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Old 05-20-2005, 02:22 PM   #1
zasy99
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Default Questions regarding first mods on an 05 STI.

OK, here are my thoughts on first mods for my 05 STI, I did read all the FAQ's (thanks Unibomber) and other info I could find but still had a few questions nonetheless.

Here is what I intend to purchase in the next few days.

1. TurboXS TI RFL Turboback Exhaust.
I understand it comes with a high-flow cat in the mid-pip, would it be of any benefit to get the catless race-pipe or would the race pipe only be beneficial later on with other performance mods? Also, would there be a problem with the CEL, I am thinking no if the catless race pipe is not used due to the presence of the high-flow cat.

2. TurboXS Shorty (Short Ram Intake).
I initially was thinking of the APS CAI but even though APS says on their site that it has been designed to work with the STI and its stock ECU I am weary due to the number of posts regarding less than ideal experiences with CAI's on Subaru's. Would the TXS Short Ram Intake create a too lean condition in the engine?

Would I be correct in assuming that for the two above mods all that would be needed is an ECU reset?
The above mods would be done with the intention to do the following at a later time.

3. Install an APS DR725 FMIC.
I understand from the APS site that there is no need to modify the structural part of the vehicle other than trim some plastic from the inside of the front Bumper. But later on the installation diagram goes on to show something being cut out of the front bumper, I am not sure whether this is plastic or part of the beam as it looks like something significant. Calls to various vendors hasn't helped, some say that only trimming is neccesary, to what wasn't specified, others say that that it is best to get the JDM replacement bumper. Does anyone here have personal experience with the DR725 FMIC from APS and can set the record straight, it would be much appreciated. I am trying to avoid having to modify/replace the stock bumper beam due to insurance reasons. Also, the APS site states that their CAI is required due to the piping layout when using their FMIC. Is that true or would it still be possible to use the TurboXS Short Ram Intake?

4. TurboXS up-pipe.
Would this provide any gains in HP over the stock STI up-pipe.

5. APS FMIC BOV. The reason for choosing this BOV over others is that it would fit well with their FMIC (if I get the FMIC depending on whether or not the front bumper beam has to be modified/replaced).
Also, I understand it is a 50/50 BOV which is recommended over a 100% vent to atmosphere BOV, yes, I must admit that I want a BOV for the sound but i do not want to sacrifice performance hence the 50/50.

OK, that's it for now as far as performance mods questions were concerned, I see a bigger turbo in the future but that's far far off.
I will also do other mods like suspension, wheels etc...

Any suggestions/comments would be appreciated, I am new to all this and my expertise isn't with cars, not yet anyway, maybe that'll change if I hang around these boards long enough
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Old 05-20-2005, 02:29 PM   #2
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Are you planning on getting a bigger turbo as well?
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Old 05-20-2005, 02:53 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdogg3kgt
Are you planning on getting a bigger turbo as well?
Yes I would be sometime in the future, later rather than sooner. I was also thinking of going with APS for the Turbo, maye the SR40 or SR55 but I honestly haven't done any research on a new turbo or given it much thought.
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Old 05-20-2005, 03:02 PM   #4
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i would recommend a UTEC or other EM...

you can normally gaing 30-45whp on a stock sti with tuning depending on the dyno..

downpipe, turboback would be my next steps.

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Old 05-20-2005, 03:03 PM   #5
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I am going with SS brake lines as my first mod.
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Old 05-20-2005, 03:07 PM   #6
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+1 for EM, and forget about the TXS up-pipe, the stock STi pipe should be sufficient.
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Old 05-20-2005, 03:30 PM   #7
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If it were up to me, I would get engine management and gut the back two cats if you want to go catless. No use buying an expensive exhaust IMO, gutting the stock exhaust will give you most of the benifits at about $0 costs.

I would avoid the BOV and FMIC, no use spending money on upgrades that have questionable benifits, especially at power levels near stock.
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Old 05-20-2005, 03:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corn-Picker
If it were up to me, I would get engine management and gut the back two cats if you want to go catless. No use buying an expensive exhaust IMO, gutting the stock exhaust will give you most of the benifits at about $0 costs.

I would avoid the BOV and FMIC, no use spending money on upgrades that have questionable benifits, especially at power levels near stock.
The stock parts I am replacing i would like to keep, for whatever reason, selling the vehicle, passing state regulations, whatever... so gutting the stock exhaust would not be an option, I was aware of that possibility and I don't mind spending money on a decent exhaust.

