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Old 05-18-2005, 01:05 PM   #1
StuBeck
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Default 5-spd manual vs 6-spd manual

I'm still looking at cars (and yes, I think this is my fourth thread on it) and right now I'm between a Civic Si, Corolla XRS, and a Scion tC (the scion will probably get kicked out pretty quickly though.)

Anyways, the major differences between the Civic and Corlla seems to be the Corolla has 4 doors, 10 more hp, and a 6spd, while probably costing more in the end. The Civic has 2 doors, 10 hp less (but still enough for me) and a 5spd.

I've never driven a 6 speed, is it mainly a toy or does having another actual gear really help in everyday driving, or is it just really a toy? It seems like it could be useful...but also just another shift which may not be really useful. Thanks.
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:06 PM   #2
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I don't think they really add any more. I prefer a 5 speed.

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Old 05-18-2005, 01:07 PM   #3
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I prefer a 5 speed for autox. You can ride out 1st gear longer, without having to shift.
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:07 PM   #4
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about the hp thing... how much does each car weigh? hp/weight ratio is what you should be looking for. sorry, don't have an opinion on the transmission.
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:07 PM   #5
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6 speed is a toy. Increases your shifting and generally reduces gas mileage.
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:07 PM   #6
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I'd rather have a 5 speed if a comparible 6 speed has the exact same top gear ratio *cough*STi*cough*. Id rather have a 6 speed if the top gear is going to drop the RPMs at highway speed a little.
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:09 PM   #7
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after owning a toyota with the same engine/tranny as the corolla XRS, i'd say it needs a 7th gear.

1st and 2nd are WAY too tall, and 6th is at least as short as the 5spd that was in my impreza (both 1.8L engines, running at roughly 3000-3500rpm in top gear at ~70)...

2nd is good for a hair over 70, which isn't exactly conducive for not speeding if you plan on winding the engine up into it's powerband at all around town.
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:09 PM   #8
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Corolla XRS 6-spd: 170 at 7200, 127lb at 4200, 2650lbs
Civic Si 5-spd: 160 at 6800, 134lb at 5200, 2768lbs.

The main issue between the two cars is I can get the Civic for much less because they aren't selling them at all, and no one actually has a Corolla XRS because its a niche market...and I'm not too keen on buying a car I haven't driven.

Oh, and yes, it has the Celica engine, but 10 less hp so it actually makes torque...but yes, I would like to drive one before I buy it.
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:11 PM   #9
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TC > the others
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STR8OUT
TC > the others
cristian619
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:13 PM   #11
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Wow, I just looked at the torque of the tC...163 at 4k makes my pants tight. But its about 200 lbs overweight...bleh.
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:14 PM   #12
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When I was buying a car I test drove the xrs and the tc. I liked the torque the tc has, but I don't like the sunroof and hatch rattles it came with. If I had to do it all over again, I would buy the Civic Si.
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuBeck
Wow, I just looked at the torque of the tC...163 at 4k makes my pants tight. But its about 200 lbs overweight...bleh.
A riding lawnmower has more torque than that...
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuBeck
Wow, I just looked at the torque of the tC...163 at 4k makes my pants tight. But its about 200 lbs overweight...bleh.
TRD supercharger...
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:15 PM   #15
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i'd take the Si over the XRS.
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkirtBoy
TRD supercharger...
that's if it ever gets released. i think it's been delayed until fall 2005.
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:16 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcmomentum
A riding lawnmower has more torque than that...
First off, no it doesn't

The other vehicles I'm looking at are closer to 130 ft-lbs at 4500-5200...so 30 more is very nice.
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:17 PM   #18
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I would say it depends a lot on the torque and power curves of the engines. if the engine has a wide flat torque curve an extra gear won't help much; if its really peaky (narrow power and/or torque band) it will.
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:18 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuBeck
First off, no it doesn't

The other vehicles I'm looking at are closer to 130 ft-lbs at 4500-5200...so 30 more is very nice.
I think for me it's just plain greed. The STi doesn't feel like it's that fast anymore, so what's next?
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:20 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fliz
6 speed is a toy. Increases your shifting and generally increases gas mileage.
fixed.
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:20 PM   #21
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the revised engine in the corolla should hit it's torque peak around 3500-4000 as i recall, as opposed to 6800 like the celica.

oh, and DO NOT believe the posted MPG figures on any toyota with that 2ZZ engine in it. if you drive it hard AT ALL, you're in the 21-22MPG range. just speaking from 'sperience.
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:20 PM   #22
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Having both a 6MT and 5MT, I prefer the 6MT for street driving.

But that may be entirely due to the crappy spacing/syncros of the WRX vs a quality Getrag 6MT.

I'm a firm believer in not hammering a car before the oil reaches its normal operating temp (this may be why I put 180,000 miles on a G60 Corrado and never had to replace the supercharger). The closer ratios of the 6 allow me to accelerate faster when the engine is cold without winding it out or going deep into the boost.
This wouldn't matter at all if I lived in the boonies, but in SoCal morning commuter traffic, you end up merging into traffic or on a freeway onramp before the engine's warmed up.
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:21 PM   #23
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I'm a big fan of the 6MT in my g/f's MCS. It is really nice for 75 on the highway, while keeping the ratios pretty close otherwise. My RS could use a 6th gear. I'm at about 3300 rpm doing 75 on the highway. I would really enjoy a slightly shorter 5th and a 6th that puts me at 2900 rpm @ 75mph.

~~Quentin

edit: Jinx on Coati!
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:21 PM   #24
StuBeck
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Yea, I know what you mean. That is what made me nervous when I was test driving Civic LX's and EX's and thinking they're slow when I'm currently driving an 89 auto corolla which may be making 60 hp I just want something which will last me for a long time and be fast enough to get out of its own way, sporty enough to be fun to drive...and cheap enough to maintain that I can eventually afford to do work on it.
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Old 05-18-2005, 01:22 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuBeck
Yea, I know what you mean. That is what made me nervous when I was test driving Civic LX's and EX's and thinking they're slow when I'm currently driving an 89 auto corolla which may be making 60 hp I just want something which will last me for a long time and be fast enough to get out of its own way, sporty enough to be fun to drive...and cheap enough to maintain that I can eventually afford to do work on it.
I know what you mean too. The problem is, I don't think I'll ever have something that is "fast enough" for me.
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