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Old 05-19-2005, 12:50 PM   #1
sponaugle
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Default Changing the stock map sensor, new EcuTek values..

As many of your are already aware, the stock MAP sensor in the WRX and STI reaches it's desgin limits at about 22psi. While the UTEC reads this sensor up to 24psi, it is not very accurate above 22psi.

When using the deltadash for logging, the protocol limits the absolute pressure to 36.2psi (22psi). Internally, the map values appear to be usable at much larger values, but only if the map scalling can be adjusted.

So, what happens when you wire in a different sensor? It depends. If you wire in a GM 3bar sensor, there isn't a noticable difference in the cars operation, as long as you are not using the stockk boost control.

If you use a larger range sensor, such as the TurboXS 4.5 bar sensor, things change. I installed said 4.5bar sensor, and as soon as I switch to this sensor, the car has a slight problem with starting. It still starts, but it is not nearly as quick. After lots of datalogging during startup, it appears that the ECU uses the MAP referencec values during cranking for baseline fueling. I suspect his might be due to lack of resolution on the MAF sensor at such low air flows (200-300 rpm). Switching back to the stock sensor clears the problem right up.

This problem doesn't seem to occur with the GM sensor, most likly because the GM sensor is much closer to the range of the stock one.

However, there is good news on this front. EcuTek just released an update that allows us to change the MAP sensor scaling, which allows us to recalilbrate the ECU to what ever map sensor you have. I did this, and things run great. Stock boost cut works great even at 2.0 bar, stock boost control, and map and temp comps all work as expected.

I also rescalled things in the UTEC, and now I can correctly tune up to 30+psi with great resolution. If you are running >22psi of boost, you need to look into this.

As an alternative, you can wire the 4.5 bar sensor directly to the UTEC, and keep the stock sensor going to the ECU..... but that has some complications with the FCD.

More to come, but I thought this might be of interest for those high HP guys.

Jeff Sponaugle
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Old 05-19-2005, 01:12 PM   #2
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Very cool!

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
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Old 05-19-2005, 01:20 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiftsWRX
Very cool!

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com
Probably the best feature is the use of the stock boost control at high levels. The stock system is pretty darn good, even at 1.5-1.6 bar. It helps to adjust the integration values, but with that done, it works very well.

After doing this, I'm convinced everyone running above 22psi should do the same, especially with the UTEC, since it uses MAP for Load reference in the user tune maps.

Jeff
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Old 05-19-2005, 02:28 PM   #4
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as always, thanks for the useful info jeff.

-ken
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Old 05-19-2005, 03:13 PM   #5
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Ditto ^^^^
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Old 05-19-2005, 07:24 PM   #6
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sponaugle
Probably the best feature is the use of the stock boost control at high levels. The stock system is pretty darn good, even at 1.5-1.6 bar. It helps to adjust the integration values, but with that done, it works very well.

After doing this, I'm convinced everyone running above 22psi should do the same, especially with the UTEC, since it uses MAP for Load reference in the user tune maps.

Jeff
Jeff,

I am glad to see that other people are starting to realize the power potential of the stock Subaru ECU.

Cheers,
William T. Knose Jr.
Lead Programmer
I-Speed USA
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Old 05-20-2005, 12:57 PM   #7
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Nice work Jeff. I had asked EcuTek some time ago if the could find these maps but never heard back. We instead ran the GM 3 bar in combination with the stock MAP sensor. One feeding the stock ECU (which is reflashed anyway) and one feeding the UTEC. We then recalibrated the UTEC MAP settings and all was good. Being able to just drop a new MAP sensor in sure would be easier, cleaner, and more efficient. Glad to see they came thru. Thanks for the info.

Mike
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Old 05-20-2005, 01:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skywalker
Jeff,

I am glad to see that other people are starting to realize the power potential of the stock Subaru ECU.

Cheers,
William T. Knose Jr.
Lead Programmer
I-Speed USA
Hey Bill,

Yea, the stock ECU has lots of potential withing the limits of what it can see! I'd love to hear your comments on another thread I just started:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...21#post9852421


Cheers,

Jeff Sponaugle
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Old 05-20-2005, 01:18 PM   #9
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingpin
Nice work Jeff. I had asked EcuTek some time ago if the could find these maps but never heard back. We instead ran the GM 3 bar in combination with the stock MAP sensor. One feeding the stock ECU (which is reflashed anyway) and one feeding the UTEC. We then recalibrated the UTEC MAP settings and all was good. Being able to just drop a new MAP sensor in sure would be easier, cleaner, and more efficient. Glad to see they came thru. Thanks for the info.

Mike
Hey Mike,

Yea, this is just for the WRX and JDM ecus right now, but I'm sure EcuTek can expose the same values for the US STI ECUs. It is kinda funny but there are three maps in the ECU for the sensor.. not sure why.. perhaps future expansion to have more then one map sensor?

Cheers!

Jeff
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Old 05-20-2005, 02:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sponaugle
Hey Mike,

Yea, this is just for the WRX and JDM ecus right now, but I'm sure EcuTek can expose the same values for the US STI ECUs. It is kinda funny but there are three maps in the ECU for the sensor.. not sure why.. perhaps future expansion to have more then one map sensor?

