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Old 10-14-2005, 10:42 AM   #26
mbtoloczko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber
Flywheel FAQ

How does a lightweight flywheel improve performance? A transmission can be thought of as a fulcrum and lever in a car. First gear has a really long lever; second gear has a shorter lever, etc. The lever represents the mechanical advantage that gears give your vehicle. When your car is moving, you have two factors that are present during acceleration, one is driveline losses, which are constant and the variable, which is vehicle weight and the mechanical advantage supplied by each gear. While changing to a lighter flywheel will give the user little to no changes on a dyno, the apparent changes are quite dramatic due to the greater mechanical advantage. ...
Appreciate the FAQ. Would like to improve its technical accuracy. A lighter flywheel doesn't actually increase "mechanical" advantage. Its better to say that a lighter flywheel requires less energy to make it spin. That energy then goes to making the wheels accelerate more quickly. The extra energy is most apparent in 1st gear because 1st gear has the greatest mechanical advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber
Flywheel FAQ

How much will a lightweight flywheel affect my car's performance? This Excel document will allow you to find out for your WRX or STi application.
Predictions in the worksheet match what I've calculated, but the bar chart at the bottom of the WRX and the STi worksheets is actually the result for the "BMW" example in the third worksheet. It looks like it was copied over without adjusting the source data.
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Old 10-22-2005, 05:04 AM   #27
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I have a JDM Forester Transmission and with in a shore time it went, it was used but i was wondering are any of the clutch kit universal to fit with a JDM Forester transmission, i have a 02 WRX mounted to the transmission
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Old 10-31-2005, 05:03 PM   #28
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An sti has 2 cam position sensors? say i put an sti 6 speed tranny on my car, wouldnt that conflict with my 1 cam position sensor wrx?

Is there a safe weight for a lightned flywheel? i have read throughout that 14lbs "is safe"

Why would STI sell a flywheel that THEY KNOW will throw such a vital CEL? is there something that they're not telling us?
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Old 11-01-2005, 06:18 AM   #29
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No conflict as the CPS has nothing to do with the tranny. Now if you did do what you are thinking/talking about, it would be an interesting test to see if you used a lightweight flywheel in your car to see if you got a CEL or not. The 2 CPS/STi/No CEL vs 1CPS/WRX/CEL with a lightweight flywheel is just a theory.

There is no safe weight as car A responds well to flywheel A and car B throws a CEL with the exact same flywheel.

The CEL is NOT vital. All it is, is an annoyance. You can drive normally with that "missfire" CEL and be fine. It isn't one that puts your car into limp mode or anything.
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Old 11-01-2005, 09:18 AM   #30
SILVERHKSWRX
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all the FAQ's you post are strongly backed by knowledge, The 2 CPS/STi/No CEL vs 1CPS/WRX/CEL with a lightweight flywheel sounds logical to me. now say, if gears get changed i would assume the weight difference of the gears could be a factor in rotational mass. the type-ra gear set SEEMS heavier than the normal wrx gear set. but wouldnt that increase in weight in the gears, minus the weight in the flywheel(obviously the gearset wont weigh 10lbs more than the weight lost by the flywheel) still equal less rotational mass, but only when the gears are in motion?

it would also be an interesting test to see if the rotational mass throughout the entire drivetrain is a factor on the CEL aswell. it seems logical due to the fact that the cel is popping up during acceleration and decelaration.

is there also another way that the flywheel can weigh less but still exert the same amount of force? mabye not remove 10 lbs of materal, but remove material towards the center of the flywheel, causing the outer pieces to have more material which would create more inertia in turn creating more force which can be interperated as less rotational mass, but more force. correct? or am i understanding th physics of a flywheel incorrectly?
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Old 11-01-2005, 04:49 PM   #31
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i just went on subarureview.com and asked several people thier experiences with various lightned flywheels. this is one response:

"i did get one that translated as misfire on cylinder 1 & 2, but it was only once. when i first got it, i cleared it and it never happened again! I i will say i love it for auto x, and rev matching, but launching is a whole other story....
if you need any other info just let me know!
dan
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry
To: *****@*****.com
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 1:15 PM
Subject: act flywheel question


Have you had any issue with your act flywheel? meaning misfire CEL's?

Thanks!