I listed the BOV and FMIC as 'future' upgrades which, when done together, maybe even with a turbo would probably give decent gains over and in addition to the Turboback Exhaust, Intake and Engine Management I would most likely have in place by that time.
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Old 05-20-2005, 03:48 PM   #9
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The turboback is great, but LOUD
The intake is great. Try to make a heatshield for it
The FMIC is useless without engine management to tune for it.
There is ABSOLUTELY no difference between ANY catless up pipe performance wise
A BOV will harm performance regardless of 50/50 or 100%. There is a reason we tell people to stay with stock. The recirculation isnt the problem Its the leaking pressure. If performance is your goal, mod your stock bov and it will hold all the boost you will ever make and then some. If you cannot use the factory valve on that FMIC, then you need to start researching what the best aftermarket BOVs are, which will be VERY tough and 99% fruitless as they are pretty much all garbage, and most people that run aftermarket BOVs dont really know what they are talking about. Like how to properly determine if it is leaking some of the pressure. Basically what I discovered is this. You will need to spend most likely 350+ to buy a race quality valve (not "race quality" like HKS SSQ claims, or GFB's crap valve, but ACTUAL race quality. IE one that none of the vendors here would be advertising, but may be able to get.)
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Old 05-20-2005, 04:36 PM   #10
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Thanks a lot for the info guys.

Davenow, thanks for pointing out that specific information regarding the BOV's, I indeed thought that the reason they weren't recommended was due to the recirculation issue, I was until now oblivious to the 'leaking pressure' problem.
I chose that specific Turboback because I understand that while it is real loud at WOT it doesn't drive you mad by droning when you are cruising at highway speeds, I just hope that the sources of info on that aren't wrong as this is my daily driver vehicle.
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Old 05-20-2005, 04:39 PM   #11
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For the record, I went through easily 7-8 different aftermarket BOV's and they all had leakage issues. I tried 3 different GFB 50/50's and they all were blowing open a little by 7PSI... Complete garbage.
The best of the bunch by a mile was a TXS Type H (non rfl) which held 22PSI but had to be sprung hard enough to cause a decent amount of surge to not leak
Not only did the gfb 50/50's leak, but if sprung a little bit harder, they often failed to open at all.

The main problem is that 90% of people here dont KNOW that their aftermarket bov is leaking, because they think that just because they are making the same boost as before, that means it must not be leaking. However thats not how it works.
Your EM is looking to make a certain pressure. A small leak will not stop it from making that pressure, what it will do is force your turbo to work harder to make that pressure. Why is that bad? Because a harder working turbo is a less efficient turbo. Which means that now the 17PSI you are making, is actually producing less power than 16 PSI on the non leaking stocker would.



Oh and another thing, I have NEVER, not ONCE seen any BOV problems caused by venting 100% to atmosphere. I have however seen 4-5 cars at garage days that claimed to be having issues from that, I fixed the botched installs on all of these cars and they no longer had the problem. yes, there really are people too dumb to install a BOV

Last edited by Davenow; 05-20-2005 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 05-20-2005, 04:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zasy99
The stock parts I am replacing i would like to keep, for whatever reason, selling the vehicle, passing state regulations, whatever... so gutting the stock exhaust would not be an option, I was aware of that possibility and I don't mind spending money on a decent exhaust.

I listed the BOV and FMIC as 'future' upgrades which, when done together, maybe even with a turbo would probably give decent gains over and in addition to the Turboback Exhaust, Intake and Engine Management I would most likely have in place by that time.
You could get the stock exhaust from someone who doesn't care about keeping the stock exhaust. Probably all you would need to do is pay for shipping or pickup locally, and maybe buy the guy lunch. Just something to consider...
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Old 05-20-2005, 05:49 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corn-Picker
You could get the stock exhaust from someone who doesn't care about keeping the stock exhaust. Probably all you would need to do is pay for shipping or pickup locally, and maybe buy the guy lunch. Just something to consider...
You just love the stock exhaust don't ya
I do appreciate the input and your attempts at keeping my wallet nice and full, I would however hope that people not wanting their exhaust, be it stock or otherwise try and get something for it, sounds dumb, I know, it would mean putting me out of a free exhaust but they deserve to get something for it.
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Old 05-20-2005, 06:09 PM   #14
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In trying to answer my own questions regarding the APS DR725 FMIC I came across this:

http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/wr...fmi-r4/bom.htm
It looks to me like Item No. 13 is actually the mount for the FMIC which replaces the front bumper.

