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Old 05-26-2005, 04:06 PM   #1
shipjumper
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Default EJ25 Phase I reliability

Is the phase I EJ25 block reliable? I have the oportunity to grab one for free. Short block only. Is it worth it to have it and drop my phase I EJ22 heads on it for a bit more displacment?

worth the trouble? Im not looking to go turbo, but just want a bit more grunt.
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Old 05-26-2005, 04:21 PM   #2
Storm
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Should be just fine for you. I'd check it over real close anyway before assembling just to be safe. Most warrantee blocks (if a dealer) are warranteed for a reason and "free" rapidly becomes real expensive if you skip a step....

my$.02
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Old 05-26-2005, 04:36 PM   #3
shipjumper
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Its not from a dealer, its from my friend, came out of a running car. He just has no need for it and its taking up space.

Would the CR increase with the phase I block and my EJ22 heads? Would there be any real benefit for me doing this?
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Old 05-26-2005, 07:23 PM   #4
Storm
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It sure will increase.....figure on it being close to 11:1 or even higher. Get all the crap gas out before you try making hard runs with it. You'll be stuck running 91 or better from now on. You will make good power for the money though.....

Everything should bolt right up to it too.....keeping the heads, manifold and sensors will eliminate any wiring trouble and you'll be wondering why you haven't done this a long time ago.


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Old 05-26-2005, 07:27 PM   #5
shipjumper
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Really? Where would I find resources for the variables on the CR, so I can get accurate numbers....

Im pretty sure I could have that motor out, heads swapped and back in and running in one weekend.

Makes me wonder what this would yield. Theres no other wiring shenanigans to worry about, huh? the Crank angle sensor is the same? The timing belt should be ok, im guessing.

any ideas? this could be a fun weekend project to cronicle in the swap forum!
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Old 05-26-2005, 11:07 PM   #6
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Put the t'belt tensioner from your 2.2 on the 2.5. It's slightly different being SOHC vs. DOHC. For CR calculations, try the conversion forums or the FAQs for some of scoobymods links on data collected over the years. Matt Monson may be able to shed some light on this too. Many folks have done this with no problems...... The sensors all line up the same and plug right in. Clutch/flywheel swap right over with no trouble, starter stays the same.....as well as the coolant lines, etc. You may have to finagle the TB coolant lines some for the right routing, but it shouldn't be a problem. Just make sure you hook them up as I believe you'll need them for your idle control, unlike the nice bypass mod for later EJ25's that keep the TB a little cooler in hot weather.

Yeah, this is definately a weekend project if you have new EJ25 headgaskets and main seals ready to put in......you will be changing the seals right.....[hint-hint].

Good luck and have fun! It'll be a great little boost in power when you're done!

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Old 05-26-2005, 11:39 PM   #7
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I was thinking T-belt, head gaskets, and thats all, but its a good idea to do the main seal in the back, huh?

OK. I was thinknig gonig from 9.2 CR to 11.1 (est) would yield better than a "small" bump in power...

sounds like pretty much a bolt up affair... The ECM doesnt see any issues, or need any tweeking? I have the injectors from my EJ22G hanging around... that probally wont do a thing... Whats the largest OEM throttlebody subaru has that will fit...
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Old 05-26-2005, 11:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shipjumper
I was thinking T-belt, head gaskets, and thats all, but its a good idea to do the main seal in the back, huh?

OK. I was thinknig gonig from 9.2 CR to 11.1 (est) would yield better than a "small" bump in power...

sounds like pretty much a bolt up affair... The ECM doesnt see any issues, or need any tweeking? I have the injectors from my EJ22G hanging around... that probally wont do a thing... Whats the largest OEM throttlebody subaru has that will fit...
Definately do both front and rear seals. Might be a good idea to take the oil pump off and check the rear plate for loose screws and retorque them with some loctite. Make sure you get the EJ25 gaskets since the pistons extend from the block on phase I motors and you'll be hating life if you use EJ22 gaskets. Oh yeah....use an RS clutch if you can get one cheap. At least the pressure plate anyway.

The bump in CR plus the bump from displacement will cramp your jaws from smiling! Especially in that lightassed wagon!

The ECU should be just fine with everything. There's enough headroom in the programming to run CEL free. If you have misfires when you lay into it and you know you have good gas...try crimping the return fuel line slightly to bump the pressure. If that cures the misfires, you may wanna look into bigger injectors or just an adjustable FPR to keep the pressure a little higher than stock to keep your ECU happy.