Jerry"


(act streetlite)

Is this an issue that can be solved with a simple ecu reset? or can this go on a case by case basis?
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Old 11-02-2005, 01:20 AM   #32
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SILVERHKSWRX,

You are a sharp cookie and present equally interesting theories! There are in fact, flywheels on the market that specifically have holes/ports on the outer perimeter for the very reasons you mentioned. As to wether they are "heavier" on the inside and "lighter" on the outside and if this has an effect or not, I do not know. I believe that in theory though, if designed that way, it may help with the CEL issue. I can't be sure though. As to the streetlite question....you'd have to ask in a new thread as all my research points to different results with different people with different flywheels. The CEL is 100% harmless though and can be made to go away with an ECU reset.
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Old 11-02-2005, 03:01 AM   #33
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I think that where you take weight off of a flywheel is the most important factor. I haven't heard of anyone lightening the inside, because lightening the outside has the greatest effect(see Breaker Bar). If you took 10lbs off the center of flywheel A it would not have as great of an effect if you took 10lbs off the outer edge of flywheel B. Although both flywheels weigh the same, flywheel B has less rotational inertia, because the mass that keeps it turning in towards the inside of the flywheel and doesn't have a long enough theoretical lever to turn the crankshaft. Also, having a lightened center sort of scares me. I've heard enough horror stories of flywheels disentegrating and cutting through peoples legs.

Interesting idea about the RA gearset. That would be interesting if someone were to dyno their car before and after a flywheel install, and before and after a gearset install. The problem is most people end up doing some heavy modifing by the time the get a gearset.
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Old 11-02-2005, 09:16 AM   #34
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Unabomber, i spoke to a friend of mine (who just happens to be a physics major)and he said that the easiest way to understand rotation, is to watch figureskating ( i know...I know...) but there is much logic! when the skater spins, and her arms are spreadout, she spins slower due to the energy is able to be exerted in a larger surface area. now have tou seen what happens when she pulls her arms in towards her body? she spins much faster and has better control. the reason is due to the fact that the energy is more confined and concentrated therefore easier to control. that wouls explain why a lightned flywheel doesnt remove material from the inner rim.

Another HUGE factor... weight. he also explained if you get a 110lb figure skater and a 300lb plumber with equal ice skating skills, traveling at the same speed, when they go to spin, the 110lb woman would have the ability to spin faster, quicker while the plumber could reach the same speed, probably even more speed, but it would take a much longer time to get there.

That would explain your
"Using mathematics, one can realize that the higher you go up in gears, the less effect that a lightened flywheel will have to the overall equation."

That would also explain your statment on reducing driveline weight causing misfire CEL's.

if we could only turn the 300lb plumber into 2-150lb skaters.(disburse the weight into areas that would benefit...gearset, stronger driveshafts)

icantdrive75,

youre right, i havent read one person that has gone with a RA gearset that isnt already highly modified. that would also have a huge factor on the conclusion when you have extra horsepower involved.

Last edited by SILVERHKSWRX; 11-02-2005 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 11-02-2005, 09:27 AM   #35
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I just read (but now i cant find it.) someone had put a RWD center LSD and recieved the same CEL as when he changed to a lightned flywheel!

He cleared the original code and it never came back, until he installed the new LSD. he cleared this one again, and it hasn't come back...

he purchased from japanparts.com part# 9005-001-002
Watanabe Service DRIFT CENTER DIFF/ TYPE B $558.20

This goes back to my original theory... it COULD be as simple as an ECU reset...
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Old 11-02-2005, 10:02 AM   #36
icantdrive75
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Oh those things are rip offs. You can make your own really easily and really cheaply. Sorry for the hijack.
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Old 11-02-2005, 10:06 AM   #37
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I didnt buy one, i just thought the information would be beneficial on the possible weight issue. I was considering one, but will rebuild a broke tranny entirely. ra gears,mabye rwd conversion, flywheel, clutch everything and ill swap it out with the stock one. but first im weighing my options.
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Old 11-12-2005, 03:04 PM   #38
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I just had an ACT 4 puck installed. Any suggestions on how a clutch that grabs so hard and quick will affect the drive train. Such as the transmission, drive shafts, etc. Would an upgraded tranny and/or motor mounts be recommended to keep things from possibly breaking?
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Old 11-14-2005, 09:17 AM   #39
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From what i've heard, the torque is what actually causes drivetrain damage. Is it a sprung clutch or springless? the springs help with the ease of the clutch engangment, clutch judder, and helps with the sudden impact that a clutch naturally causes. clutch materials also play a role as well. read unibombers first post about clutch materials and it will help you choose what is best for you now, and current upgrades. a tranny upgrade would benefit regardless the reason-reliability or performance. It just costs quite a bit. RECCOMENDATION: if you change your tranny/gearset change your clutch/flywheel at the same time to save you money.
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Old 01-27-2006, 12:09 PM   #40
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Any reasons as to why STi's will not throw CEL's and WRX's will? I have heard the lowest weight you should go for driveability in a WRX is 14lbs. True?

