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Old 06-21-2005, 09:23 PM   #1
offset
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Default Heads up on IWSTI.com problems

Just in case anyone hasn't heard yet, another prominent Subie forum has run into some problems.

http://iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27448

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Old 06-21-2005, 09:40 PM   #2
RadarOnPaws
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Yeah, I was wondering what would happen here. I don't know how that smaller forum caught their eye and this one hasn't.

Hope they don't come after nasioc also.
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Old 06-21-2005, 09:58 PM   #3
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So, what's the difference between a dead skunk and a dead lawyer lying in the road? There are skid marks in front of the skunk. Hwy61
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Old 06-21-2005, 10:01 PM   #4
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Sounds like their #1 issue is with the domain name not the actual site details.

Nasioc, I-club, etc. dont use domain names with trademarked properies.
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Old 06-21-2005, 10:03 PM   #5
RadarOnPaws
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Only item 4 deals with the domain name. The first 3, especially the first 2, make it clear they could be monitoring for logo/designs as well:

(1) You must immediately and permanently cease use of the WRX, SUBARU, IMPREZA and STi marks, logos, and lettering and/or any confusingly similar variation(s) and/or colorable imitation(s) thereof (including but not limited to "imprezawrxsti"), including in connection with the offering and/or provision of any services and/or the sale and/or offering for sale of any goods;

(2) You must also immediately cease and/or not commence use (as the case may be) of the Six-Star Cluster Design and any confusingly similar variation(s) and/or colorable imitation(s) thereof;


But you are right, it's probably because of the domain name.

Last edited by RadarOnPaws; 06-21-2005 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 06-21-2005, 10:05 PM   #6
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they said in the post that they are NOT coming after NASIOC. Too bad for iws...
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Old 06-21-2005, 10:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04RCSTI
they said in the post that they are NOT coming after NASIOC. Too bad for iws...
No, it was Ben's words regarding nasioc:

The new website address for the forums will be www.iwsti.com which we feel does not infringe upon Fuji Heavy Industries' intellectual property rights in any way. We certainly feel that if "nasioc, clubwrx, or i-club" are acceptable that there should be absolutely no problem with "iwsti.

Fuji Industries didn't comment on nasioc one way or the other.

But Kostamojen is right, they probably won't come after nasioc.

The funny thing is, North America Subaru Owner's Club sounds more official than imprezawrxsti.com does.
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Old 06-21-2005, 10:19 PM   #8
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What a bunch of dicks! The Subaru fan clubs are the reason they have a market for their high-margin performance cars and parts. Without the fan network they have nothing. Screw them. If that's how they are going to treat us, it will be a cold day in hell I buy another Subaru.
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Old 06-21-2005, 10:22 PM   #9
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Subaru should be paying Nasioc and IWS for all of the cars they help them sell....BAD MOVE SUBARU
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Old 06-21-2005, 10:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoolinU
Subaru should be paying Nasioc and IWS for all of the cars they help them sell....BAD MOVE SUBARU
I figured if even 3/4 of the IWSTI members had purchased sti's (probably higher) they've spent almost $194,000,000 on subaru cars over the two model years ('04 and '05).

They do have the right to keep their trademarks from being infringed on, but claiming that the site clearly intended to deceive people leaves a rather sour taste as it's clearly NOT the case.
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Old 06-22-2005, 01:36 AM   #11
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Evo IV mr is starting to look better and better.

I wounder if this will make the news like the lawyer/security service fiasco they had last year.

Good showing subaru...
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Old 06-22-2005, 02:03 AM   #12
teh sash
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sad,,,
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Old 06-22-2005, 08:41 AM   #13
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i have to say, being on both sides of the alleged trademark infringement fence, that it does suck, but what is really the problem is advertising on the website and the associated revenue generated from it. if it were purely a non-commercial website, the argument that its non infringing would be much stronger.

another issue to consider on subaru's part: lack of enforcement with respect to one's trademarks could result in putative abandonment of a registered trademark.

to be honest, i'm surprised these trademark enforcement attempts are not more prevalent on the Internet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by offset
Just in case anyone hasn't heard yet, another prominent Subie forum has run into some problems.

http://iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27448

offset
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Old 06-22-2005, 08:54 AM   #14
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You know, with all this FHI complaining that someone might get confused as far as T-shirts (it's not like imprezawrxsti will start rolling STi's off the assembly line anytime soon..), one has to wonder what are they ready to do on the POSITIVE side..
How about an FHI engineer officially posting on these forums to help clear out technical problems?
How about FHI caring about their fans and customers and actually writing every now and then a posting about their future intentions and designs.
How about Unabomber interviewing Zapatinas the same way he did with vendors.. It can be done over the net, you know...

