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Old 06-09-2005, 12:31 AM   #1
janikphoto
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Default stainless steel lines?!?

I noticed some cracking in the brake line at my drivers side. The passenger side looked almost new. These several small hairline cracks worry me and I would have the dealer replace them under warrantee if the car was actually still under warrantee. Unfortunately, 5 years and 58k miles is out of warrantee for brakes...

So, are these hairline cracks something I should worry about with new rubber lines, or should I just go all out with the stainless steel lines?!? I think they have outback lines now... So, who has the SS lines and think they were worth it?!?
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Old 06-09-2005, 01:04 AM   #2
iON Performance Inc
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janikphoto - the BE/BH's require a 6line brake kit. Replacing them w/ OEM lines will be just as expensive if not more then a good quality SS line kit.

Brakes are the most important safety component of a car, don't skimp. We've seen many rubber line failures due to wear. Bite the bullet now and then you'll have peace of mind.
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Old 06-09-2005, 01:39 AM   #3
spdracr00
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iON how much are your SS line kits? i got a 99legacy i was thinking bout upgrading...
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Old 06-09-2005, 11:58 AM   #4
KD7000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iON Performance Inc
Brakes are the most important safety component of a car, don't skimp. We've seen many rubber line failures due to wear. Bite the bullet now and then you'll have peace of mind.
What you are saying is theoretically true- but there are planty of people who have put 150,000++ miles on their cars, and never had to touch the stock brake lines.

Some kind of line failure on a 2001 with only 58k is extremely unusual. Stock brake lines, on a street driven car, should never "wear out" at that kind of mileage.

(Not that I don't like stainless lines- I put some on my old '97 Leg GT. But that's just 'cause I was looking to upgrade stuff. The stock lines, with well over 100,000 salty New England miles on 'em, appeared to be just fine.)

-Brian
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Old 06-09-2005, 12:42 PM   #5
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spdracr00 - Drop us a PM for price. Do you have F&R discs or F discs and rear drums?

KD7000 - You definately have to check out some cars here in Canada. We've seen blown out brake lines with cars of lower mileage. Especially on alot of the trucks. Why risk an accident when you can prevent it for a fraction of what it would cost if an accident did occur?
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Old 06-09-2005, 01:29 PM   #6
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Ion, I'm not disputing the importance of brake safety or the spiffiness of ss lines... I'm just saying, there's no reason why a stock line would "wear out" at 58k, nor is there any safety-related reason to just swap 'em for the hell of it, if the lines are in good shape.

With modern cars, brake line failure is virtually unheard of. (to the best of my knowledge) When was the last time you heard about a crash caused by that? And trucks have nothing to do with this. Can you give us some examples or pictures of all these cars that you've seen "blown-out" lines on?

Your commentary comes across as rather alarmist, as if we all better swap out for stainless lines, or we'll die in a fiery disaster.

-Brian
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Old 06-09-2005, 01:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KD7000
Your commentary comes across as rather alarmist, as if we all better swap out for ION PERFORMANCE stainless lines, or we'll die in a fiery disaster.

-Brian

edited for you
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Old 06-09-2005, 01:54 PM   #8
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KD7000 - We're not saying everyone should be changing to our SS lines; we're just saying that the brake lines should be replaced if they look like they've been compromised. Mileage of the vehicle isn't a factor to the "integrity" of the lines themselves. (Usage is) Any bubbles etc in the lines means that the inner core has been compromised; and any application of brake pressure results in fluid moving into these recesses and increasing the side of the bubbles. There've been many pickups here that are used in the oil-patch that have their lines replaced at the dealership w/ SS lines to make sure that usage wear isn't an issue.

Our point is why save a couple of bucks on NOT replacing the lines (not specifying which ones), when you're not sure as to how safe they are. It seems very pointless to us for those who spend all the money on looks etc yet neglect spending money on general maintance.
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Old 06-09-2005, 02:14 PM   #9
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Gaaaah, Ion, you're not hearing me at all. Please re-read my posts and address some of my questions.

Quote:
There've been many pickups here that are used in the oil-patch that have their lines replaced at the dealership w/ SS lines to make sure that usage wear isn't an issue.
We're not talking about trucks here, and I don't know what an "oil patch" is, or why that would subject your somewhat irrelevant trucks to unusual brake line wear & tear.

Quote:
Mileage of the vehicle isn't a factor to the "integrity" of the lines themselves. (Usage is)
Umm, on a street-driven car, mileage=usage, for the most part.

I know you're here to sell parts, and I have no problem with that. I've purchased and installed stainless lines, and I liked 'em. And of course a defective or worn out line should be replaced. I would never argue against that. And for janikphoto to go with stainless replacement lines instead of OEM is perfectly ok as well...

I just think you need to ease up on the alarmist commentary.