I was thinking of getting a Exedy flywheel/organic clutch but not quite so sure anymore.
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Old 01-27-2006, 12:19 PM   #41
SILVERHKSWRX
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i do believe there is a post on theat issue. somethign with the dual cam positioning sensor. (wrx has one and sti has 2)

I also think there was an earlier post that some people w/ a wrx get a cel with a 14lb, and some dont. just as some get a cel with a 9lb and some dont. it is just that it seems the lower weight you go, the more your chances to get a cel.

I still find it ironis STI sell thier performance 13lb flywheel for the wrx. that can cause a cel.

THere whould be a poll to what type of flywheel you have and if you have a cel or not. i was hoping to get the ACT clutch/flywheel combo until i read this thread too.

good note though, the cel will not throw your car into limp mode. or have any adverse effects w/ the cel.
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Old 01-27-2006, 05:58 PM   #42
icantdrive75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizmal
Any reasons as to why STi's will not throw CEL's and WRX's will? I have heard the lowest weight you should go for driveability in a WRX is 14lbs. True?

I was thinking of getting a Exedy flywheel/organic clutch but not quite so sure anymore.

That's the combo I have and it works great. A little harder to launch at first, but you figure it out quickly. Now that I've got it down I want a lighter one. But I think this is as light as I'll go as long as I still wanna drag the car every now and then.
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Old 02-17-2006, 01:56 AM   #43
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what about 520 wtq i know the stock clutch will go quick, Need high clamping power with ability to drive my daughter to day care relatively smoothly.
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Old 02-17-2006, 08:48 AM   #44
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icantdrive75 did you get a CEL with that combo? may i ask the cost?

LIGHTNINGDRIVER-with that much horsepower, it will be hard to find a strong enough clutch that will provide smooth engagment. most high horsepower clutches i have dealt with on my se-r were stiff, and either it was engaged, or it wasnt. there was no middle ground. although it may differ from car to car, but i doubt it.
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Old 02-24-2006, 11:10 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIGHTNINGDRIVER
what about 520 wtq i know the stock clutch will go quick, Need high clamping power with ability to drive my daughter to day care relatively smoothly.
I hear good things about the Tilton carbon twin disk.
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Old 04-29-2006, 08:26 PM   #46
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:twothumbsup: for this info.

I'm doing a clutch and possible flywheel replace on a 115k mile 00 LeggyGT wagon asap.

Any opinions on the "move engine forward" vs remove tranny method?


It's seems obvious moving the engine seems like a lot less labor but moving the tranny seems like it may make the actual clutch replacement easier.

Can the flywheel also be replaced with the "move engine forward" method. I am pretty sure it can.

Sorry if this was mentioned. My brain is now getting a little crowded with this diy project.
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Old 04-30-2006, 02:30 PM   #47
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Default DIY dowel pin removal.

One n00b question first. TBE = ??



My contri to this thread.

If you have a drill press or a larger variable/low speed drill you can remove dowel pins fairly easy if you can get to one end that is exposed. If not then a arbor press may also do the trick.


With an exposed pin just chuck it in a drill press and use the drill press to rotate and pull out at the perfect right angle as needed. It should come right out. I've turned the chuck by hand if I can't get the dill press speed slow enough. A hand held drill will also do the trick because as it is being rotated it's not binding from an ackward angle. As a note because these pins are very hard so you really need to tighten the drill chuck as much as possible. To get it as tight as possible use all three chuck key positions vs just using one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by icantdrive75
hahaha good one.

Another note if I may. If you buy a flywheel and are planning on installing it yourself, I had a problem with the dowel pins. They were not included with the flywheel. I couldn't find them anywhere. If this happens to you, take your old flywheel to a machine shop. They should have a tool called a dowel pin puller(go figure) that can get them out in under 5 minutes. Its basically a slide hammer with a special fitting on the end. The machine shop I went to didn't even charge me. Then you just bang them in with a hammer.
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Old 04-30-2006, 02:42 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzo
One n00b question first. TBE = ??
Turbo Back Exhaust
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Old 04-30-2006, 02:51 PM   #49
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thanks.
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Old 04-30-2006, 03:20 PM   #50
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Just though I would add a little something to this....
I have a Cobb Stage 2 2004 WRX Wagon with an up-pipe and a Perrin LW Pulley. Just had an Exedy Stage 1 Clutch and LW FlyWheel installed.....I've driven 700 miles so far and no CELs with the LW pulley and FlyWheel combo.....
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