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Old 05-10-2001, 01:31 PM   #1
DammitBevis
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Post Learning to Double Clutch

I'm getting upset with myself. I KNOW the mechanics of double clutching, but I can't MAKE myself do it. My shifting is so instinctive that I can't seem to force a change, it's a weird feeling when you mean to do one thing, but your body does something different, like an involuntary movement. I've tried making it into two steps, like a shift to neutral, then to the next gear, but it takes too long and the revs are way off. When I try to do it faster, my arm tries to throw it into gear while the clutch is out(grind!), I know this sounds stupid, but it's true. Can anybody offer some advice?
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Old 05-10-2001, 01:37 PM   #2
RacerinLSL
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Well first of all, to properly do this, you have to let the clutch out in neutral, so you're on the right track there.
2nd - My neighbor who taught me how to drive also taught me how to double-clutch among other things, when I was 16. He had me sit in the car with the car off and practice this.

The problem is co-ordination, and simple practice will make it better. Sit in the car and simulate double-clutch downshifts with the car off. Then when you feel comfortable with the movements, go driving!!! It worked for me. I also had trouble at first.

Good luck,

Chad
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Old 05-10-2001, 02:07 PM   #3
alexs001
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Maybe I'm really dense, but if someone could explain the benefit of double clutching, I would be very happy.

Thanks
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Old 05-10-2001, 02:13 PM   #4
RacerinLSL
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1) By double-clutching when downshifting, you can quickly let out the clutch to allow the gearing to help slow you down. If you did not match your revs before downshifting, you'll upset the car when you quickly release the clutch and the revs shoot up while the flywheel trys to catch up and the clutch is trying to grab.

2) Lets say your entering a hard turn and you need to be in a different gear upon exit. While braking, you double-clutch to the appropriate gear, then you can immediately get on the gas when appropriate. This is great for auto-xing b/c it keeps you from coasting through the apex of turns and you can exit much quicker.

Chad
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Old 05-10-2001, 02:15 PM   #5
Uncle Git
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Surely heel and toe shifting will do much the same thing - plus it keeps the car up the rev range while not unbalancing it during shifting ...

thoughts ?

Git - he who heels and toes everywhere he goes.
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Old 05-10-2001, 02:34 PM   #6
Danny5
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Heal/Toe matches engine revs to your speed, but it lets the syncro do the work of speeding up the input shaft to the appropriate speed.

Double clutching lets the engine spin up the input shaft, therefore transmitting very little shock to they syncro.

Get it?

-Dan
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Old 05-10-2001, 02:38 PM   #7
mhj
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...not to mention double clutching will get you used to shifting that way for when you get your full dog boxes
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Old 05-10-2001, 03:12 PM   #8
D
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Wouldn't a proper heel-toe work even without synchros? It's probably much easier to match the revs w/ double clutch, but you're in essence doing the same thing when heel-toe'ing as well... trying to match revs. In double clutch downshifts, you still need to blip the throttle a bit when you downshift, so you're in essence doing a heel-toe but with a smaller blip right?

D
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Old 05-10-2001, 03:16 PM   #9
Xen
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Can someone point me to a good site to be edumecated on Double Clutching?

Thanks!
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Old 05-10-2001, 03:56 PM   #10
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Heel and Toe can be done without double clutching just fine on a synchro tranny. All heel and toeing is for is for braking and down shifting at the same time. It allows you to be in the correct gear by the time you are ready to put the juice to it while cornering.

When you double clutch, it saves wear on your synchros in a synchro tranny. Or in the case of an unsynchronized tranny it is actually necessary for a downshift to occur. To learn to double clutch, take your time. It's not about speed at first. After all, if you have a synchro tranny it isn't even necessary. Shift slowly at first, and pay attention to what you are doing. Speed will come naturally.