And:
http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/wr...I-R4A-MY03.htm
This would seem to indicate the front bumper beam being completely "removed and discarded" as stated.

Would I be correct in assuming that it therefore would actually compromise the structural integrity as far as the stock bumper beam does have to be removed and replaced with a 'less secure' FMIC mount?
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Old 05-22-2005, 10:22 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zasy99
In trying to answer my own questions regarding the APS DR725 FMIC I came across this:

http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/wr...fmi-r4/bom.htm
It looks to me like Item No. 13 is actually the mount for the FMIC which replaces the front bumper.

And:
http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/wr...I-R4A-MY03.htm
This would seem to indicate the front bumper beam being completely "removed and discarded" as stated.

Would I be correct in assuming that it therefore would actually compromise the structural integrity as far as the stock bumper beam does have to be removed and replaced with a 'less secure' FMIC mount?
Why do you need a larger intercooler? I know, Im trying to keep your wallet nice and full again Honestly I see no use for an FMIC, unless you're running an intake limited car (think WRC) or have a huge turbo. Be sure to do research on your turbos, I haven't seen people making anywhere near the advertised power on the SR series of turbos.

Yes, removing the front bumper beam would sacrafice some structural integrity. Rather or not this would matter above 5 mph I can't say. But, if you remove the front bumer beam and get in a 5 mph collision, you could lose several thousand in aftermarket (may not be covered by insurance) equipment.

Do you plan to auto-x? If so, that equipment will take you out of A-stock, and you'll never be competitive without thousands and thousands in more mods.

When I have extra money for my car it gets spent like this:
1. Pay off extra on car
2. Small mods, front sawy bar, gauges, etc...
3. Driving lessons
4. Competition only tires and rims

Just my 2 cents, its your car and your money, you can spend it however you want. However, remember that moding a car is an even worse investment than buying a car, you may lose your warranty, and if you have to file an insurance claim you may lose all your mod money.
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Old 05-22-2005, 12:15 PM   #16
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If returning the car to stock condition for eventual resale is a consideration, and it seems that it is, a FMIC is definitely NOT a good idea. It requires serious butchering. The benefits of a FMIC don't occur until you are around 100 mph. If you are planning on drag racing, you've picked a bad car.

I am in favor of a TBE, however. There are a number of them that don't produce objectionable sound levels and have better cats than stock. I have a friend who has a Cobb TBE and I think I'm going to go that route. It's a bit expensive, but the sound is comparable to a Porshe Cayenne turbo and there's no tinny resonance.
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Old 05-22-2005, 02:54 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBRD
i would recommend a UTEC or other EM...

you can normally gaing 30-45whp on a stock sti with tuning depending on the dyno..

downpipe, turboback would be my next steps.

chad b
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Is AccessPort considered EM? WHat kind of gains do people usually get from AP?
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Old 05-22-2005, 04:41 PM   #18
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AccessPort only (stage 1) is worth about 20hp.
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Old 05-22-2005, 06:52 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corn-Picker
I know, Im trying to keep your wallet nice and full again
Yes you are and I thank you for it.

OK, for starters, yesterday I ordered...
TurboXS Turboback exhaust with RFL-TI Muffler.
I got it with the high flow cat, reason being that I understand the HP lost is minimal and also the racepipe is louder, also, due to the cat I shouldn't have a problems with the CEL, if I decide it isn't attrociously loud I'll get the catless racepipe in the future when I do further mods that will benefit from it.

I got the Perrin Short Ram Intake. This was recommded to me instead of the TurboXS from the place where I bought it, apparently due to the piping included allowing it to be moved and placed easier in the engine bay (as its flexible). I know I'll be told that an air intake isn't necessary at this stage, no need to tell me, I've told myself off for this one

I got the STI Utec and also remote switcher as this will alone give me gains, it will also help with the above mentioned mods, the Vendor I got it will pre load it with a map for my mods.