-Brian
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Old 06-09-2005, 02:24 PM   #10
Teh Legacy
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The point iON is trying to make is that lines have been known to break. It's common knowledge. He's not really trying to sell his goods, but just trying to help educate the masses in the fact that OEM lines are just as expensive as SS lines, but SS lines are bett4r, both performance and safety-wise.

/Jonathan
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Old 06-09-2005, 02:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97legacygt
The point iON is trying to make is that lines have been known to break. It's common knowledge.
Well, I disagree. Sure, it has happened, but I can't find any evidence of brake line failure on a street driven car being any kind of widespread problem. Hell, I searched the NHTSA site, and couldn't find anything at all.

Once again, I'm not arguing against purchasing stainless lines, nor am I arguing against their merits. Please don't oversimplify this discussion.

-Brian
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Old 06-09-2005, 03:18 PM   #12
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KD7000 - for street driven vehicles, car (a) and car (b) in 2 different places will not see the same component wear eventhough their the same mileage. So you cannot equate mileage to component wear.

If a vehicle is stored, and no mileage is accumlated, oxidation of rubber and corrosion within the brake lines still occur; though not as rapid as through normal usage.

All we're saying is that if you do see this wear, you should replace the lines. It's as simple as that. Whether or not its replaced with OEM or SS lines that's not the issue; the issue is that items should be replaced if you suspect/see wear. Why bother having something in the back of your mind worring you about your safety? Peace of mind is highly valued, so is life. Why risk something when you have the power to change it? It's analogous to the concept of driving under influence. If you can prevent that from happening, why don't you?

Here in N. America there is too much neglect on maintence of vehicles. Over in Germany, it is manditory to do a brake system flush ever year. TUV requires that any items that show visible signs of wear to be replaced, or your registration will not be renewed. This is a proactive approach to safety.
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Old 06-09-2005, 05:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iON Performance Inc
All we're saying is that if you do see this wear, you should replace the lines. It's as simple as that.
Alas, that's not "all that you said." Try reading your own posts- you were cleary suggesting that there is some inherent flaw with stock lines, and that we ought to just be swapping them out for the hell of it. Brake lines, which of course are a safety item and should be inspected for condition, are most definately not part of "general maintenance" as you said. One does not simply swap them out under any preventative maintenance plan I've ever heard of.

You're being nitpicky about mileage vs. wear. Mileage is the only indicator of brake usage on a daily driver, so what else could you possibly utilize for comparison's sake? And we're discussing street driven vehicles- we were never talking about a car that was in storage. You keep introducing random and irrelevant scenarios here to try to justify something. I have no idea why.

You clearly know a good bit about brakes, but enough already. Please don't twist my words and try to claim I'm uninterested in safety, or think that brakes should be ignored...

-Brian
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Old 06-09-2005, 05:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KD7000
I know you're here to sell parts, and I have no problem with that. I've purchased and installed stainless lines, and I liked 'em. And of course a defective or worn out line should be replaced. I would never argue against that. And for janikphoto to go with stainless replacement lines instead of OEM is perfectly ok as well...

I just think you need to ease up on the alarmist commentary.
Quoting myself so it doesn't get missed.
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Old 06-11-2005, 12:15 AM   #15
janikphoto
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Well, I have never seen so many hairline cracks on any brake lines on any cars (or trucks) that i have owned so early in mileage before. my point was that i've seen cracks in the brake lines before, but that was on my 66 VW bus and my mazda truck that had 198,000 miles on it. This car only has the cracks on the driver's side front line and only has 58,000 miles on it. That was my point. I will get ss lines, but since i can get them from dallas subaru (hotsubaru.com) I can use my subaru bucks from my chase card and just walk in and pick them up. sorry ion for not getting the sale, but you will be seeing some of my money when you get a carbon fiber hood with scoop for my car!!!
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Old 06-11-2005, 01:30 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janikphoto
you will be seeing some of my money when you get a carbon fiber hood with scoop for my car!!!
Ditto!
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Old 07-23-2005, 01:55 PM   #17
subiekid
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Bumping this up for a question.

I am about to install 02 WRX brakes on my car. Should I get SS lines for the WRX or for the Legacy?
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Old 07-23-2005, 11:14 PM   #18
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subiekid - You'll need Legacy lines. The WRX lines will not work properly.
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Old 07-24-2005, 03:02 AM   #19
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WRX Lines work fine... Especially if you've got WRX Struts on your legacy. The only difference being the way they mount to the struts (WRX lines bolt to the strut instead of clipping on to the strut like all 1990-1999 legacy's do)
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Old 07-24-2005, 12:57 PM   #20
subiekid
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So the bango fitting and the other end fitting are the same? I thought the wrx brakes would have different bango fittings.

I guess I will just get the lines for the Legacy. Thanks for the help.
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