They're quick to take, but not fast to give..

Vlad
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Old 06-22-2005, 10:44 AM   #15
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I predict that since STi is still, intentionally, a prominent part of their iwsti.com's doman name, Subaru's trademark lawyers will NOT be placated by the domain name change. The folks who run iwsti.com are taking a BIG chance with that because if Subaru takes them to court for cybersquatting, they could be forced to pay $100,000. Also, iwsti continues to use Subaru's trademarks within its metatags, which is likely also a trademark infringement.

Porsche went after all the websites using Porsche logos and trademarks in the early 90s and that didn't stop people from admiring and buying Porsches.

Last edited by Jon [in CT]; 06-22-2005 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 06-22-2005, 11:27 AM   #16
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What about www.impreza.net? Impreza.net = www.nasioc.com
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Old 06-22-2005, 11:58 AM   #17
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Several things here... First, by US law, an acronym can not be trademarked. The was the entire legal debate over Windows NT meaning "New Technology" no wait... It means nothing. STI is an acronym, and is prevented from trademarking, but the logo can still be trademarked. (No one ever said US law made sense)

Under US law, you must aggressively defend trademark to keep it. Nasty letters are one way to show aggressive defense. Letters giving permission for use are another.

Last, under US law (well I live here, someone else can quote South African law) you can use any trade marked name for descriptive purposes, but not for a name. Hence you can say "My Ford sucks" any time, but not name a site FordSucks.com

I think NASIOC is safe as no trademarked names are used in the title except as descriptions. The "Owners" is a key point here. The name itself distances us from FHI.
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:03 PM   #18
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I think they don't care about the american market, They put all the tight stuff on JDM STi's for years leaving us with nothing untill 04.
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:47 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bofh
First, by US law, an acronym can not be trademarked.
FHI has registered DCCD as a trademark and FHI always explains that it means Driver Controlled Center Differential. FHI has applied for registration of S.S.H.E.V (it lacks only a Statement of Use from FHI to be fully registered) and FHI always explains that S.S.H.E.V means Sequential Series Hybrid Electric Vehicle.
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Old 06-22-2005, 12:48 PM   #20
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Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act, Section 43(d) of the Lanham Act.

What the hell kind of language is that - I hate lawyers !

Subaru should be thankfuk to have such loyal fans!

Last edited by engineerx; 06-22-2005 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 06-22-2005, 01:24 PM   #21
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that's not true. think of AOL, better known as america online. acronyms can be federally registered, in addition to common law trademark rights vesting by use in trade without any registration whatsoever.

also, myfordsucks and fordsucks are quite similar and the user of the domain would be seeking first amendment or fair use grounds to use the trademarks. in cases like these, infringement will rest more in the way the site is being used. for example, if myfordsucks contains ads for gm and subaru cars and the website owner is receiving compensation for those ads, the website would most likely be found infringing since they are using it for commercial gain, notwithstanding first amendment or fair use defenses.

starting to sound like an IP treatise. ugh

Quote:
Originally Posted by bofh
Several things here... First, by US law, an acronym can not be trademarked. The was the entire legal debate over Windows NT meaning "New Technology" no wait... It means nothing. STI is an acronym, and is prevented from trademarking, but the logo can still be trademarked. (No one ever said US law made sense)

Under US law, you must aggressively defend trademark to keep it. Nasty letters are one way to show aggressive defense. Letters giving permission for use are another.

Last, under US law (well I live here, someone else can quote South African law) you can use any trade marked name for descriptive purposes, but not for a name. Hence you can say "My Ford sucks" any time, but not name a site FordSucks.com

I think NASIOC is safe as no trademarked names are used in the title except as descriptions. The "Owners" is a key point here. The name itself distances us from FHI.
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Old 06-22-2005, 01:41 PM   #22
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i hope they dont get us too
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Old 06-22-2005, 02:10 PM   #23
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I have a t-shirt with an STi emblem, you think they will come to my hood and sue me? hahah LOL
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Old 06-22-2005, 02:34 PM   #24
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They won't get us.
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Old 06-22-2005, 02:53 PM   #25
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All the lawyer bashing in this thread is funny. ImprezaWRXSTi got in trouble because they used multiple registered trademarks for their own benefit. They sold t-shirts, bumper stickers, and vendor status all based on the Subaru copyrighted material. Subaru has a long standing policy that you can use their trademarked logos and stuff for
non profit use.
ImprezaWRXSTi clearly isn't following the rules. NASIOC is on a touchy middle ground. Of course the name Impreza and other trade marked names are thrown around here, but all of NASIOC logos are original artwork.

chris619
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Full_Clip thought ImprezaWRXSTi was a little to ricey anyway.
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