Cheers!

Jeff
It's probobly for the same reason that Denso has a lot of repetition of maps. They spec'd it to have support for quite a few different scenarios that you will typically never see in a production car. I.E. Idle tables, etc. Let's be honest.. the majority of that data you typically modify in a very linear fashion across 4-5 tables.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
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Old 05-20-2005, 03:14 PM   #11
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Hey Jeff,

Yeah they sent the maps over this morning. Looks like they added some more new beta features as well. We have run it the other way on both the 02 and 04 versions. This sure will make it easier on the earlier cars tho. Thanks for bringing this to light.

M
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Old 05-20-2005, 03:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingpin
Hey Jeff,

Yeah they sent the maps over this morning. Looks like they added some more new beta features as well. We have run it the other way on both the 02 and 04 versions. This sure will make it easier on the earlier cars tho. Thanks for bringing this to light.

M
Yea, TGV disable is one of them! Sweet!

Jeff
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Old 05-20-2005, 06:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXTuning
Yea, TGV disable is one of them! Sweet!

Jeff
Rat Farts!!! I just got my car tuned and Clark said he coudn't do that with EcuTek. Maybe if/when I go back to Phoenix, he'll hook a brother up.
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Old 05-20-2005, 06:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber
Rat Farts!!! I just got my car tuned and Clark said he coudn't do that with EcuTek. Maybe if/when I go back to Phoenix, he'll hook a brother up.

Yes, this just came out in beta, and I havn't gotten the TGV delete fully working yet. I'll give Clark a call and let him know what we have figured out.

Cheers!

Jeff

Last edited by PDXTuning; 05-20-2005 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 05-23-2005, 10:34 AM   #15
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SWEET! I've got one customer that the TGV delete map is an absolute lifesaver (court thing).

SS
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Old 05-31-2005, 12:31 AM   #16
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What does it take to scale the UTEC for a new MAP sensor?
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Old 05-31-2005, 07:42 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LotusDrift
What does it take to scale the UTEC for a new MAP sensor?
a laptop?

haha.

thx for the info, jeff!
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Old 08-20-2005, 12:52 PM   #18
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If you plan to keep the stock MAP for the stock ECU, and use the TXS 4.5 bar for the UTEC, what do you do to get the UTEC to recognize the latter, instead of the stock one?
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Old 08-20-2005, 01:46 PM   #19
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Hey Jeff can you give us a little write up on:

1. The use of a GM 3 bar sensor in place of the stock with UTEC. What is the P/N on the sensor? Is the sensor installed in place of the stock one? What wire work has to be done to splice the GM sensor into the OEM harness? What settings need to be adjusted at the UTEC for scaling of the new sensor? This would probably be the most useful for 99% of the home-brew tuners.

2. The use of either the GM 3 bar or Turbo XS 4.5 bar with the stocker left in place. Where is the sensor installed? What modifications need to be done to wire in the sensor to the UTEC? What settings need to be adjusted at the UTEC (same as above)? The last 1%.

I know what I'm asking has no $ in it for you guys but it would be a great aid to myself and the community.

Thanks.
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Old 08-20-2005, 02:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StiDreams
I know what I'm asking has no $ in it for you guys but it would be a great aid to myself and the community.
Thanks.
Plus, I bought my sensor from PDX.
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Old 08-20-2005, 04:07 PM   #21
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you will likely have to modify the harness connections into the utec to splice in the 4.5bar sensor.
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Old 08-21-2005, 03:47 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000
you will likely have to modify the harness connections into the utec to splice in the 4.5bar sensor.
Would that be any different than splicing into the MAP sensor at the manifold, though, since the UTEC intercepts the stock harness?




edit: found a little more info
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ght=map+sensor

Last edited by TyranosaurusWRX; 08-21-2005 at 04:07 AM.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:23 AM   #23
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Will the GM MAP sensor fit right where the stock one lives?

What about the adjustments in the UTEC?

Or do I just have to remember the scaling factor and multiply by 1.2 when I look at boost in my log and max boost in my parameters?

I was hoping that there would be more information in this thread by now. Bumping it for the answers.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:46 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StiDreams
Hey Jeff can you give us a little write up on:

1. What is the P/N on the sensor?

Thanks.
GM 3bar MAP P/N 12223861.

TMS
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Old 08-23-2005, 12:57 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TyranosaurusWRX
If you plan to keep the stock MAP for the stock ECU, and use the TXS 4.5 bar for the UTEC, what do you do to get the UTEC to recognize the latter, instead of the stock one?

If you want the UTEC to see the TXS boost sensor, and the stock ECU to see the stock sensor, you would have to wire it that way.

You would have to run new wires from the engine bay to the ECU location, and splice these new wires into the UTEC, and run the stock wires direct to the ECU. However, with the UTEC out of the stock sensor loop, you will no longer have FCD protection. (Thus without a reflash, you could hit boost cut).

Jeff
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