First try it without heeling and toeing, keep it simple. Find a nice open stretch of road, with nobody behind you. Cruise up to about 4000 or so rpm in 3rd or 4th (depends on where you are), let off the throttle, push the clutch in. Next move the shift lever to neutral. Blip the throttle, while letting the clutch out... the shifter is still in neutral. If you were turning 4000 rpm when you disengaged the clutch, you want to blip the throttle up to about 5000 rpm. As soon as the tack swings past 5000 rpm (or whatever your desired rpm is.. more on this later) push the clutch in and push the lever into the next lower gear. Once again blip the throttle to match the engine speed with what the engine should be turning for the speed and gear the car is in. Let the clutch out. repeat for the next down shift.

There are a couple of things you are looking for, and a couple of things that change what rpm you want to be at. Gear ratios for different cars mean different target rpms. A rough guess that should get you close for most vehicles is 1000 rpm between gears. Another thing that effects the target rpm is how fast the car is deccelerating. If you are hard on the brakes you will probably only need about 500 rpms between shifts, since the output shaft is going to be slowing down with the wheels.

How will you know when you nail the downshift. On a synchro tranny, it's a bit hard to tell, but you will feel no resistance at all on the gear shift lever. The lever will almost suck itself into the next lower gear. On a non synchro tranny you will know because it won't grind. If you don't care about saving your synchros forever, and don't think you will ever get or have to drive a non synchro tranny, then I wouldn't worry about double clutching. But if you are an enthusiest and want to practice old world and race car driving techniques then I recommend it. Take it slow and easy.
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Old 05-10-2001, 04:46 PM   #11
UCI_Scott
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Going Faster : Mastering the Art of Race Driving : The Skip Barber Racing School

<IMG SRC="http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0837602270.01.LZZZZZZZ.gif" border=0>

This book is a fantastic resource. Physical shifting technique is just one of thousands of tidbits inside. It explains the hows and the whys for, well, everything.

Great learning technique: do everything deliberately in slow motion, separating out all the components of the physical act into discrete motions. Only after the sequence becomes natural do you start to work on doing it faster.

--scott
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Old 05-10-2001, 06:15 PM   #12
DN
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Double clutching is simply shifting twice for each gear change.1st to neutral then to the desired gear.I don't do it in synchro equiped cars because that's what they're for,to make life easier.It would also take all the fun out of driving.I do usually blip the throttle when downshifting to match revs as mentioned in posts above.Blipping the throttle with the side of your foot while braking is heel and toeing.
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Old 05-10-2001, 06:22 PM   #13
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when i first started to learn to double clutch. i just try not to think heel toe or rev match... and i do it while i am just coasting.. just 4th.. neutural.. clutch out.. blip, clutch in.. 3rd.. then i started to rev match with that... double clutch is nessacary only from 2nd to 1st shift in my car in autoX.. so i rarely use it.
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Old 05-10-2001, 06:22 PM   #14
death_blossom
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wow, this is all quite confusing reading this. must be because i can't drive a stick .

now I understand the heel-toe shifting technique, but this double-clutching thing is confusing me. they both essentially accomplish the same thing right? downshifting w/o upsetting the weight balance of a car when entering a turn?
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Old 05-10-2001, 06:44 PM   #15
hsolo
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Heel-toe driving accomplishes the same thing as double clutching with a syncro.......just faster
Take it from an ex-go-cart champ....heel-toe driving is the only way to ride
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Old 05-10-2001, 06:47 PM   #16
Prostho
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NO.. heel toe and double clutch is complete different thing.......
http://www.happytogether.com/318ti/n...ing/index.html

[This message has been edited by Prostho (edited May 10, 2001).]
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Old 05-10-2001, 06:50 PM   #17
Blindeye_03
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double clutching and heel-toeing is very easy, just give it some time...Practice slowly and you will naturally get faster + by going SLOWER you wont grind gears...Ive been driving my stick impreza for 2months now and its my FIRST stick & I heel-toe and Double Clutch every chance I get on the road...to me the road is a big race track, just dont speed TOO high
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Old 05-10-2001, 06:52 PM   #18
DN
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Save the double clutching for tractor trailers.Any truck driving school will teach it because they don't have synchronized transmissions.

David
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