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Old 06-16-2005, 02:12 AM   #1
buyos1717
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Default $2000 will get you about how much hp?

I feel a little upset that my car feels sluggish compared to other cars. I know im probably feeling a lot less horsepower because im pulling 4 wheels rather then the common two. But i need to know, what can i get and how much would it cost to be able to match.... oh something like a RSX-S? Im not asking for 300 hp or anything But im pretty new to tuning engines and i was thinking CAI - H - E, Lightweight pulleys, and ..... My list stops because in terms of power i dont know what to get rather then stepping up and buying an ECU. In terms of power and reliability, what should i look for? Please forgive the noob but i love my car and i want it to last and have fun with it Im still enjoying it after all
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Old 06-16-2005, 02:51 AM   #2
atmosphere
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Why n00b don't WRX?
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Old 06-16-2005, 03:01 AM   #3
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if i was going to spend 2k on power, i'd do cams and EQ headers, with a cheap catback and intake.

that would be about 2k and it would get you near 200 at the crank, give or take 10 hp.


then again, 2k is an awful lot to put into the engine of an RS without doing suspension first.
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Old 06-16-2005, 11:04 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buyos1717
I feel a little upset that my car feels sluggish compared to other cars. I know im probably feeling a lot less horsepower because im pulling 4 wheels rather then the common two. But i need to know, what can i get and how much would it cost to be able to match.... oh something like a RSX-S? Im not asking for 300 hp or anything But im pretty new to tuning engines and i was thinking CAI - H - E, Lightweight pulleys, and ..... My list stops because in terms of power i dont know what to get rather then stepping up and buying an ECU. In terms of power and reliability, what should i look for? Please forgive the noob but i love my car and i want it to last and have fun with it Im still enjoying it after all
If you think you are going to run an RSX type-s in an RS for $2k, i think you are going to have a hard time finding parts that cheap to do it. Type-S is 210hp and RS is 165hp. Plus the Type-S is also 125lb. lighter. Given it only has 143 lb./ft at 7000 RPM, but the type-s would still probably take you once he got the engine up to speed.
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Old 06-16-2005, 11:28 AM   #5
Kevin Thomas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buyos1717
I feel a little upset that my car feels sluggish compared to other cars. I know im probably feeling a lot less horsepower because im pulling 4 wheels rather then the common two. But i need to know, what can i get and how much would it cost to be able to match.... oh something like a RSX-S? Im not asking for 300 hp or anything
Are you talking about to the wheels or to the crank hp? Realize that with AWD, you have 30% of power lost to the wheels. I'm assuming you want the same amount of hp to wheels rather than the crank because at the same hp at the crank will not cut it. You can achieve that with intake, exhaust, equal length header and cams.

For the price you are talking, you will have to purchase a used turbokit. They are around.
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Old 06-16-2005, 01:10 PM   #6
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Kevin,
He doesn't have to get a turbo kit. If he can do his own wrenching, he can get cams within his $2000 budget. Half of the price of cams for most people is the $500 in labor. It really depends on his skill set. Or, if he doesn't want to spend the $1000 for Cobb headers, be can get one of the cheaper versions for +/-$400. If he goes that route, he could still afford the $1000 for cams in his $2000 budget...
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Old 06-16-2005, 02:58 PM   #7
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that's what i'm saying, cept i didn't give my reasoning. thanks matt.
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Old 06-16-2005, 05:19 PM   #8
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I was actually hoping for 200 hp at the wheels but that doesnt sound too plausible with what is being said . However, my uncle owns a garage so the cams can probably be done. BUT, i dont understand... How would these cams be different? it just runs the engine at optimum levels or something? i think i read about it before but doesnt that mean that the reliability issue would plummet? Why wouldnt it come at optimum level from the factory in the first place? Thanks for the replies though!
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Old 06-16-2005, 05:23 PM   #9
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If half the price of cams is labor, you're saying $1000 is resonable for the full labor cost.. what's that expected in shoptime, as labor prices vary. Might be easier to shop around for the place to get them done if you have a better idea of how many hours it should take the mechanic to do it. (5hrs at 100/hour or 10hrs at 50/hour - you see where I'm going with this).
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Old 06-16-2005, 05:42 PM   #10
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now that we're on the subject of cams, i have a little bit of a simple question, If i get cams do i ABSOLUTELY need the spring/reatiners?
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Old 06-16-2005, 05:49 PM   #11
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NO, I am saying that most people look at cams as a $1000 expense, as labor is generally around $500! Figure 6-8 billable hours. If they are going beyond that, they don't know how to work on these cars and you should keep shopping...

buyos,
There isn't a single NA Impreza that is making 200whp. I am making 138whp, and that calculates to 225Chp. Of course even that is misleading because when I had less power and was on a different type of dyno, I was making 151whp.

Cams from the factory are optimised for emissions and fuel economy. Those things do not go hand in hand with performance. And if you are worried about reliability, then stick to the bolt ons and accept the fact that your car will never have more than 185-190HP AT THE CRANK. Look up BSFC.

