ej22e's? or is an open deck an open deck? ..that brings back the thought that maybe with forged rods and low comp pistons my block could serve up the power reliably....damn, so much mixed answers....
I would say the wrx block is stouter then the ej22e just because of the fact its a turbo motor and has, I belive, lower CR. Forged rods could be put in your motor and it would be a good turbo motor if you did that, stronger then the stock wrx blocks, but I dont think it is worth it. Unless you could do all the work yourself. If you can not do the build work yourself save the $2k+ it would cost you and buy a new ej257 STi motor for $1700 or a ej22t block for about the same cost.
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Old 05-19-2005, 01:49 PM   #23
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well the thing is, I'm have a decent background in mechanics and I'm a mechanical engineer in training...I was thinking that I would try to do the work myself. I think that I could prob. get away for like a grand if I did the work myself, may take some learning, but I think that it is something that I could do. Where can you get an ej257 for $1700? One of those jdm importers that basically tell you that they know nothing about the condition of the engine that they are selling you and that you're stuck with the potential turd if you buy it? I dont really want to go that route...if I'm going to buy an engine, it would have to be reputable
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Old 05-19-2005, 01:53 PM   #24
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Hmmm...
So since a semi closed deck is basically metal extending from the piston wall to the outsdie of the block only at the top portion, couldnt one simply shim an open deck to achieve same results? Results basically being the transfering of pressure through to the outer wall.
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Old 05-19-2005, 02:17 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flip C
Hmmm...
So since a semi closed deck is basically metal extending from the piston wall to the outsdie of the block only at the top portion, couldnt one simply shim an open deck to achieve same results? Results basically being the transfering of pressure through to the outer wall.
Yes, in theory, you could. I do not belive it to be that easy.
Quote:
Where can you get an ej257 for $1700?
New from any dealer in the USA. The ej257 is the 2.5 US STi block. For $1700 you get a full running short block.

Slapping forged pistons in your block is ~$500, ~$800 for rods, ~$200 for new bearings... add in assorted parts needed for putting a block back together. So for A few hundred more then the cost of a new subaru block you may beable to build yourself one. Know a good machine shop? Ever torn down and rebuild a motor before?
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