I also went ahead and got the Goodridge SS brake lines because somehow I got into talking about brakes with the Vendor and he mentioned SS brake lines to get rid of that spongy feeling, I also did some research on this forum and found that they were a recommended upgrade.


OK, now, back to the FMIC discussion, to make Corn-Picker happy I'll go without it for now (just kidding, not just for you CP but also my wallet).
Seriously though, I will get one but not any time soon, if I do get one it'll probably be with other supporting mods and a bigger turbo, would make sense to do that all at once.
I called Progressive insurance about the FMIC, they had no idea what I was talking about, I tried to present them with a hypothetical scenario asking what would be there stance on a crash with an FMIC. After talking to half a dozen people I ended up talking to a claims officer who also didn't know, he went to speak with his manager, after he came back he said that he was not permitted to answer my question in case I had already been in an accident and was looking to somehow manipulate the situation, argh, how ridiculous
Progressive gives you $1000 of extra coverage for mods of any kind free with your premium, you can add a maximum of $5000 of coverage for approximately $100 in addition to your premium, that's for 6 months, not bad. If you go over the $5000 and you want to cover it you have to go onto a special plan and things start getting expensive.

Anyway, there are more pertinent mods to do beforehand like suspension.
I am looking into sway bars at the moment, am just kinda at a stalemate at the moment as to which to choose because so many people are having problems with clunking noises after installing them (perrin, hotchkis), it seems to be the end-links, not quite sure, need to do some more research.
I am tending toward the cusco front and rear sway bars and also strut braces. For the sway bars I would also need to get end-links, I am currently looking for some compatible ones that won't cause problems, any ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balr14
If returning the car to stock condition for eventual resale is a consideration, and it seems that it is, a FMIC is definitely NOT a good idea. It requires serious butchering.
I am most likely going to get new wheels and a full body kit before doing the whole FMIC/Turbo thing, that way, any cutting to the front bumper would be to the new one, not the stock, also, most FMIC's, the two I would consider, APS and TurboXS both come with their own FMIC mount which replaces the stock one, this way there is basically no 'butchering' to the vehicle.

I actually don't think I would sell this car, to be honest, it might be the case that we move to South America (Chile) in a few years, in that case I would take it with me, especially with all the money and effort I will have put into it by then. There would also be some great areas down there to do some rallying.
This is where Corn-Pickers advice of using the extra money to pay off the car comes in. He is indeed correct, it is good advice, not only that, to take the car out of the country it is absolutely necessary to have paid it off first, that's a requirement.
Auto-X, I don't think so, that wasn't something I had planned on.

Anyway, guys, thanks for all your input, its been much appreciated and a good discussion. I am in no way opposed to any of the suggestions posted, I actually agree, just that my desire to upgrade the vehicle is also burning strong within me

Have a great day folks...
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Old 05-22-2005, 08:35 PM   #20
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I hear the AP is the "gateway drug" to other forms of EM.......You may want to look further for your STi.
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Old 05-22-2005, 10:24 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1wrxsw
I hear the AP is the "gateway drug" to other forms of EM.......You may want to look further for your STi.
Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "gateway drug" in this context, can you please elaborate.
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Old 05-22-2005, 11:25 PM   #22
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I think what he means is everyone starts out thinking an AP is the hot ticket, but they realize it's shortcomings before long and move up to something more substantial.
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Old 05-23-2005, 07:37 PM   #23
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Why is the STI not a good choice for drag racing?
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Old 05-23-2005, 09:46 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Pauk
Why is the STI not a good choice for drag racing?
Because old F-bodies are much cheaper than new STis, and old F-bodies will make more power easily for less money than an STi will. AWD cars, or rather their transmissions, do not like clutch drops on tarmac. The STi tranny is about bulletproof though, I haven't heard of anyone breaking one.

Cars are tools. I wouldn't use my STi to tow a boat, I would use a truck. If I wanted to run the 1/4, I'd buy an F-body or Grand National. If I want to carve corners at auto-x's on weekends, have four seats for weekday cruising, and have AWD for winter, then I'd buy an STi, which is what I did Even my usees are underutilizing the STi. The STi was designed for the track, and by not taking it there I'm wasting some of its potential. When the STi hits 100,000 miles and isn't my daily driver, then I'll think about taking it to the track.
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Old 05-23-2005, 10:11 PM   #25
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^ ^Yup, what he said.^ ^
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