Once you're done with this....think about the brakes......You're going to be outdriving the brakes with the extra capability of the car. You won't need a bigger TB....yours is already plenty big enough. Feel free to PM me or email me if you have any questions or run into any problems.

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Old 05-27-2005, 09:20 AM   #9
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misfires = GOOD gas? hmmm. Logic I do not see young skywalker!

anyhoo. I was thinknig of doing my famous parallel double fuel line and return with double pressure regulators. Basically, I get another return fuel rail from the right side, and drop it on the left side, tee off the fuel in and out, and poof! no more lean on cyl 3 issue.

I guess its good I still have the injectors from my legacy turbo hanging around! Might need em!
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Old 05-27-2005, 09:33 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shipjumper
misfires = GOOD gas? hmmm. Logic I do not see young skywalker!

anyhoo. I was thinknig of doing my famous parallel double fuel line and return with double pressure regulators. Basically, I get another return fuel rail from the right side, and drop it on the left side, tee off the fuel in and out, and poof! no more lean on cyl 3 issue.

I guess its good I still have the injectors from my legacy turbo hanging around! Might need em!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm
If you have misfires when you lay into it and you know you have good gas...try crimping the return fuel line slightly to bump the pressure.
I mean if you know the gas is good, but you still misfire when laying into it hard....you know you're not getting enough fuel and need either bigger injectors or higher pressure.

I wouldn't bother with the double parallel fuel deliery mod. I really don't think it's worth it.....A simple AFPR with dual inlets and single outlet is all you need to bump the pressure and keep even fueling.


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Old 05-27-2005, 09:56 AM   #11
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Hmmm... When my father and I built up the EJ22G to drop into the 91 legacy turbo I had, we did the mod just because I hear nightmares about low fuel on Cyl3, and even though the EJ22Gs are bullet proof and closed deck, I did not want to take chances.

Whats a good FPR to get? I never looked at them, but I do know that they might be a pain to install!
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Old 05-27-2005, 10:21 AM   #12
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Check the block for piston slap, it is fairly common in the Phase I.
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Old 05-27-2005, 11:02 AM   #13
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what would that be evident of, cyl wall scarring? please explain.
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Old 05-27-2005, 11:05 AM   #14
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The pistons can actually move side to side if you jiggle them with your hand. All four of mine are like that in teh Legacy. Thick oil helps. The motor will run like that for a good long time so it is not a show stopper, depending on your plans to use/keep the car.
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Old 05-27-2005, 11:15 AM   #15
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ill check. I remember seeing that when I worked on outboards, those 2strokers were like that too.

I know that its a common thing, but is it a "bad" thing? I usually run my motors hard, full revs and all. Im guessing that slap wouldnt be the best thing, but how detrimental will it be?
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Old 05-27-2005, 12:41 PM   #16
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I've built two of these engines. They are good cheap little sources of power. CR is actually 10.7:1. I ran the numbers myself. Runs fine on premium and you can actually get away with 89 if you have access to it. Everything from the top end of your '96 will swap right over. Treat it as if you have blown your 2.2l and are just replacing the block with a stock one. It is that straightforward. Just be sure to use the thicker HG for a phase I engine. Thin gaskets will cause valve to piston issues.

If you have $150 in the bank, send your cams out to Delta for a regrind while the car is down. They have 1 day turn around, so you will be without a car for a working week. This will net you another 12-15hp. We figure with the cams, and full exhaust, intake and the engine, it is right around 200chp. In Diz's 2600lb 94l wagon, it feels about as fast as my RS was when I was at 205hp...
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Old 05-27-2005, 01:04 PM   #17
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Whats the site, PH#, etc for delta? I wont be doing that now, but maybe down the road.... maybe ill pick some up from the bone yard. A set of heads for this car should be cheap, and I can rework em at my lesure.

What exhaust can oyu do to this thing with one exhaust port on these heads?

So far I will need front and rear crank seals, a T-belt, Head Gaskets, and thats all! Sounds like a fun sat-sun project....
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Old 05-27-2005, 07:56 PM   #18
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Borla makes a header for it.

Do a search in the NA forum for a thread called "high compression Frankenstein". You will find Delta's number and all that you need to research this swap...
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Old 05-27-2005, 08:28 PM   #19
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sweet, thanks!
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