I think you need to hit your search button a whole bunch and start reading up...
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Old 06-16-2005, 05:52 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buyos1717
I was actually hoping for 200 hp at the wheels but that doesnt sound too plausible with what is being said . However, my uncle owns a garage so the cams can probably be done. BUT, i dont understand... How would these cams be different? it just runs the engine at optimum levels or something? i think i read about it before but doesnt that mean that the reliability issue would plummet? Why wouldnt it come at optimum level from the factory in the first place? Thanks for the replies though!
Dude, stock WRX aren't even getting 200 awhp
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Old 06-16-2005, 05:56 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buyos1717
I was actually hoping for 200 hp at the wheels but that doesnt sound too plausible with what is being said
A stock WRX makes 145-155 hp at the wheels, sometimes a bit more with a generous dyno (4EAT makes less, say 135 whp). It takes a WRX around $1k to $2k (give or take) of modifications (less if used) to get it to 200 hp at the wheels. More $$ if it's a 4EAT.
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Old 06-16-2005, 06:10 PM   #14
Matt Monson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caplin 2.5
now that we're on the subject of cams, i have a little bit of a simple question, If i get cams do i ABSOLUTELY need the spring/reatiners?
Nope. Some vendors will tell you otherwise, but unless you have a 7500+ rpm redline, you will not float your valves on stock springs...
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Old 06-16-2005, 06:26 PM   #15
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Listen to Matt, he has probably one of the most built N/As on here. Search for threads on his build. Lots of good info, dyno plots and such. Reading those should get you a good idea of how much work/money/time your going to have to put in to this. And since you sound like your in the mindset I was in when I first got my car, I think reading of his build will talk you out of that large of a project. Do the bolt on mods, headers, exhaust, pulleys, flywhell and tune up the suspension and I think youll find like me, that the car becomes very fun to drive(FYI, I only have headers and catback and CAI). Too bad your not from a snowy part of the country, you appreciate the fact that you can drive spiritedly all year, when those RSXs are driving like grannies or garaged.
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Old 06-16-2005, 06:53 PM   #16
Tim Sanderson
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Unless you plan on straight bolt ons you can probably kiss half of it away for installation labor.

On the other hand, you can do the basic stuff yourself and get the most out of the 2 grand. You won't see the power you want but you'll have plenty of neat things to look at when you open the hood.

You must study the way of the hyena(section8). He is a bargain hunting master. I've see and installed most of the parts he's helped away from people and you'd drop your jaw if you knew how much he paid. So, keep one eye in the for sale forum, and the other eye in your local forum "locals first dibs" stuff.
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Old 06-16-2005, 07:29 PM   #17
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for $2G i'd get a wrx engine. that's an easy 230hp right there.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33615

JDM WRX engine for $650 buy it now. so you have money left over for unforseen parts and install if you don't want to do it yourself.
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Old 06-16-2005, 08:19 PM   #18
Tim Sanderson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRF582
for $2G i'd get a wrx engine. that's an easy 230hp right there.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33615

JDM WRX engine for $650 buy it now. so you have money left over for unforseen parts and install if you don't want to do it yourself.
EAsy my rear.

crossmember
ecu
harness issues
power steering line fitment
new clutch
maf sensor

You'd be close to 2 grand Maybe just for parts. Then install it and get it right.

Not a terrible option you found there though, very good price.
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Old 06-16-2005, 08:32 PM   #19
mrpedal
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FWIW, these guys itemize the swap cost and parts/labor needed. They want $3825 if you bring ALL the parts.
http://www.licmotorsports.com/conversion.htm

Sounds like a lot, but doing the wiring harness could put you in your grave...Sports Compact article on how to pop that engine right in there:
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0403scc_hybrid/
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Old 06-16-2005, 09:54 PM   #20
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True.
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Old 06-16-2005, 10:09 PM   #21
buyos1717
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Damn, well i guess 200 whp isnt going to happen. I guess i should just stick to the bolt ons then? Like i said in the beggining CAI - H - E and pulleys? I might contemplate a swap at a later time. Thanks for the input, if you wanna suggest a setup thats different then what i just mentioned, feel free to post. Im sorry i didnt catch it the first time, but i found a link that helps under "BSFC" like Matt Monson. If interested click here ---> http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...highlight=BSFC
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Old 06-16-2005, 10:23 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson
I am making 138whp, and that calculates to 225Chp. Of course even that is misleading because when I had less power and was on a different type of dyno, I was making 151whp.
225 CHP=138whp? I know I'm a noob, but isn't that like 40% drivetrain loss? If u have 225 CHP, ur probly closer to the 151 #, right?
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Old 06-16-2005, 10:25 PM   #23
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Wise move. Look around the private FS forum for used parts that could be useful to you. Equal length headers could run you 1000 right off the bat, so a slightly used piece would save you a few hundred. The header topic has been debated extensively on here, search around to learn the pros and cons. A used CAI should be fairly easy to come by, me thinks a new one is too over priced anyway. Catbacks, look for a 2.25 inched piping. Pulleys, my .02 is to stay with the stock sized lightened type, but if you dont plan on running aftermarket stereos or other things an underdriven is an option. Happy shopping.
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Old 06-16-2005, 10:50 PM   #24
Burnout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dash_Martino
225 CHP=138whp? I know I'm a noob, but isn't that like 40% drivetrain loss? If u have 225 CHP, ur probly closer to the 151 #, right?
Im pretty sure the reason why the numbers are off is because 138 is whp @5000ft. and the estimated CHP would be at sea level.
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Old 06-17-2005, 11:03 AM   #25
Matt Monson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dash_Martino
225 CHP=138whp? I know I'm a noob, but isn't that like 40% drivetrain loss? If u have 225 CHP, ur probly closer to the 151 #, right?
That number is based on our local Dynapack at 5000ft that has stock RS's at 95-100whp and stock WRX's aroung 140whp...

My previous dyno of 151 was on Cobb's Mustang dyno, also at 5000ft, where stock RS's pull 125-130whp and stock WRX's around 170whp...
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